Don't bitch that the rich don't pay enough taxes

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The premise of this report is flawed. The rich benefit in many ways from government spending, not all of which are in the form of direct subsidies. A good example.. say the government spends $100 million to build low income housing. Well, that contract is awarded through a construction company owned by some very wealthy individuals and they profit substantially as well.

How much of that $100 million is profit for rich guy construction and how much of it is spent on supplies and labor?

Based on typical business profit levels the owners are going to get about 5% gross and the rest is going to be spent on other things, including the wages of dozens if not hundreds of workers. So yes the owner gets the largest single benefit, but all the little people get more in total dollar amount.

Maybe someone in the business can shed light on what the typical labor percentages are when it comes to buildings.

Typical profit margins are 1 - 3%.

Typical business owners also pay themselves a salary.

A more realistic approach is to consider the income distribution between capital and labour, which is about 60-something percent to labour. Then 30-something percent of the money is paid to capital. Not all of this is owned by the rich, but not all of labour is 'low-income', a substantial portion is in the second quintile, at any rate. The 1-3% is complete BS. A conservative estimate is that 20-30% of the money is paid to the highest 40% of the population by earnings.

PJ was commenting that based on typical business margins, the profit margin of a construction company was 5%. I responded by saying it's more like 1 - 3%. As someone who used to work in the accounting department of a construction company, I can tell you that the figure is accurate.

Sorry - you're right, the accounting 'profit' may well be 1-3%. But zen.. I mean PJ's (just kidding) argument is the same whether it's 1% or 5%, and it's not a good one, it's an intentional misdirection.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You imbecile, who gets the benefits in terms of income.

WHO EARNS THE MONEY MORON. The poor get money they didn't earn, the rich earned their money and have it taken and given to the poor.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: dahunan
Well.. honestly.. something does need to be done about the poor in the country who do not follow any basic logic..

Bad husbands
No degrees
FOUR OR FIVE KIDS
Welfare for all of them .. Why?

wow... That is pretty loaded there.

eletist much?

It is not elitist ... Do you know how many people who are considered poor meet the exact stats I just posted?

Do you know how many on welfare have too many kids? >> Too many kids equal more than your education and income can pay for.

You're exactly right.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: senseamp
My question is why are we wasting 41 cents on the tax dollar for the rich?
And why are we taxing the poor?

That 41 cents is probably the basic services...police, fire, roads, etc...

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ntdz
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/2286.html

Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41.

Maybe you should thank the rich for supporting the rest of the population instead of lambasting them in a jealous rage...don't bite the hand that feeds.

I wonder how much of that is included in public education, whereas the rich usually opt for private.

Plenty of rich kids go to public universities. UCLA, Berkeley, Penn St...all great public institutions.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ntdz
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/2286.html

Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41.

Maybe you should thank the rich for supporting the rest of the population instead of lambasting them in a jealous rage...don't bite the hand that feeds.

I wonder how much of that is included in public education, whereas the rich usually opt for private.

Despite the fact that the rich opt for private, they have to pay for public as well as private.

It makes no difference if they don't send their kids to private schools, they still pay for them.

Please bear that in mind.

 

[trenchfoot]

yep, the system is really unfair to the rich.

that's why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

that's why the rich detest a tax system whereby we would all pay an equal flat tax rate.

that's why there exists a war against the middle class by elitists.

that's why the rich need to import millions of illegal immigrants every year to exploit.

that's why the neocons exist.

it's not that the rich don't pay enough taxes, it's that the rich don't want to pay their fair share and have in one way or another structured the present tax code to reflect that effort.

btw, i'm not complaining. i have exploited every legal loophole that my CPA and tax consultant have brought to my attention and have managed to come out favorably every tax cycle, as any prudent taxpayer would.

however, i've seen how the tax code have been manipulated over these many years to know that most changes in it have been made to give the rich a whole lot more breaks than the middle class and poor.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You imbecile, who gets the benefits in terms of income.

WHO EARNS THE MONEY MORON. The poor get money they didn't earn, the rich earned their money and have it taken and given to the poor.

Jesus Christ, you butt-head, that point was already covered. You thing you can make the same asinine comment as the last fool and suddenly it becomes true. The OP established we are talking about people who earn. And we already also established that without the poor and middle class the parasitic rich would starve. Please get your ass up to speed.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: dahunan
Well.. honestly.. something does need to be done about the poor in the country who do not follow any basic logic..

Bad husbands
No degrees
FOUR OR FIVE KIDS
Welfare for all of them .. Why?

wow... That is pretty loaded there.

eletist much?

It is not elitist ... Do you know how many people who are considered poor meet the exact stats I just posted?

Do you know how many on welfare have too many kids? >> Too many kids equal more than your education and income can pay for.

You're exactly right.

Ah yes, here comes "Let's play blame the victim and make ourselves look good."

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: senseamp
My question is why are we wasting 41 cents on the tax dollar for the rich?
And why are we taxing the poor?

That 41 cents is probably the basic services...police, fire, roads, etc...

Let's play, "Let me pull some numbers out of my ass."

 

[Siddhartha]

I get paid an upper middle class paycheck and I do not have kids or any othe kind of tax breaks. So I am in the high income tax bracket.

It does not bother me that the poor get more benefits than I do. I can see the value of helping the poor. In the past my family has been poor. I know people who are poor. Helping the poor, education, health care, and supporting the American way of life is how I want my taxes used.

But it does bother me when the taxes I pay go to a war that was instigated on lies or cherry picked information. How much has the Iraqi war cost in money and lifes? How much will it cost in the next 10 years?

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: SViscusi
Which column did they add the trillions of dollars spent on military campaigns overseas to protect the interest of the rich?

and who are the rich?

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: senseamp
My question is why are we wasting 41 cents on the tax dollar for the rich?
And why are we taxing the poor?

That 41 cents is probably the basic services...police, fire, roads, etc...

Let's play, "Let me pull some numbers out of my ass."

How about you learn how to play "Let's contribute something worth a damn to a thread."

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333
The person who earned it? Just a guess.

Wrong. If you will read the post:

"Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41."

you will clearly see that all three groups are said to earn. So my question, had you been less thick, was which group benefits by having the greatest earnings.

Don't bite the hand that feeds. That's great. The rich are vampires that depend on a functioning society of millions of others for their wealth. Out in the jungle they would be worth less than a monkey and dead in a couple of days.

Sheesh, your ridiculous. If they earn it they deserve it. Your question is inane.

The real vampires are the poor who don't do anything to improve their life. We get lovely samples of them in our paper, people who quit part way through the year so they don't lose EITC or their other government benefits. The real vampires, who are the poor trash we see everyday, don't do anything but leech off of those who do work, who bust their ass for a better life.

I don't consider myself rich yet I can do the math. I look at my paycheck and wince when I see how much of it is lost to taxes. To schemes like Social Security. Sorry, but taking nearly 30+ percent of my paycheck DIRECTLY is criminal, followed by the nearly 20% embedded taxes in everything we buy.

Sorry, the poor only get screwed over by a government that makes sure they have just enough to survive with government services but never enough to get out from under the hand of that government.

The rich provide the wealth needed to make the jobs we all have. It isn't some damn job-fairy or the government that improves the lives of the people. At one time the government did help but not anymore. It only serves people to increase its own power.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'd gladly pay a higher percentage of my income to taxes if it meant I was rich and not poor but that's just me I guess. Never being rich myself I probably have a different perspective on how much I need to live a life of luxury free from want. I guess the rich like the non rich have their worries too, instead of worrying about how they are going to make this months mortgage, pay for the Kids braces et cetera, they worry about which car they are going to drive today or were they are going to go on vacation this month.

To quote John Lennon "They say money can't buy love but what it can buy I can use!"

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
The real vampires are the poor who don't do anything to improve their life. We get lovely samples of them in our paper, people who quit part way through the year so they don't lose EITC or their other government benefits. The real vampires, who are the poor trash we see everyday, don't do anything but leech off of those who do work, who bust their ass for a better life.

...

Sorry, the poor only get screwed over by a government that makes sure they have just enough to survive with government services but never enough to get out from under the hand of that government.

Are the rich screwing the poor or is it the other way around?

Make up your mind!!!

 

[techs]

In the great tradition of ntdz's "fairness" he quotes "taxfoundation.org".
HaHa.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: techs
In the great tradition of ntdz's "fairness" he quotes "taxfoundation.org".
HaHa.

haha, techs can do nothing more than mock the person for their source instead of debating the issue.


sheesh.


find a source to refute his source, or do you need help with using google?

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlieto get out from under the hand of that government.

Are the rich screwing the poor or is it the other way around?

Make up your mind!!![/quote]

The rich are not screwing over the poor, the government is.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'd gladly pay a higher percentage of my income to taxes if it meant I was rich and not poor but that's just me I guess. Never being rich myself I probably have a different perspective on how much I need to live a life of luxury free from want. I guess the rich like the non rich have their worries too, instead of worrying about how they are going to make this months mortgage, pay for the Kids braces et cetera, they worry about which car they are going to drive today or were they are going to go on vacation this month.

To quote John Lennon "They say money can't buy love but what it can buy I can use!"

Hear, hear! I watched a Q&A session Warren Buffet and Bill Gates did at the University of Nebrasksa School of Business. Both agreed the wealthy should pay more in taxes, simply because it impacts them (the wealthy) least and because they gain the greatest benefit from the extraordinary physical, financial, and educational infrastructure we have. Much of that infrastructure was built and is maintained with tax dollars. Yes, the average person benefits from our roads and schools, but your typical wealthy person, e.g., a CEO or investor, benefits a thousand-fold more due to all the productive workers who are available to make wealth for them.

While lopsided reports like the OP's ignore this, it is the real basis for American prosperity. I think most wealthy recognize this and are content with it. They're smart enough to recognize that 60% of $100M is about $59.9M more than they could make in some third-world tax utopia. The people who rail the most against taxes are the greedy, most of whom are wealthy-wannabe's who "know" they could be wealthy too, if only they didn't pay so much in taxes. They're deluding themselves, but they're useful pawns for the greedy who are wealthy.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: techs
In the great tradition of ntdz's "fairness" he quotes "taxfoundation.org".
HaHa.

haha, techs can do nothing more than mock the person for their source instead of debating the issue.


sheesh.


find a source to refute his source, or do you need help with using google?

Sorry but you do this to me all the time. Don't add hypocrite to your list of shortcomings.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlieto get out from under the hand of that government.

Are the rich screwing the poor or is it the other way around?

Make up your mind!!!

The rich are not screwing over the poor, the government is.[/quote]

Well thanks for that partial admission of guilt.

and who controls the Government, the poor according to you???

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlieto get out from under the hand of that government.

Are the rich screwing the poor or is it the other way around?

Make up your mind!!!

The rich are not screwing over the poor, the government is.

Well thanks for that partial admission of guilt.

and who controls the Government, the poor according to you???[/quote]

Right now? Rich Democrats

:laugh:

 

[piasabird]

The Richer you are the more tax shelters you can create.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlieto get out from under the hand of that government.

Are the rich screwing the poor or is it the other way around?

Make up your mind!!!

The rich are not screwing over the poor, the government is.

Well thanks for that partial admission of guilt.

and who controls the Government, the poor according to you???

Right now? Rich Democrats

:laugh:

[/quote]
Even Dave has never expressed love for rich democrats.