Don't bitch that the rich don't pay enough taxes

[Gonad the Barbarian]

There are two ways a government can oppress parts of its population. Keep them too destitute to do anything about it, or allow them just enough not to care to. Our poor people are a lot better off than poor people in other countries, but that doesn't mean the powers that be aren't stacking the deck against them.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Compare our 'poor' to the 'poor' in Africa or Southeast Asia or even Mexico.

So when America has spiraled all the way down to your examples of Africa, Southeast Asia or Mexico it will be "Mission Accomplished II"?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Compare our 'poor' to the 'poor' in Africa or Southeast Asia or even Mexico.

So when America has spiraled all the way down to your examples of Africa, Southeast Asia or Mexico it will be "Mission Accomplished II"?

Compare our poor illegal aliens to the average person in the country where they came from illegally in the first place.

 

[dahunan]

Do people realize that most poor have too many children.. they took on too much responsibility for their means or ability.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You imbecile, who gets the benefits in terms of income.

WHO EARNS THE MONEY MORON. The poor get money they didn't earn, the rich earned their money and have it taken and given to the poor.

Jesus Christ, you butt-head, that point was already covered. You thing you can make the same asinine comment as the last fool and suddenly it becomes true. The OP established we are talking about people who earn. And we already also established that without the poor and middle class the parasitic rich would starve. Please get your ass up to speed.

And the poor would be FAR worse off as well if the rich didnt contribute no? Each benefit from the other....

The poor would be better off if they killed the rich and took their things. Thats why we have police and law, at least in part.

Yeah, because people on welfare with no education are better suited to run billion dollar corporations and make big decisions than rich people. The poor would squander the wealth in a week, why do you think everyone is in debt? The masses are a bunch of idiots who can't manage their money.

If society would invest in the education, health and development of the poor, no doubt many of the poor could do the same job. The overwhelming criterion for being rich is having been born rich.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333
The person who earned it? Just a guess.

Wrong. If you will read the post:

"Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41."

you will clearly see that all three groups are said to earn. So my question, had you been less thick, was which group benefits by having the greatest earnings.

Don't bite the hand that feeds. That's great. The rich are vampires that depend on a functioning society of millions of others for their wealth. Out in the jungle they would be worth less than a monkey and dead in a couple of days.

hate to break it to you moon, but this is the jungle and only the strong survive...oh wait no...the weak do to because the strong have to carry their sorry asses.

heh.

Strength is not the criterion, neither is effort, when it comes to wealth. Wealth in a post hunter-gatherer society comes from capital, whether that capital be education, land, currency, or whatever. As society progresses, the correlation between work and wealth has almost certainly declined.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Compare our 'poor' to the 'poor' in Africa or Southeast Asia or even Mexico.

So when America has spiraled all the way down to your examples of Africa, Southeast Asia or Mexico it will be "Mission Accomplished II"?

No, the poor should pay the same % of taxes as the super rich no matter what. That's the fairest solution.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You imbecile, who gets the benefits in terms of income.

WHO EARNS THE MONEY MORON. The poor get money they didn't earn, the rich earned their money and have it taken and given to the poor.

Jesus Christ, you butt-head, that point was already covered. You thing you can make the same asinine comment as the last fool and suddenly it becomes true. The OP established we are talking about people who earn. And we already also established that without the poor and middle class the parasitic rich would starve. Please get your ass up to speed.

And the poor would be FAR worse off as well if the rich didnt contribute no? Each benefit from the other....

The poor would be better off if they killed the rich and took their things. Thats why we have police and law, at least in part.

Yeah, because people on welfare with no education are better suited to run billion dollar corporations and make big decisions than rich people. The poor would squander the wealth in a week, why do you think everyone is in debt? The masses are a bunch of idiots who can't manage their money.

Are you serious?

Everyone is in debt because otherwise there would be no money.

He's just looking for some place he can fatten his ego. He fancies calling millions of people idiots makes him smart. This always happens when people actually feel stupid. Suddenly pretending to be smart becomes an issue.

/nod thats right! Because in Moon's world everyone is equal and there are no winners or losers! Just think...that guy that panhandles is just waiting for an opportunity. If only the CEO of a fortune 500 company would just give him a chance, he could do his job!

Isn't this the supposed american dream, at least in its core? Making something out of nothing, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, and whatever Horatio Alger tale you like the best. i thought the glory of america was that any poor sap could pull a good break and have himself a hundred acre estate and a cabin in the mountains buy the time he died. Instead people seem to want to suplant it with a world in which the rich are a class upon themselves, greater and more deserving by their very nature.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Do people realize that most poor have too many children.. they took on too much responsibility for their means or ability.

Heh, I see nobody cares to argue this point. It's a great point. You can be a single guy working a very very low-skill, very low paying job and have enough money for food shelter, clothing, and even enough leftover to save and to buy health insurance. I'm speaking from experience making less than 8 dollars an hour working 35 hours a week. I did so for about a year until I realized I wanted to go back to college.

But back to the problem...it doesn't take much effort to see what the vast majority of the poor is made up of. I see a lot of poor people who drink beer, smoke cigarettes, buy video games, eat out often, and have unprotected sex (which results in children). I keep my priorities straight. When I lived on my own, I lived within my budget and if I wanted more, I worked for it. I never allowed myself to have unprotected sex. I've made good decisions and it's sad to think that in the future I will be taxed heavily to help support those who decided not to make good decisions.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: her209
No, the poor should pay the same % of taxes as the super rich no matter what. That's the fairest solution.

And even then it's still not fair. Assume the rate is 10%. A person making 100,000 dollars a year is going to pay 10,000 dollars in taxes. A person making 10,000 dollars a year is going to pay 1,000 dollars in taxes. The former is going to pay 9,000 dollars more a year in taxes for the same services.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
who gains the most though? Who has the most to lose? Basic subsidy of the poor is esential to the wealthy preserving their income, because if people start losing their belief in the system and their interest in the system, the whole thing comes crashing down.

Government is only a part of society, how much to the rich gain from society? Clearly alot, as they are rich after all.

Do the poor not benefit from our society as well? In fact I think you could say that the poor benefit quite a lot from our society. Compare the poor in America to the poor just about any place else in the world.

I think it is hard to say that the poor or the rich benefit more in our society. Let?s face it, both the poor and rich gain a lot via our society.
The rich has a stable successful society in which to gain and use their wealth in, and the poor get tons of social programs and spending to help them out.

You don't get it do you. If the poor gained alot from society, they wouldn't be called the poor would they?

You don't get it. The 'poor' in American live a better life style than many people in Europe who would be called middle class over there.
Compare our 'poor' to the 'poor' in Africa or Southeast Asia or even Mexico.

so its ok that the poor receive far less than their share because people in other countries live in incredible poverty? By that logic we should say the wealthy shouldn't complain about their tax rates when we compare them to europe, which has hgiher top-end tax rates all around. Also, you will find that the poor in europe do much better than our poor in general, and often their middles classes do better as well, getter more time off, better benefits, and shorter work days.

The typical 'poor' person in America has a car, 2 TVs, air condition and more food than they should eat (hence the obesity epidemic effecting our lower class.)

Its not a matter of quantity, but quality that has lead to this. The poor cannot afford good food or do not have the time to make it. The unfortunate thing is that this further handicaps them, reducing their incomes and causing them poorer health.

They have all this great stuff because as a society we are insanely rich compared too many parts of the world. We have this great wealth because the rich in this country are so great at creating wealth. And when the wealth of our society as whole increases everyone benefits.

wealth is created by labor, since without labor, nothing would be built. You can have all the wealth and labor in the world, but without labor it would sit idle. Get rid of the capital, and people would still be able to work, however, and new wealth would be created. Labor always has been, is, and always will be prior and more important than capital. Further, as I have said before, it is the capital itself, not the owner of the capital, that creates and improves wealth.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Compare our 'poor' to the 'poor' in Africa or Southeast Asia or even Mexico.

So when America has spiraled all the way down to your examples of Africa, Southeast Asia or Mexico it will be "Mission Accomplished II"?

No, the poor should pay the same % of taxes as the super rich no matter what. That's the fairest solution.

So its fair to force someone to pay a tax they can't afford to pay and tax away income that should be spent on vital needs, such as housing, good food, and education? When push comes to shove, which comes first?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: dahunan
Do people realize that most poor have too many children.. they took on too much responsibility for their means or ability.

Heh, I see nobody cares to argue this point. It's a great point. You can be a single guy working a very very low-skill, very low paying job and have enough money for food shelter, clothing, and even enough leftover to save and to buy health insurance. I'm speaking from experience making less than 8 dollars an hour working 35 hours a week. I did so for about a year until I realized I wanted to go back to college.

But back to the problem...it doesn't take much effort to see what the vast majority of the poor is made up of. I see a lot of poor people who drink beer, smoke cigarettes, buy video games, eat out often, and have unprotected sex (which results in children). I keep my priorities straight. When I lived on my own, I lived within my budget and if I wanted more, I worked for it. I never allowed myself to have unprotected sex. I've made good decisions and it's sad to think that in the future I will be taxed heavily to help support those who decided not to make good decisions.

Reproduce and see how you do on $8 an hour. I worked for a while at $11/hour and 50 hour weeks, bought nothing unnecessary and still would have barely made it if i were paying my own housing.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: her209
No, the poor should pay the same % of taxes as the super rich no matter what. That's the fairest solution.

And even then it's still not fair. Assume the rate is 10%. A person making 100,000 dollars a year is going to pay 10,000 dollars in taxes. A person making 10,000 dollars a year is going to pay 1,000 dollars in taxes. The former is going to pay 9,000 dollars more a year in taxes for the same services.

whats not fair about that, each gives up the same "burden" (I argue that the person earning 10000 pays a higher burden)

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

He's just looking for some place he can fatten his ego. He fancies calling millions of people idiots makes him smart. This always happens when people actually feel stupid. Suddenly pretending to be smart becomes an issue.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You imbecile, who gets the benefits in terms of income.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Jesus Christ, you butt-head, that point was already covered.
...
Please get your ass up to speed.

:roll:

If you will read the OP you will see I am required to "lambasting them in a jealous rage".

You may be a nobody, but I live up to expectations.

Of course you do Moonie........ntdz is your organ grinder, you are his trained monkey. Expectation met.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Reproduce and see how you do on $8 an hour. I worked for a while at $11/hour and 50 hour weeks, bought nothing unnecessary and still would have barely made it if i were paying my own housing.

I don't plan to reproduce, I can't support children. That's my whole point...I'm not choosing to have financial burdens (like having children) so that other people can pay for my own stupid decisions.

Not sure where you were living, but after taxes my income was around 900 a month. 400 was for rent and bills. 100 was for food (yes it's possible to live on that much a month for food). 250 was to own and operate a car (insurance, payment, gas, repairs), and the rest was for savings and eventually to pay for medical insurance. By the way, I didn't need cable, broadband, or a car payment either.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: her209
No, the poor should pay the same % of taxes as the super rich no matter what. That's the fairest solution.

And even then it's still not fair. Assume the rate is 10%. A person making 100,000 dollars a year is going to pay 10,000 dollars in taxes. A person making 10,000 dollars a year is going to pay 1,000 dollars in taxes. The former is going to pay 9,000 dollars more a year in taxes for the same services.

Since we're all so very concerned about "fairness", everybody should make the same amount of money for their 40 hour week, then we could all pay the same in taxes.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
whats not fair about that, each gives up the same "burden" (I argue that the person earning 10000 pays a higher burden)

Actually I was being a little sarcastic. I don't support a flat-fee tax. I do however support a flat tax. In fact, our nation can function and thrive off of about a 10% flat income tax rate. We just need to do a LOT of government spending cuts in all areas.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
whats not fair about that, each gives up the same "burden" (I argue that the person earning 10000 pays a higher burden)

Actually I was being a little sarcastic. I don't support a flat-fee tax. I do however support a flat tax. In fact, our nation can function and thrive off of about a 10% flat income tax rate. We just need to do a LOT of government spending cuts in all areas.

I personally am of the belief that government can do alot of good if we allow it to, the probably is that people often seem to not want it too, which i think could be traced to the federal system in itself and the conflicts it (intentionally) creates. Governemnts in many other democracies seem to be much better at coming up wit reasonable programs, ours however are disasters as a rule.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: dahunan
Do people realize that most poor have too many children.. they took on too much responsibility for their means or ability.

Heh, I see nobody cares to argue this point. It's a great point. You can be a single guy working a very very low-skill, very low paying job and have enough money for food shelter, clothing, and even enough leftover to save and to buy health insurance. I'm speaking from experience making less than 8 dollars an hour working 35 hours a week. I did so for about a year until I realized I wanted to go back to college.

But back to the problem...it doesn't take much effort to see what the vast majority of the poor is made up of. I see a lot of poor people who drink beer, smoke cigarettes, buy video games, eat out often, and have unprotected sex (which results in children). I keep my priorities straight. When I lived on my own, I lived within my budget and if I wanted more, I worked for it. I never allowed myself to have unprotected sex. I've made good decisions and it's sad to think that in the future I will be taxed heavily to help support those who decided not to make good decisions.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING, PEEPING:roll: IN THEIR WINDOWS ALL NIGHT? HA! HA! HA! HA!

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

He's just looking for some place he can fatten his ego. He fancies calling millions of people idiots makes him smart. This always happens when people actually feel stupid. Suddenly pretending to be smart becomes an issue.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You imbecile, who gets the benefits in terms of income.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Jesus Christ, you butt-head, that point was already covered.
...
Please get your ass up to speed.

:roll:

If you will read the OP you will see I am required to "lambasting them in a jealous rage".

You may be a nobody, but I live up to expectations.

Of course you do Moonie........ntdz is your organ grinder, you are his trained monkey. Expectation met.

You mean I was not operating at a level of sophistication you couldn't possibly suspect ? And heck, I could have sworn it was I who turned your crank.

 

[thujone]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: her209
No, the poor should pay the same % of taxes as the super rich no matter what. That's the fairest solution.

And even then it's still not fair. Assume the rate is 10%. A person making 100,000 dollars a year is going to pay 10,000 dollars in taxes. A person making 10,000 dollars a year is going to pay 1,000 dollars in taxes. The former is going to pay 9,000 dollars more a year in taxes for the same services.

Since we're all so very concerned about "fairness", everybody should make the same amount of money for their 40 hour week, then we could all pay the same in taxes.

COMMIE!!! OMG!!! SOMEONE JUMP ON THE COMMIE!!!

lol... it would have been funnier if i said this after someone else SERIOUSLY said this.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333
The person who earned it? Just a guess.

Wrong. If you will read the post:

"Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41."

you will clearly see that all three groups are said to earn. So my question, had you been less thick, was which group benefits by having the greatest earnings.

Don't bite the hand that feeds. That's great. The rich are vampires that depend on a functioning society of millions of others for their wealth. Out in the jungle they would be worth less than a monkey and dead in a couple of days.

hate to break it to you moon, but this is the jungle and only the strong survive...oh wait no...the weak do to because the strong have to carry their sorry asses.

Wow. Get rid of the "weak", watch the "strong" starve to death.

get rid of the poor that are there because they either are:

-too lazy to do anything about it
-or don't care because they get much more from the system than if they apply themselves

the strong will continue to survive, quite heartily I might add.

 

[thujone]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333
The person who earned it? Just a guess.

Wrong. If you will read the post:

"Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41."

you will clearly see that all three groups are said to earn. So my question, had you been less thick, was which group benefits by having the greatest earnings.

Don't bite the hand that feeds. That's great. The rich are vampires that depend on a functioning society of millions of others for their wealth. Out in the jungle they would be worth less than a monkey and dead in a couple of days.

hate to break it to you moon, but this is the jungle and only the strong survive...oh wait no...the weak do to because the strong have to carry their sorry asses.

Wow. Get rid of the "weak", watch the "strong" starve to death.

get rid of the poor that are there because they either are:

-too lazy to do anything about it
-or don't care because they get much more from the system than if they apply themselves

the strong will continue to survive, quite heartily I might add.

the question i have for all the people that are complaining about the handouts the poor get...

have you ever lived on welfare?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: thujone
the question i have for all the people that are complaining about the handouts the poor get...

have you ever lived on welfare?

They'e not concerned about the poor, they are concerned about how to get rich themselves. They try to emulate the Rich and in doing so make the Rich richer. Why do you think there is such facination with the Rich in this country by the Middle Class? Why do you think the lives of Paris Hilton, Bill Gates and the like are so interesting to us Americans?