LOL, whatever. I guess I am stupid for her changing her story. I really doen't see how asking someone if they witnessed a birth can be lost in a translation.
You're clearly highly delusional.Delusional my ass. She says she was there when he was born and then she said she wasn’t. The only delusion is you saying that is a cut and dried.
Do you speak any of the languages spoken in Kenya? Have you ever translated anything between English and any of those languages? How you can comment on if something is likely to lead to confusion in a language you don't even speak is pretty amazingly dumb.
You aren't stupid for her changing what she said, you're stupid for being seemingly unable to understand how humans communicate with each other.
You're clearly highly delusional.
As noted, there is a clear explanation of the source of the confusion, which obviously doesn't mean much when you're talking about translation into a foreign language from someone who presumably isn't a professional translator.
They immediately correct him once they realize he thinks she is saying that Obama was born in Kenya. Given a clear explanation in the transcript link of how and why the confusion occurred, this is clearly not a real source of evidence on the question. (And we have extremely strong reasons to confidently state there is really no way Obama was born in question by contrast.)
Uh, you're just plain wrong here. Mcrae asked that according to the transcript, but unless you've listened to the actual audio, and even more relevantly what was heard on the end of the phone line, you don't know what they actually heard. (The sound quality could have been quite bad)Well unless you can clearly make out what he asked her then don't imediately jump to the conclusion that something was lost in translation. MCRAE clearly asked Was she present when he was born in Kenya? The translator says later on in the conversation he though he was asked if she was present tonight but that had already been asked at the begining of the conversation. Right before that someone said "It is here" when MCRAE said I would like to see his birthplace.
Its not like Obama's mother could have showed up several hours after Obama was born either asking for the birth certificate at a government office.
The referenced law is clearly cited by you as being passed in 1982 and therefore is utterly irrelevant to the issue in question. Of course on top of this crucially the law certainly doesn't say the Certificate of Live Birth will state Obama (or anyone else in question) was born in Honolulu on the Island of Oahu instead of Kenya or at least outside of the US. This was still a relevant issue even in 1961 where illegal immigration was at least a potential concern. (Even with a legal residency requirement lying about the baby's place of birth could still seriously short circuit the US citizenship process.) The law clearly has rules about fraudulent applications, which would require Hawaiian officials to not allow a bogus claim about being born in the US.Actually yes you can and that is well documented.
“[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]”
http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/06/22/birth-certificates-exploring-hawaiian-law/§338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates. (a) Birth certificates registered one year or more after the date of birth, and certificates which have been altered after being filed with the department of health, shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly “late” or “altered”.
(b) A summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for late filing or the alteration shall be endorsed on the certificates.
(c) Such evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.
(d) When an applicant does not submit the minimum documentation required by the rules for late registration or when the state registrar finds reasons to question the validity or adequacy of the certificate or the documentary evidence, the state registrar shall not register the late certificate and shall advise the applicant of the reason for this action.
The department of health may by rule provide for the dismissal of an application which is not actively prosecuted.
(e) As used in this section, “late” means one year or more after the date of birth. [L 1949, c 327, §20; RL 1955, §57-19; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-16; am L 1972, c 66, §1(2); am L 1997, c 305, §3]
The Hawaiian state health official who personally reviewed Barack Obama's original birth certificate has affirmed again that the document is "real" and denounced "conspiracy theorists" in the so-called "birther" movement for continuing to spread bogus claims about the issue.
"Its kind of ludicrous at this point," Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the former director of Hawaii's Department of Health, said in a rare telephone interview with NBC.
Fukino, sounding both exasperated and amused, spoke to a reporter in the aftermath of Donald Trump's statements on the NBC Today show last week questioning whether Obama has a legitimate birth certificate.
Trump, who says he is considering a run for president, repeated his claims on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday, saying that "nobody has any information" about the president's birth and that "if he wasn't born in this country, he shouldn't be president of the United States."
No matter what state officials release on the issue, the "birthers" are going to question it, said Fukino. "Theyre going to question the ink on which it was written or say it was fabricated," said Fukino. "The whole thing is silly."
As the top Hawaiian official in charge of state health records in 2008, when the issue of Obama's birth first arose, Fukino said she thought she had put the matter to rest. Contacted by NBC, Fukino expanded on previous public statements and made two key points when asked about Trump's recent comments.
The first is that the original so-called "long form" birth certificate described by Hawaiian officials as a "record of live birth" absolutely exists, located in a bound volume in a file cabinet on the first floor of the state Department of Health. Fukimo said she has personally inspected it twice. The first time was in late October 2008, during the closing days of the presidential campaign, when the communications director for the state's then Republican governor, Linda Lingle (who appointed Fukino) asked if she could make a public statement in response to claims then circulating on the Internet that Obama was actually born in Kenya.
Before she would do so, Fukino said, she wanted to inspect the files and did so, taking with her the state official in charge of vital records. She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files. She then put out a public statement asserting to the document's validity. She later put out another public statement in July 2009 after reviewing the original birth record a second time.
"It is real, and no amount of saying it is not, is going to change that," Fukino said. Moreover, she added, her boss at the time, Lingle who was backing John McCain for president would presumably have to be in on any cover up since Fukino made her public comment at the governor's office's request. "Why would a Republican governor who was stumping for the other guy hold out on a big secret?" she asked.
Her second point one she made repeatedly in the interview is that the shorter, computer generated "certification of live birth" that was obtained by the Obama campaign in 2007 and has since been publicly released is the standard document that anybody requesting their birth certificate from the state of Hawaii would receive from the health department.
The document was distributed to the Obama campaign in 2007 after Obama, at the request of a campaign official, personally signed a Hawaii birth certificate request form downloaded on the Internet, according to a former campaign official who asked for anonymity. (Obama was "testy" when asked to sign the form but did so anyway to put the issue to rest, the former campaign official said. The White House has dismissed all questions about the president's birth as "fictional nonsense.")
The certification that the campaign received back which shows that Obama was born in Honolulu at 7:24 p.m. on Aug. 4, 1961 was based on the content of the original document in state files, Fukino said.
"What he got, everybody got," said Fukino. "He put out exactly what everybody gets when they ask for a birth certificate."
Hawaiian officials say that the certification is, in fact, only one piece of abundant evidence of Obama's birth in Hawaii. Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.
In addition, as Factcheck.org and other media organizations have repeatedly pointed out, both of Honolulu's newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and the Honolulu Star Bulletin, on Aug. 14, 1961, both ran birth announcements listing Obama's birth on Aug. 4 of that year.
Even Fukino accepts that her comments are not likely to end the matter for the die-hard birthers. Trump and other skeptics have questioned why the original birth certificate has not been released.
But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" even to the individual whose birth it records.
"It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.
But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.
Also, Obama's mother was a pretty radical, America-hating liberal who married a Kenyan radical socialist. I'd guess that had Obama been born in Kenya they would both have been quite proud of the fact, although obviously that's conjecture.Uh, you're just plain wrong here. Mcrae asked that according to the transcript, but unless you've listened to the actual audio, and even more relevantly what was heard on the end of the phone line, you don't know what they actually heard. (The sound quality could have been quite bad)
When you throw in the translation problems already emphasized, this can't be reasonably considered relevant evidence of anything.
By contrast we have massive evidence the other way, such as Hawaii certainly doesn't create Certificates of Live Birth saying someone was born on in Honalulu on the island of Oahu to just anyone who shows up asking for one. (Contrary to a few false claims on the subject.) Its not like Obama's mother could have showed up several hours after Obama was born either asking for the birth certificate at a government office. There simply were not non-stop jet aircraft flights from Kenya to Oahu at the time(among other issues it was simply too long a distance for aircraft during that period). In fact, we can say with a great deal of confidence that you were looking at least at three stops on way from Kenya to Honalulu. (And its not like being heavily pregnant and flying over long distances, as would be required to get to Kenya, was viewed as a good thing in 1961 either. In fact today many airlines have policies outright against it and did so in the past as well.) By time Obama would have arrived in Honalulu, its not like not Obama's mother could have plausibly claimed he had just been born, and any government official would have asked considerable questions about the irregular circumstances. (There also really was no reason for a forging such a certificate or the like originally since even if Obama was born outside of the US, it would have been easy for him to get US citizenship. It only became relevant when Obama was looking at running for President, at which point arranging for a forgery and keeping the fact its a fake secret would have required a number of Republicans to be in on the conspiracy.)
You also have the huge practical issue often ignored that Obama's family was not wealthy at the time, and air travel (especially over such a large distance) was really extremely expensive as of 1961. You have the cost of flying to and from Kenya during a short period, which is a huge expense on its own. Unless you assume that a white woman from Kansas consented to just a tribal midwife in Kenya attending the birth, (perhaps the most preposterous detail in any of these conspiracy theories) you also also have the expense of Obama's mother going through labor at a Kenyan hospital. You also had Ann Durham flying to Seattle to start classes at the University of Hawaii about a month after Obama's birth costing more money. There is simply the question of where all the money to do all this came from. (With the idea of Ann Durham's parents agreeing to pay the cost of her flying to Kenya to give birth being highly unlikely.)
To emphasize this point again, if either Hillary or McCain could have produced genuine real evidence proving Obama was born outside of the US, it would have been an automatic win for them, and clearly they had the financial resources and incentive to do so and it didn't happen. (A random former Hillary supporter filing a lawsuit with a lack of supporting evidence doesn't in any way shape or form qualify as this occurring.)
On behalf of Canada I'd like to offer my condolences for the unfortunate misery you all must face in having Matt1970 as a citizen...
Or is he?
Matt1970, please present your Certificate of Still Birth.
It's amazing to me that despite all of his arguments being completely demolished, I'm sure that our good friend Matt is no less a birther today than he was before. Truly an impressive immunity to reason.
Below that should be excuses why Obama won't show his long form.
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolfe9999
FYI
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2011/0...birther-claims
I'm sure that still won't shut up people like Matt1970. Believers will believe even in the face of hard evidence. As Chris Rock said in Dogma, it's better to have an idea than to believe. You can change an idea.
__________________
Member ATOT fedora hat crew.
That's almost the longest excuse I have seen as to why he shouldn't show his long form.
But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records.
"It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.
But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.
Below that should be excuses why Obama won't show his long form.
President Obama is supposed to force the State of Hawaii to violate its own statutes so the Birthers can finally have a valid cause for his impeachment.It's an excuse that there is a state law that the long form will not be released or copied for anyone? How is a state law an excuse?
But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records.
Something that would have been nice for me to know YESTERDAY.