Don't bitch that the rich don't pay enough taxes

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Don't bite the hand that feeds. That's great. The rich are vampires that depend on a functioning society of millions of others for their wealth. Out in the jungle they would be worth less than a monkey and dead in a couple of days.

That is simply absurd. Everyone depends and benefits from a functioning society. The rich, the middle class and the poor. I would wager to say that very few Americans would last long ?out in the jungle?.


So my question, had you been less thick, was which group benefits by having the greatest earnings.

Nothing thick about it, the people who earned it benefit from those earnings. The lower and middle class also benefit from the earnings of the rich but I would never imagine that someone would benefit more from a groups earnings than the group that is actually earning it. Explain how the above is ?thick? please?.

Joe gets a penny, Pete gets a nickle, and James gets 95 cents. You are right they all benefit. Now who BENEFITS?

None of them because you can't even buy a bottle of water for under a buck these days.

Nope, It's back to calling you thick. The answer was 94.

I didn't realize that 94 was an option. Regardless of what names you call me it doesn't change the fact that the person who earns the money will benefit from it as it should be. However, I must be thick because I still don't understand where you are going with this.

Are you trying to insinuate that the rich benefit from their earnings more? If so, then we are in total agreement. Just like a hard worker usually benefits more by getting more raises than someone who doesn't work as hard. Hell, all of life is like that, the harder you work the more you will benefit from whatever goal you where working towards.

On a much smaller basis the rich benefit from the poor and the poor benefit from the rich. I wouldn't give an advantage to either side though.

Of course you know where I was going but you pretend to be thick. People who earn hundreds or thousands of times the wages of the poor are the ones who pull down the real monetary benefits our system offers. They pay the greatest taxes and still have the greatest benefits.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Don't bite the hand that feeds. That's great. The rich are vampires that depend on a functioning society of millions of others for their wealth. Out in the jungle they would be worth less than a monkey and dead in a couple of days.

That is simply absurd. Everyone depends and benefits from a functioning society. The rich, the middle class and the poor. I would wager to say that very few Americans would last long ?out in the jungle?.


So my question, had you been less thick, was which group benefits by having the greatest earnings.

Nothing thick about it, the people who earned it benefit from those earnings. The lower and middle class also benefit from the earnings of the rich but I would never imagine that someone would benefit more from a groups earnings than the group that is actually earning it. Explain how the above is ?thick? please?.

Joe gets a penny, Pete gets a nickle, and James gets 95 cents. You are right they all benefit. Now who BENEFITS?

None of them because you can't even buy a bottle of water for under a buck these days.

Nope, It's back to calling you thick. The answer was 94.

I didn't realize that 94 was an option. Regardless of what names you call me it doesn't change the fact that the person who earns the money will benefit from it as it should be. However, I must be thick because I still don't understand where you are going with this.

Are you trying to insinuate that the rich benefit from their earnings more? If so, then we are in total agreement. Just like a hard worker usually benefits more by getting more raises than someone who doesn't work as hard. Hell, all of life is like that, the harder you work the more you will benefit from whatever goal you where working towards.

On a much smaller basis the rich benefit from the poor and the poor benefit from the rich. I wouldn't give an advantage to either side though.

Of course you know where I was going but you pretend to be thick. People who earn hundreds or thousands of times the wages of the poor are the ones who pull down the real monetary benefits our system offers. They pay the greatest taxes and still have the greatest benefits.

To clarify, are we speaking of the very few ultra wealthy people in this country or the top 5% that are considered to be rich?

And as a point, most nations have their ?rich? and upper class. However, the poor of our country live like most of the world wide middle class. Hell, cable television is seen as a necessity. The fact that our poor people live a multitude of times better than the majority of the rest of the humans on this planet proves that they do in fact benefit nicely from this country and government that the rich largely pay for.

 

[Jhhnn]

So, uhh, does this mean that the rightwing is advocating an end to red state welfare?

Probably not...

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Don't bite the hand that feeds. That's great. The rich are vampires that depend on a functioning society of millions of others for their wealth. Out in the jungle they would be worth less than a monkey and dead in a couple of days.

That is simply absurd. Everyone depends and benefits from a functioning society. The rich, the middle class and the poor. I would wager to say that very few Americans would last long ?out in the jungle?.


So my question, had you been less thick, was which group benefits by having the greatest earnings.

Nothing thick about it, the people who earned it benefit from those earnings. The lower and middle class also benefit from the earnings of the rich but I would never imagine that someone would benefit more from a groups earnings than the group that is actually earning it. Explain how the above is ?thick? please?.

Joe gets a penny, Pete gets a nickle, and James gets 95 cents. You are right they all benefit. Now who BENEFITS?

None of them because you can't even buy a bottle of water for under a buck these days.

Nope, It's back to calling you thick. The answer was 94.

I didn't realize that 94 was an option. Regardless of what names you call me it doesn't change the fact that the person who earns the money will benefit from it as it should be. However, I must be thick because I still don't understand where you are going with this.

Are you trying to insinuate that the rich benefit from their earnings more? If so, then we are in total agreement. Just like a hard worker usually benefits more by getting more raises than someone who doesn't work as hard. Hell, all of life is like that, the harder you work the more you will benefit from whatever goal you where working towards.

On a much smaller basis the rich benefit from the poor and the poor benefit from the rich. I wouldn't give an advantage to either side though.

Of course you know where I was going but you pretend to be thick. People who earn hundreds or thousands of times the wages of the poor are the ones who pull down the real monetary benefits our system offers. They pay the greatest taxes and still have the greatest benefits.

To clarify, are we speaking of the very few ultra wealthy people in this country or the top 5% that are considered to be rich?

And as a point, most nations have their ?rich? and upper class. However, the poor of our country live like most of the world wide middle class. Hell, cable television is seen as a necessity. The fact that our poor people live a multitude of times better than the majority of the rest of the humans on this planet proves that they do in fact benefit nicely from this country and government that the rich largely pay for.

But they don't benefit like the rich nor as well as they would if the rich paid more taxes. The rich in this country are also vastly richer than those well off in other countries too. Plenty of fat to trim.

 

[Icepick]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: SViscusi
Which column did they add the trillions of dollars spent on military campaigns overseas to protect the interest of the rich?

So the poor aren't protected via the military? Only the rich? hmmm

Let's think... we leave Iraq, the price of oil goes up to $5 a gallon... who suffers more the rich or the poor?

Well, the poor ARE the military. The rich send their sons to Yale and other ivy league schools while the poor are enticed to volunteer for the military. That way they can go to Iraq and come back maimed and torn so that the rich kids can enjoy the fruits of the brave soldiers' sacrifices.

So you're right, the poor are protected by the military too but, they also swell its ranks.

 

[wetech]

Originally posted by: Icepick

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: SViscusi
Which column did they add the trillions of dollars spent on military campaigns overseas to protect the interest of the rich?

So the poor aren't protected via the military? Only the rich? hmmm

Let's think... we leave Iraq, the price of oil goes up to $5 a gallon... who suffers more the rich or the poor?

Well, the poor ARE the military. The rich send their sons to Yale and other ivy league schools while the poor are enticed to volunteer for the military. That way they can go to Iraq and come back maimed and torn so that the rich kids can enjoy the fruits of the brave soldiers' sacrifices.

So you're right, the poor are protected by the military too but, they also swell its ranks.

You'll probably dismiss this article / study, but the distribution of military members by income level is comparable to the rest of the US.

link

link

here's another link from someone who's anti-Bush:

link

 

[iskim86]

Originally posted by: ntdz
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/2286.html

Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41.

Maybe you should thank the rich for supporting the rest of the population instead of lambasting them in a jealous rage...don't bite the hand that feeds.

yeah people hate rich folks for no reason

maybe the poor should've:

1. gotten better education
2. have better connections
3. have better parents
4. been luckier
5. not been hated by god
6. perhaps been born in a different country, of another race, raised somewhere else, or not been born at all.

so many factors contribute to richness, don't be hatin'!!

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: iskim86

Originally posted by: ntdz
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/2286.html

Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41.

Maybe you should thank the rich for supporting the rest of the population instead of lambasting them in a jealous rage...don't bite the hand that feeds.

yeah people hate rich folks for no reason

maybe the poor shits should've:

1. gotten better education
2. have better connections
3. have better parents
4. been luckier
5. not been hated by god
6. perhaps been born in a different country, of another race, raised somewhere else, or not been born at all.

so many factors contribute to richness, don't be hatin'!!

The only people I'm hatin' on are people that hate the rich despite riding their coattails. I realize that some people get certain opportunities not afforded other people, but I don't care...they still took advantage of it and made something of themselves.

 

[iskim86]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: iskim86

Originally posted by: ntdz
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/2286.html

Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41.

Maybe you should thank the rich for supporting the rest of the population instead of lambasting them in a jealous rage...don't bite the hand that feeds.

yeah people hate rich folks for no reason

maybe the poor shits should've:

1. gotten better education
2. have better connections
3. have better parents
4. been luckier
5. not been hated by god
6. perhaps been born in a different country, of another race, raised somewhere else, or not been born at all.

so many factors contribute to richness, don't be hatin'!!

The only people I'm hatin' on are people that hate the rich despite riding their coattails. I realize that some people get certain opportunities not afforded other people, but I don't care...they still took advantage of it and made something of themselves.

Life is what you make of.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think ntdz's comment reflects a very common misconception about how income is distributed-

The only people I'm hatin' on are people that hate the rich despite riding their coattails. I realize that some people get certain opportunities not afforded other people, but I don't care...they still took advantage of it and made something of themselves.

Within the confines of the lower 90% of earners, he's right, and within the confines of the lower 99% he's mostly right.

But that's not the whole picture, and it leaves the truly wealthy entirely out of it all. In fact, it leaves ~22% of income out of the picture, which is the top 1% share at the current time. That's grown explosively over the last 30 years, for a variety of reasons. And it's something that must be hidden and compensated for in order to allow it to continue. Which is the function of increased social spending and debt acquisition by the govt, to mask the effects of that shift. Debt acquisition does even more, providing the debt holders increased leverage over govt policy, and can easily culminate in argentina-like scenarios that are extremely unpleasant for the general population.

Think of it in terms of an engineered corporate bankruptcy based on debt. Those at the top paint a rosy picture, manipulate the stock price, pay themselves huge salaries and bonuses, exercise their stock options in ways that only insiders can do. When it comes to the end of the string, common stock turns worthless, but the bondholders get paid anyway- they always do... Think of the SS Trust as common stock, and govt bonds as, well, bonds. The govt will do whatever is required to maintain solvency, which means meeting their debt obligations. Whatever is required, period.

Who owns that debt? The same people who engineered huge taxcuts for themselves, creating the need to borrow and the opportunity to invest in that venue... Govt debt is the lever that extreme wealth lacked to blunt the reform movement pre-WW1, and during the Great Depression. If you think things have been getting a little rough for the middle class, and they have, hold onto your ass, because you ain't seen nothin' yet...

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/49374/

 

[Moonbeam]

The wrath of God is the empty bellies of the poor. A saying

 

[BlancoNino]

The rich get richer because of acceleration. The more money you have, the more money you can have. The same applies with technology. Look at how much technology has grown in the past 50 years compared to the past 500 years. The more we know, the more we can know.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Low skill labor jobs are necessary but they should never become jobs that are meant to support a family. They should be temporary...for high school students and college kids or some guy who needs to get on his feet.

Unfortunately, society needs a lot of these low-skill jobs in order to function, and thus needs lots of people to work them.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Low skill labor jobs are necessary but they should never become jobs that are meant to support a family. They should be temporary...for high school students and college kids or some guy who needs to get on his feet.

Unfortunately, society needs a lot of these low-skill jobs in order to function, and thus needs lots of people to work them.

Fortunately, there are a lot of high school students and collge kids to fill these jobs.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Low skill labor jobs are necessary but they should never become jobs that are meant to support a family. They should be temporary...for high school students and college kids or some guy who needs to get on his feet.

Unfortunately, society needs a lot of these low-skill jobs in order to function, and thus needs lots of people to work them.

Fortunately, there are a lot of high school students and collge kids to fill these jobs.

unfortunately, that doesn't even come close to enough being enough people. Sorry try again.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Low skill labor jobs are necessary but they should never become jobs that are meant to support a family. They should be temporary...for high school students and college kids or some guy who needs to get on his feet.

Unfortunately, society needs a lot of these low-skill jobs in order to function, and thus needs lots of people to work them.

Fortunately, there are a lot of high school students and collge kids to fill these jobs.

unfortunately, that doesn't even come close to enough being enough people. Sorry try again.

Is there a shortage of low skill jobs? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that every low skill worker is a high school student or college kid, but there seems to be plenty of people to fill the jobs, if there wasn't then they would just have to bring wages up to attract more people.

 

[digiram]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: SViscusi
Which column did they add the trillions of dollars spent on military campaigns overseas to protect the interest of the rich?

So the poor aren't protected via the military? Only the rich? hmmm

Let's think... we leave Iraq, the price of oil goes up to $5 a gallon... who suffers more the rich or the poor?

Both will suffer about the same. The rich is dependent on the poor or what have you to consume. If the poor has to spend more on gas, less money goes towards spending other things and so on and so forth. So, expect a big hit on the overall economy.

BTW, how the hell do you know that leaving Iraq = increase in gas prices???

 

[mattjbak]

Overseas to protect interests of the rich... you do realize that most of the rich don't have interests overseas

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
The rich get richer because of acceleration. The more money you have, the more money you can have. The same applies with technology. Look at how much technology has grown in the past 50 years compared to the past 500 years. The more we know, the more we can know.

So true, technological creation will soon become self created as we create the first intelligent machines. They will soon become so sophisticated only they will understand themselves. And away we go. There will be no need for jobs at all.

 

[digiram]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
The rich get richer because of acceleration. The more money you have, the more money you can have. The same applies with technology. Look at how much technology has grown in the past 50 years compared to the past 500 years. The more we know, the more we can know.

So true, technological creation will soon become self created as we create the first intelligent machines. They will soon become so sophisticated only they will understand themselves. And away we go. There will be no need for jobs at all.

Wooooot!!!

 

[Jhhnn]

From mattjbak-

Overseas to protect interests of the rich... you do realize that most of the rich don't have interests overseas

Huh? They own the vast majority of stock in corporate America, and corporate America definitely has interests overseas- getting bigger all the time, as outsourcing and globalization continue...

 

[Icepick]

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: Icepick

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: SViscusi
Which column did they add the trillions of dollars spent on military campaigns overseas to protect the interest of the rich?

So the poor aren't protected via the military? Only the rich? hmmm

Let's think... we leave Iraq, the price of oil goes up to $5 a gallon... who suffers more the rich or the poor?

Well, the poor ARE the military. The rich send their sons to Yale and other ivy league schools while the poor are enticed to volunteer for the military. That way they can go to Iraq and come back maimed and torn so that the rich kids can enjoy the fruits of the brave soldiers' sacrifices.

So you're right, the poor are protected by the military too but, they also swell its ranks.

You'll probably dismiss this article / study, but the distribution of military members by income level is comparable to the rest of the US.

link

link

here's another link from someone who's anti-Bush:

link

Thanks for the links! I found that informative. :thumbsup:
I'd still feel better if all of the ultra wealthy young men were forced to serve a tour of duty in the military overseas prior to being admitted to Harvard, Yale or any other ivy league school.

 

[jedisponge]

Think about it: You live in a country with one of the highest standards of living in the world. Think about some hole in less than developed countries, and how it would be like to live there.

Some people should starting feeling like it's a goddamn privilege to live in the U.S., a country that's prosperous, has security and won't be demolished by militias trying to slit you and your family's throats. I sure freaking do.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: jedisponge
Think about it: You live in a country with one of the highest standards of living in the world. Think about some hole in less than developed countries, and how it would be like to live there.

Some people should starting feeling like it's a goddamn privilege to live in the U.S., a country that's prosperous, has security and won't be demolished by militias trying to slit you and your family's throats. I sure freaking do.

People who hate themselves are empty and can never be filled. They see no plus and magnify every minus they see. People who hate themselves are bitter about everything.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: jedisponge
Think about it: You live in a country with one of the highest standards of living in the world. Think about some hole in less than developed countries, and how it would be like to live there.

Some people should starting feeling like it's a goddamn privilege to live in the U.S., a country that's prosperous, has security and won't be demolished by militias trying to slit you and your family's throats. I sure freaking do.

You think we should turn a blind eye to the bad here because there is more bad elsewhere?