DOJ busts dozens in massive college admission cheating scheme

[woolfe9998]

I think the whole idea that you should be punished more harshly for defending yourself is a very dangerous one. It’s one of the reasons plea bargains are already so fucked - they say if you plea we will give you one year but if you go to trial (as is your right) we will go for 20.

Or you go to trial and get acquitted and face no penalty. That is, if you really aren't guilty or otherwise have a valid legal defense. The deck is stacked in favor of defendants at trial, with the prosecution facing a high burden of proof. Even guilty ones can get off, let alone the innocent who, in spite of well known exceptions, are rarely convicted.

But these people are guilty and they know it. Instead of fessing up and taking responsibility as most of the others did, they chose to, what, gamble for an acquittal in spite of their guilt, but took a year to realize that even their expensive lawyers couldn't get them out of it? And wasted more public resources, i.e. tax payer dollars, along the way.

I agree that the plea system is problematic, at least on the occasions where it may encourage an innocent person to plead guilty to something they didn't do. But that was not the case here. And as it stands, they didn't suffer any greater penalty than the people who stepped up and did the right thing from the start.

 

[interchange]

Here's my position:

1. They should get punishment which is in keeping with punishments that non-affluent people get for the same crimes
2. Whether they treat the charges with contempt should not affect the punishment received if convicted
3. If they do act with contempt, I think this should absolutely affect willingness to offer a plea or favorability of plea offered
4. I think, in general, the punishments for these crimes for all people is too harsh

I would like to speak more to #2. It is nigh impossible to be empathetic to a person who acts with contempt toward you. This removes the moral dissonance we feel when seeking to treat them with contempt and punish them harshly in return. Because we are absolved from feeling that conflict does not necessarily mean it is right to act differently. Treating a person with contempt in return has a function socially. It is a wedging function -- tribalism. In situations which are always tragic (e.g. war), it is clearly necessary. Otherwise, have we not advanced enough as a species to consider whether the inclinations of our natures here are worth putting aside? Maybe it would be best start with what we hope to achieve with our punishments of a contemptuous person before deciding to act.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I think the whole idea that you should be punished more harshly for defending yourself is a very dangerous one. It’s one of the reasons plea bargains are already so fucked - they say if you plea we will give you one year but if you go to trial (as is your right) we will go for 20.

Because they generally give you a damn good idea of all the evidence and information that they will present if a trial will occur.

From there - you should be able to tell if it is benefitial to go to trial or not. If you're guilty (which in the case of these were FUCKING obvious from the start).... with tons of witnesses...other people (including the mastermind) pleading guilty... You're fucked. You know you're fucked.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get a trial obviously, but there is a huge distinct difference between when someone knows they are guilty and they are just using this as a means to drag things out. To that I say - fuck em.

 

[hal2kilo]

Because they generally give you a damn good idea of all the evidence and information that they will present if a trial will occur.

From there - you should be able to tell if it is benefitial to go to trial or not. If you're guilty (which in the case of these were FUCKING obvious from the start).... with tons of witnesses...other people (including the mastermind) pleading guilty... You're fucked. You know you're fucked.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get a trial obviously, but there is a huge distinct difference between when someone knows they are guilty and they are just using this as a means to drag things out. To that I say - fuck em.

You must really hate Trump then.

 

[allisolm]

I was under the impression that her girls knew what they were doing and that they posed for videos/pictures to present themselves as athletes. If they knew what was going on then how are they not accomplices in this?

I certainly don't know this to be true, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the prosecutors used possible charges against the girls as leverage for the guilty plea.

 

[dud]

Ridiculous. You think that is having to pay?

When you fuck up in life - and you play the "I'm not telling game" - which means wasting over a year and TONS of peoples time in courts, lawyers/prosecutors, etc... Then the tab for a celebrity should be in the millions.

Jail time should be in years. Ideally 2+ years.

If you want the easy route (2 months of jail and some peanuts of $150k fine) then you should have plead guilty to begin with.

In a perfect world perhaps this is the way it should be. We live in a VERY imperfect world so this was a negotiated settlement, acceptable to both the prosecution AND the defense. For years I wrestled with the injustice of our "justice" system. This is basically a HARD slap on the wrist. They paid a huge price for their misstep, perhaps too light of a penalty but at least they admitted some guilt.

The moment that you accept that our "justice" system is a GAME is the moment you come to grip with legal reality in this country. If you have never been to court ... GO to court and sit and watch the proceedings. The whole process is a trainwreck ... presided over by the chief clown ... the judge.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Another slap on the wrist for garbage celebrities with money.

Lori Loughlin sentenced to 2 months in prison. Husband sentenced to 5 months.

Oh, and HOW BOUT DAT patriarchy in our courtrooms?

Lori Loughlin apologizes for college scam as actress, husband get prison sentences

"Full House" actress Lori Loughlin and her fashion designer husband Mossimo Giannulli were sentenced on Friday to respective prison terms of two months and five months for participating in a vast U.S. college admissions fraud scheme.

www.reuters.com

 

[hal2kilo]

Surprised they are spending one second in jail. Don't worry, be happy.

 

[fskimospy]

To this day I'm not sure why they didn't take the standard way to bribe a college and just make a huge donation. Colleges aren't stupid, if you're a big donor they will let your idiot kid in.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

To this day I'm not sure why they didn't take the standard way to bribe a college and just make a huge donation. Colleges aren't stupid, if you're a big donor they will let your idiot kid in.

Because they didn't want to pay the "standard way"... which is multiple millions.

Which is absolutely fine. It's legal. It isn't lying. And ultimately, it helps the school with other students. It helps produce more facilities for other people to prosper.

This does none of that.

 

[Moonbeam]

Think of how much more of a punishment it is for entitled people too suffer the indignity of prison than it is for just ordinary people. Two months would be like 10 years for Joe Blow off the street.

Perhaps if progressives can ever get into power it might be time to review our legal system. Maybe, just wondering out loud, if lawyer fees, both prosecutors and defenders should be chosen and paid for by the court rather than by the litigants.

 

[fskimospy]

Because they didn't want to pay the "standard way"... which is multiple millions.

Which is absolutely fine. It's legal. It isn't lying. And ultimately, it helps the school with other students. It helps produce more facilities for other people to prosper.

This does none of that.

I guess as I'm maybe not up on the college admissions game and maybe to universities like USC that are super rich $500k isn't enough but I don't know - I suspect a couple six figure donations would get the attention of administrators.

 

[Muse]

Think of how much more of a punishment it is for entitled people too suffer the indignity of prison than it is for just ordinary people. Two months would be like 10 years for Joe Blow off the street.

Perhaps if progressives can ever get into power it might be time to review our legal system. Maybe, just wondering out loud, if lawyer fees, both prosecutors and defenders should be chosen and paid for by the court rather than by the litigants.

"The only justice in the halls of justice is in the halls." - Lenny Bruce

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Think of how much more of a punishment it is for entitled people too suffer the indignity of prison than it is for just ordinary people. Two months would be like 10 years for Joe Blow off the street.

Perhaps if progressives can ever get into power it might be time to review our legal system. Maybe, just wondering out loud, if lawyer fees, both prosecutors and defenders should be chosen and paid for by the court rather than by the litigants.

I would agree if it were... ACTUAL prison... you know, like the ones that Joe blow goes to for 10 years? Yeah, those.

Nope - instead, they go to specific ones for non-violent offenders that are lax security - and basically lets them live a nice cushy life.

What we know about Otisville, the federal prison for white-collar and D-list scoundrels where Michael Cohen is due to report

“The Situation” and the Fyre Festival fraudster are already there. President Donald Trump’s former lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen, is up next. It’s not reality TV. It&#8217…

www.chicagotribune.com

 

[Maxima1]

I think the whole idea that you should be punished more harshly for defending yourself is a very dangerous one. It’s one of the reasons plea bargains are already so fucked - they say if you plea we will give you one year but if you go to trial (as is your right) we will go for 20.

A big problem isn't even the time in the slammer. It's how felonies and even misdemeanors have severe consequences afterwards like fucking with your lifetime earning potential.

Anyway, the standard at trial isn't beyond a shadow of a doubt, so there's already some that could possibly be not guilty. What percent do you think are pleading guilty to crimes they haven't committed in net as a result? Should resources be expended on that? Even if we saw a minor drop in those pleading guilty, that would overwhelm the courts for the same quality of trial and rights to appeal etc.. Where is that on the priority list? Low, mid, high? Because the list on things to do is long...

 

[DaaQ]

Because they generally give you a damn good idea of all the evidence and information that they will present if a trial will occur.

From there - you should be able to tell if it is benefitial to go to trial or not. If you're guilty (which in the case of these were FUCKING obvious from the start).... with tons of witnesses...other people (including the mastermind) pleading guilty... You're fucked. You know you're fucked.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get a trial obviously, but there is a huge distinct difference between when someone knows they are guilty and they are just using this as a means to drag things out. To that I say - fuck em.

Maybe if you have enough money to hire a lawyer to begin with. They don't have to be honest with you during a plea deal in regards to what evidence they have. During discovery I believe they do, but we're talking Joe Schmos here.

 

[Mai72]

I would agree if it were... ACTUAL prison... you know, like the ones that Joe blow goes to for 10 years? Yeah, those.

Nope - instead, they go to specific ones for non-violent offenders that are lax security - and basically lets them live a nice cushy life.

What we know about Otisville, the federal prison for white-collar and D-list scoundrels where Michael Cohen is due to report

“The Situation” and the Fyre Festival fraudster are already there. President Donald Trump’s former lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen, is up next. It’s not reality TV. It&#8217…

www.chicagotribune.com

Yea. Life isn't fair. Lori got two months in federal. Big frekin WHOOP! If it was any of us we would be in prison for 20 years and we'd be getting to know Bubba right about now. There is a two tier justice system in America. The wealthy, and everyone else. The wealthy have the pocket change to pay for amazing high tier lawyers. What about us? Well if you have enough assets you can sell the home, car(s), cash in your 401k and tada... You'd get a light sentence like Lori but you'd be broke. The poor/middle class averag folk? They be screwed.

 

[Muse]

Yea. Life isn't fair. Lori got two months in federal. Big frekin WHOOP! If it was any of us we would be in prison for 20 years and we'd be getting to know Bubba right about now. There is a two tier justice system in America. The wealthy, and everyone else. The wealthy have the pocket change to pay for amazing high tier lawyers. What about us? Well if you have enough assets you can sell the home, car(s), cash in your 401k and tada... You'd get a light sentence like Lori but you'd be broke. The poor/middle class averag folk? They be screwed.

The guilty rich are treated far better than the innocent poor in the USA. I believe that's a fair rendering of a statement made this year by the governor of California, Gavin Newsom.
- - - -
"Irrevocable commitment to any religion is not only intellectual suicide; it is positive unfaith because it closes the mind to any new vision of the world. Faith is, above all, open-ness — an act of trust in the unknown." — Alan Watts

74 days until the big one! Vote... vote early, vote Democratic!

 

[Viper1j]

After pleading not guilty for more than a year and having moved for a dismissal of charges as recently as a couple of weeks ago, both Lori Loughlin and her husband Mossimo Giannulli have now agreed to plead guilty.

Looks like she will be sentenced to two months in prison and he will be sentenced to five months in prison as well as $150,000 fine, two years of supervised release and 100 hours of community service for her and $250,000 fine, two years of supervised release and 250 hours of community service for him.

Lori Loughlin and Mossimo Giannulli agree to plead guilty in college admissions scam | CNN

Actress Lori Loughlin and her husband, fashion designer Mossimo Giannulli, have agreed to plead guilty to conspiracy charges in connection to their role in the college admissions scam, the US Attorney's Office in the District of Massachusetts said.

www.cnn.com

And they say it's a "man's" world..

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

The guy that pushed this case got the tip of Joe's boot:

US Attorney for Massachusetts Andrew Lelling to step down, marking end of 20-year career with DOJ

“I will miss the sense of mission that comes with working for the U.S. Department of Justice," Lelling said.

www.masslive.com

"Lelling’s office oversaw a number of high-profile investigations during his tenure, including, among others, ... , the college admissions scandal — launched under the code name Operation Varsity Blues —"

 

[Greenman]

To this day I'm not sure why they didn't take the standard way to bribe a college and just make a huge donation. Colleges aren't stupid, if you're a big donor they will let your idiot kid in.

I had always thought this was the accepted method for rich folks to get their kids into Ivy League schools.

 

[Muse]

I had always thought this was the accepted method for rich folks to get their kids into Ivy League schools.

Kids should go to the schools they want to, not the ones their parents want them to go to. Self determination is fundamental to personal development and life satisfaction.

 

[Lanyap]

The guy that pushed this case got the tip of Joe's boot:

US Attorney for Massachusetts Andrew Lelling to step down, marking end of 20-year career with DOJ

“I will miss the sense of mission that comes with working for the U.S. Department of Justice," Lelling said.

www.masslive.com

"Lelling’s office oversaw a number of high-profile investigations during his tenure, including, among others, ... , the college admissions scandal — launched under the code name Operation Varsity Blues —"

Maybe this?

Massachusetts U.S. Attorney Andrew Lelling to leave at end of February

Massachusetts’ top federal prosecutor, U.S. Attorney Andrew Lelling, will resign effective at the end of the month.

www.bostonherald.com

Massachusetts’ top federal prosecutor, U.S. Attorney Andrew Lelling, will resign effective at the end of the month, meaning one of the few conservative forces in the Bay State will make way for a Democratic appointee soon.

...

Other U.S. attorneys who were appointed by former President Donald Trump — as Lelling was — have said President Biden’s administration has given them until the end of the month to clear out.

It’s normal for nearly all of the 93 U.S. Attorneys around the country to change over when a new administration comes in.

Trump’s appointee — after two years with an acting top prosecutor in place — was Lelling, a law-and-order conservative who has repeatedly decried what he recently called the push to “quote ‘defund’ unquote the police” and criminally charged a Newton judge accused of helping an illegal immigrant out the back door of her courtroom to avoid capture by immigration officials. Lelling, who was promoted from within the office, also pushed back on “sanctuary cities” and the idea of permitting injection sites for illegal drugs.

 

[Greenman]

Kids should go to the schools they want to, not the ones their parents want them to go to. Self determination is fundamental to personal development and life satisfaction.

And if your parents are loaded part of that self determination is going to the school they want you to go to, otherwise they shut off the money.

 

[pcgeek11]

Kids should go to the schools they want to, not the ones their parents want them to go to. Self determination is fundamental to personal development and life satisfaction.

Well that depends on who is making the payment. The payer gets to choose.

IMO.