Donald Trump is a reflection of every single American conservative

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
He's certainly a reflection of conservative media rhetoric. I find lack of critical self-observation a universal (though not equally distributed) trait.
Yes and the critical question in my mind is what explains it and how is it to be recognized and countered by those who have it or have it to lesser extremes. I believe that life in an altered reality is a pain avoidance mechanism employed by those who suffer, the degree of employment, the result of the degree of pain being avoided. I call this the fear of feeling what we have hidden from ourselves what we actually but thus unconsciously feel. The objective then, is not to become conscious of what we actually feel, the reason for a lack of critical self-observation. The observation that we universally avoid making is that we were controlled by our parents and by society via threat that to not behave in whatever the prescription of proper behavior is we will be thought of as disobedient, evil, worthless, shameful, you name it.

It is the fear that we are those things and will be made to feel it again that we are, that keeps us faithful to whatever morality we were taught is proper and respectful, while having none of the impulses that propel us to express those desires except by suppressing them, that causes us to live like time bombs, in a constant state of temptation to re-experience whatever desires we had to suppress aggravated by the fear that we will. We become duplicitous and turned against ourselves, fakes and pretenders.

And we do these things, had to do them to survive as children. We would have died, did die emotionally, to survive physically. No child can survive open ended constant suffering. What we were told is evil is driven underground to the unconscious where it can endlessly be triggered by anything we experience day to day.

We have become unconscious self hating machines with various degrees and various things that trigger our disease.

The only way out of this bind that I can see is to become aware of what we feel. The more accepting of the fact that we feel worthless we have, the less reality to that we will count as actually real and not just something we were told to feel. The more we understand that what we think is real is really a delusion we had to buy into, the easier it will be to change. We need that which supports real feelings of self worth, not false bravado of the ego. We need to understand that the love you take is equal to the love we make, because God, what that really means, is within us, simply buried under a ton of shit.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
The republicans did obstruct you know the same way that the democrats are now with Trumps nominations. They all do it, it just seems to have gotten worse over the fast three elections.

Bullshit. Your lying is old and tired.

There is a reason that trump and Republicans tout judicial nominations as one of his accomplishments.
 

OWR88

Senior member
Oct 27, 2013
231
73
101
A true fiscal conservative is no longer a Republican. This is true for quite some time. Not waiting to pay taxes is not a fiscal conservative, they are just cheap. Please don't confuse the two.
 

OWR88

Senior member
Oct 27, 2013
231
73
101
The Democrats have not lost contact with middle America. Democrats are going to be the savior for middle America. Unfortunately middle America is delusional and believing in any right wing conspiracy. Hillary was never going to come after their guns, but they somehow believe it.

America was not ready for the digital age. I blame it on poor education in the fly over states and hardcore religion. Perfect recipe for fascism and disaster. History does not lie.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,001
14,528
146
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-ch...gnoring-republican-obstruction-195911637.html

I don't care if you are a full blown Trump supporter, a single issue voting evangelical, a fiscally conservative socially liberal "independent" or even a libertarian. If you don't personally denounce this statement by our shithead President you are a fucking scumbag. That is all.

Well, I'm a conservative/moderate/constitutionalist/classical liberal and I whole heartedly denounce it. But then, if Trump says something you can rest assured the opposite is true anyhow.

Trump supporters and today's GOP are not conservatives anymore. They are authoritarian nationalists.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,597
29,300
136
Your title is inaccurate. Im fiscally conservative and socially in the middle (or left on some issues) and I agree Trump's statement that Obama was "complacent" is inaccurate.
Well, I'm a conservative/moderate/constitutionalist/classical liberal and I whole heartedly denounce it. But then, if Trump says something you can rest assured the opposite is true anyhow.

Trump supporters and today's GOP are not conservatives anymore. They are authoritarian nationalists.
The point of the title references the degree of ignorance required to be any kind of conservative. Even being a fiscal conservative means you just haven't been paying attention to when it is appropriate to deficit spend.

Trump's statement is the epitome of ignorance.

I will say I especially like the replies here denouncing his statement but still being triggered.

I also love how boomerang is absolutely incapable of admitting Trump said something stupid.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
The Democrats have not lost contact with middle America. Democrats are going to be the savior for middle America. Unfortunately middle America is delusional and believing in any right wing conspiracy. Hillary was never going to come after their guns, but they somehow believe it.

America was not ready for the digital age. I blame it on poor education in the fly over states and hardcore religion. Perfect recipe for fascism and disaster. History does not lie.

Well, they have lost both houses of congress, the majority of state governorships, and now the presidency. I rest my case.

I do agree with you though that social media and cable news, (ahem,,Fox) are a pox on society, at least in the way they are being used. Trump might well have lost except for the racist, nationalistic, rhetoric and "lock her up" Hillary hate kept alive by social media and cable "news".

As for "hardcore religion" I come from a very conservative Christian background, and am terribly saddened and appalled by the hate and intolerance being supported by the evangelical community. It goes 100% against the principles of love and forgiveness that should be the root of Christianity.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
Well, they have lost both houses of congress, the majority of state governorships, and now the presidency. I rest my case.
I think this is pretty complicated though.

They were slated to easily win the presidency until various shenanigans occurred by various parties that have been well described to date (FBI, comey, russia, etc)
They were also slated to win back both at least one house of congress and possibly both until again both parties (I remember reading on 538 how the odds of winning the senate back was allegedly a little over 50%). But as the presidency goes so does the houses of congress
Governorships and state houses are almost certainly due to two things: the failure of the DNC to recognize the importance of controlling stage legislatures (ie voter disenfranchisement through various means, party branding, etc) and the recognition of said importance by outside parties (ie the Koch brothers undue influence to funding small party tickets en masse) and redistricting shenanigans in 2010

The long and short of it is whilst the GOP currently is dominating nearly every level of government, I'm not sure this reflects the will of the people at large as opposed to simply the will of the a minority of active voters with geographic electoral advantages. By far, most american's align with democratic principles in general surveys and prefer democratic candidates. However, team blue has done a generally crappy job in translating their small general advantage into consistent wins. But I think your general sentiments are spot on. The democratic party currently doesn't know what it stands for and will message on and this is absolutely ridiculous.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
The point of the title references the degree of ignorance required to be any kind of conservative. Even being a fiscal conservative means you just haven't been paying attention to when it is appropriate to deficit spend.

Trump's statement is the epitome of ignorance.

I will say I especially like the replies here denouncing his statement but still being triggered.

I also love how boomerang is absolutely incapable of admitting Trump said something stupid.

What is your definition of a "conservative", and why does one have to be "ignorant" to be one? I actually support a lot of conservative principles, but certainly dont approve of what is going on in the government, and overall in our country now. But as another poster already said, our government not is not operating on conservative principles, but on "authoritarian nationalism", and being led by a highly opionated person who thrives on chaos and unpredictability.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,597
29,300
136
What is your definition of a "conservative", and why does one have to be "ignorant" to be one? I actually support a lot of conservative principles, but certainly dont approve of what is going on in the government, and overall in our country now. But as another poster already said, our government not is not operating on conservative principles, but on "authoritarian nationalism", and being led by a highly opionated person who thrives on chaos and unpredictability.
Pretty much every conservative idea is rooted in ignorance these days. Just the natural result of decades of agitprop.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
Pretty much every conservative idea is rooted in ignorance these days. Just the natural result of decades of agitprop.

If by conservative ideas ones that regard conservative values, i think you are right that the ideas are rooted in ignorance, but the values themselves are organic, genetically rooted and confer survival properties. Conservatives value justice and equality but less so than liberals, but value many things liberals fail to appreciate, things like group loyalty, respect for authority, purity, to name three. The problem, of course, is that they may value them in ignorant ways. This makes them susceptible to being manipulated by outrage ginned up by the cunning to manipulate them politically, even against their own real best interests. This is what the selfish sociopaths and worse among the 1% have done through churches and social media, Fox news and other profit orientated sources.

When Democrats engage in moral shaming of such people as deplorables, they can claim technical accuracy regarding the ignorance involved while themselves remaining ignorant themselves, that the values they disparage are of real value and in the proper context valuable for social survival.

Conservatives understand moral values better than liberals do and dismiss liberal lecturing on that subject out of hand. They instinctively recognize the super value of their belief, even though they don't realize how ignorantly they may apply them.

As long as Democrats wank on about evil conservatives, they will continue to lose elections. The argument, the political message liberals should focus on isn't on how evil real values are, but how conservative misapply those values. Take respect, for example. Respect for authority is a good thing, but only when the respect is earned.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,597
29,300
136
If by conservative ideas ones that regard conservative values, i think you are right that the ideas are rooted in ignorance, but the values themselves are organic, genetically rooted and confer survival properties. Conservatives value justice and equality but less so than liberals, but value many things liberals fail to appreciate, things like group loyalty, respect for authority, purity, to name three. The problem, of course, is that they may value them in ignorant ways. This makes them susceptible to being manipulated by outrage ginned up by the cunning to manipulate them politically, even against their own real best interests. This is what the selfish sociopaths and worse among the 1% have done through churches and social media, Fox news and other profit orientated sources.

When Democrats engage in moral shaming of such people as deplorables, they can claim technical accuracy regarding the ignorance involved while themselves remaining ignorant themselves, that the values they disparage are of real value and in the proper context valuable for social survival.

Conservatives understand moral values better than liberals do and dismiss liberal lecturing on that subject out of hand. They instinctively recognize the super value of their belief, even though they don't realize how ignorantly they may apply them.

As long as Democrats wank on about evil conservatives, they will continue to lose elections. The argument, the political message liberals should focus on isn't on how evil real values are, but how conservative misapply those values. Take respect, for example. Respect for authority is a good thing, but only when the respect is earned.
Hopefully we do keep losing elections until America can never again forget that conservatives should never be put in charge. The idea of a conservative politician will hopefully be on par with the idea of free cancer for everyone.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
The point of the title references the degree of ignorance required to be any kind of conservative. Even being a fiscal conservative means you just haven't been paying attention to when it is appropriate to deficit spend.

That statement tells me two things:

1. You're horribly wrong about what a fiscal conservative is
2. You've never made enough money to see massive amounts of taxes come out of your checks followed up by an ass pounding when you file your taxes, which makes you start to wonder "what is the government doing with all my money?"

Fiscal conservative simply means someone that wants to see the government spend not much more than it absolutely has to and to spend that money wisely. True, during an economic downturn deficit and stimulus spending can help, but a fiscal conservative wants to see the government pay down its debt, balance the budget, and perhaps, which is a pipe dream, even operate with a surplus and begin to lower taxes.

Ever took a look at your bills, found things you could eliminate that you don't actually need, found ways to spend your money more wisely to get more bang for the buck, or increase your income so you could have more money to save each month, even have a nice buffer for when times get tough?

If so, congrats, you're a fiscal conservative.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,597
29,300
136
That statement tells me two things:

1. You're horribly wrong about what a fiscal conservative is
2. You've never made enough money to see massive amounts of taxes come out of your checks followed up by an ass pounding when you file your taxes, which makes you start to wonder "what is the government doing with all my money?"

Fiscal conservative simply means someone that wants to see the government spend not much more than it absolutely has to and to spend that money wisely. True, during an economic downturn deficit and stimulus spending can help, but a fiscal conservative wants to see the government pay down its debt, balance the budget, and perhaps, which is a pipe dream, even operate with a surplus and begin to lower taxes.

Ever took a look at your bills, found things you could eliminate that you don't actually need, found ways to spend your money more wisely to get more bang for the buck, or increase your income so you could have more money to save each month, even have a nice buffer for when times get tough?

If so, congrats, you're a fiscal conservative.
I know exactly what a fiscal conservative is. It is someone who can't be grateful for what they have because they can't stop focusing on the negatives long enough to realize they pale in comparison to all the positives.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
I know exactly what a fiscal conservative is. It is someone who can't be grateful for what they have because they can't stop focusing on the negatives long enough to realize they pale in comparison to all the positives.
Well, a bigger issue, in my opinion, is that the kind of conservatives c of w is talking about don't actually exist. What conservatives mean by fiscal responsibility is not paying for a liberal social agenda but blow the wad on tax cuts and corporate welfare and a military and police state. Remember, there's a Mexican rapist and a Russian communist hiding under your bed.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
You know, I bet if we cede control to conservatives long enough we all will end up eating worms at some point.
What you share with conservatives is moral outrage. Your values have been demonized and disrespected and violated by the other side. Anger and hate and the wish to see misery and suffering of the other, are all the result of a lack of faith. There is no real, deep rooted certainty that ones own moral values are real, inalienable, and sought by those who seek truth and who know the meaning of love. It's the opposite coin of disappointment and loss. The truth is was and forever will be true. It can never be lost but it can be buried by tragedy, suffering, and emotional shit. Every day is a day in heaven but for our thinking otherwise. You have lost faith, but cling to regret in your hopeless state. If you can let go you think you will fall but I think you will actually awaken. The universe made you to love, dank.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I know exactly what a fiscal conservative is. It is someone who can't be grateful for what they have because they can't stop focusing on the negatives long enough to realize they pale in comparison to all the positives.
Jerry Brown and Charlie Baker are both fiscal conservatives
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
Sure we so. We just don’t presently have a political party to call home.
I call that virtual reality, virtue minus the reality. You have no meaningful existence, no effect of reality. I am also a fiscal conservative. But, what about the rest of my post, the part where fiscal conservatives love all kinds of authoritarian and fear based spending?

Also, I see no reason one can't stay within budget and have higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy. They are the ones who create all the nonsense about what it means to be a conservative and fiscally responsible. They mean, let us keep our money and own 90 % of all the wealth in the country. Having a few people own everything,,,,,,how is that fiscally responsible?
 

greatnoob

Senior member
Jan 6, 2014
968
395
136
What is your definition of a "conservative", and why does one have to be "ignorant" to be one? I actually support a lot of conservative principles, but certainly dont approve of what is going on in the government, and overall in our country now. But as another poster already said, our government not is not operating on conservative principles, but on "authoritarian nationalism", and being led by a highly opionated person who thrives on chaos and unpredictability.
Observe Conservatards:

 

greatnoob

Senior member
Jan 6, 2014
968
395
136
That statement tells me two things:

1. You're horribly wrong about what a fiscal conservative is
2. You've never made enough money to see massive amounts of taxes come out of your checks followed up by an ass pounding when you file your taxes, which makes you start to wonder "what is the government doing with all my money?"

Fiscal conservative simply means someone that wants to see the government spend not much more than it absolutely has to and to spend that money wisely. True, during an economic downturn deficit and stimulus spending can help, but a fiscal conservative wants to see the government pay down its debt, balance the budget, and perhaps, which is a pipe dream, even operate with a surplus and begin to lower taxes.

Ever took a look at your bills, found things you could eliminate that you don't actually need, found ways to spend your money more wisely to get more bang for the buck, or increase your income so you could have more money to save each month, even have a nice buffer for when times get tough?

If so, congrats, you're a fiscal conservative.

Very cute definition, too bad your fiscally conservatard buddies were cheering the recent tax cuts for the rich and corps. Subsidising billion $ businesses with taxpayers' money should go contrary to their "small gubmint" and "Keynesian economics sux, no spending!!1!" view but your typical """fiscally conservative""" type is too stupid to understand that and was instead cheering it on loud and proudly. Instead, they loved the $83 pennies they were handed, not realising that inflationary pressure and long-run tax increases means they'll be bleeding money and left worse-off than now. Oh and they apparently love giving their money to the rich. I don't know why but meh, we've already figured they're irrational dumbfucks... more power to them I guess, just don't pretend they give a fuck about reducing the deficit because it's clear as day they don't.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I call that virtual reality, virtue minus the reality. You have no meaningful existence, no effect of reality. I am also a fiscal conservative. But, what about the rest of my post, the part where fiscal conservatives love all kinds of authoritarian and fear based spending?
True fiscal conservatives wouldn’t love those things because they inherently represent the irresponsible spending of money.

Also, I see no reason one can't stay within budget and have higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy.
Agreed. Hard to do when companies off shore their profits. All the most admired tech companies are the worst offenders. Apple, Google and Amazon are welcome to lead by example at any time.

They are the ones who create all the nonsense about what it means to be a conservative and fiscally responsible. They mean, let us keep our money and own 90 % of all the wealth in the country. Having a few people own everything,,,,,,how is that fiscally responsible?
It’s not. Take an honest look at where this wealth disparity is worst, and perhaps you will understand my perspective better.
 
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