Don't bury AGP just yet

[DavidL6]

I decided to upgrade an older computer I have to use for nothing but distributed computing (World Community Grid), CF2, and FS9. It had a Leadtek A380 - 5950 Ultra video card. I installed a 7800 GS card a few days ago. It's almost UNBELIEVABLE how much difference there is between those two cards!

If you have a pretty good computer (CPU, PSU, RAM, etc.) don't listen to those that tell you to junk it and build a PCI-E system because yours is obsolete. You can upgrade your old video card and see a performance increase right now and upgrade to the latest and greatest DX 10 stuff in a year or so after things settle down a bit.

If you have an Intel P4 system take a look at eBay for good deals on CPU's. The Intel CPU's have dropped in price quite a bit and if you are careful you can get a CPU that would have cost you ~$500 a few months ago for less than half that amount. You can upgrade that old AGP system with a new video card and maybe a CPU for a lot less than a new PCI-E system will cost.

I switched from a 2.8 GHz Northwood to a 3.4 GHz Northwood at the same time I switched the 5950 Ultra for the 7800 GS and my 3DMark06 scores jumped from ~ 500 to ~ 3000. Cost, including shipping, was a tad under $400 and I still have both the 2.8 CPU and the 5950 video card. Haven't decided whether or not I am going to sell them (probably) or keep 'em for spares.


I still have my PCI-E system with a P4 670 and a 7800 GTX if I want to run something that needs a little more horsepower. (I'm also in the process of building a Conroe system and will be using some of the parts from this PCI-E system in it eventually.)

 

[DavidL6]

 

[RussianSensation]

I agree with you that there are situations where a videocard upgrade is far better bang for the buck than a full system build. In fact, in majority of cases upgrading the graphics card will yield far greater benefit for gaming than a cpu upgrade.

With that said there are reasons why people recommend upgrading to PCIe.

1. Core 2 duo cpus overclock extremely well which means that right now a $230 cpu will give you $1000 cpu performance with overclocking which is insane bang for the buck, not to mention most motherboards today will support quad core cpus thus slightly increasing the lifespan of today's motherboards.

2. A lot of games will or already benefit from 2 gigs of ram. Some people have 2x512mb of ram and games like BF2 or FEAR feel slower with 1 gig. Investing into obsolete 2x512 DDR1 ram isn't the best idea especially with DDR1 costing as much as DDRII.

3. AGP cards like 7800GS still cost $200+, and are far slower than comparable PCIe offerings ($250 gets you X1900XT!)

4. If you wont take the plunge to PCIe now, you'll spend that money on a full system later. So it makes no difference financially. In 1 case you make $400 upgrade and then buy $1000 system in 1 year. In another case you buy a full PCIe system with 2x1gb DDR2 ram, fast cpu, graphics for $1000 today and in 1 year make $400 upgrade to just the graphics card. The only difference is the level of performance enjoyed at different time spans.

5. A lot of users need extra processing power and not many have the ability to upgrade to a fast dual core (besides S939 AGP) processor. So they decide to just do the full out upgrade.

Plus no offence to AGP users, I was one of them (2.6ghz P4 @ 3.2ghz, 1 gig of ram, etc), but *everyone* anticipated on the forums the death of AGP, DDR2 becoming mainstream, etc. I sold my mobo, P4, 1 gig of ram for $250 1 month prior to Core 2 launch and collapse of P4 prices. So I guess the point here is next time a transition of technology of such scale occurs (ie. single to dual core, DDR1 to DDR2, AGP to PCIe, IDE to SATA all around the same time), it is probably wiser to cut down your losses earlier than later. A lot of AGP users did not do that and now they get offended when people tell them to buy a PCIe system aleady because they are investing $ into old technology which has almost no resale value.

But for the less hardcore users who dont require SLI/Crossfire, latest graphics and bragging rights of a 3.0ghz Core 2 duo processor, upgrading AGP graphics is still a decent option in terms of $ spent if one is on a budget. So enjoy

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DavidL6


If you have a pretty good computer (CPU, PSU, RAM, etc.) don't listen to those that tell you to junk it and build a PCI-E system because yours is obsolete.

your first mistake would be listening to advice here

i am holding onto my x850xt till i have to upgrade.

 

[Ackmed]

There is zero chance I would spend $400 on another CPU, and AGP card. I would much rather put the money towards a much faster PCIe card, for the same cash.

But hey, if you're happy thats all that matters. I do disagree with this part of your post, "You can upgrade that old AGP system with a new video card and maybe a CPU for a lot less than a new PCI-E system will cost.". You dont need a new system, you can just get a new mobo/cpu/video card. For the $400 you spent, I can find all three, not much more, and still be faster than what you got. A lot faster. As I said though, as long as you're happy. It looks like you're trying to justify your purchase with this post though.

 

[kopema]

Originally posted by: DavidL6
I switched from a 2.8 GHz Northwood to a 3.4 GHz Northwood at the same time I switched the 5950 Ultra for the 7800 GS and my 3DMark06 scores jumped from ~ 500 to ~ 3000.

About 90% of that gain came from the new video card, and about 10% came from the new CPU.

 

[shimsham]

dont forget a new psu in the upgrade path.

im ugrading from a 6200(modded to 6600) to a 6800gt. i have an xp@3200, 1 gig, 1280 limited lcd, and a 360w ps. "worst" case scenario i would have to spend 280 to get a jump enough to justify a guts rebuild from this old system. teh gt will only cost me 135. as a casual gamer, that 150 is a big deal, as i like to ugrade for free(ie: poker winnings[current rig was built on such funds], bonus from work). i couldve got an ultra for the same price, but knowing they thirst for power i didnt want to have to upgrade my ps just for a gpu when i know the day is coming that i will have to rebuild anyway, and that ps would be too little by then. not to mention all the parts i would get for that 280 are old by todays standards, even.

im happy about the path i took, just because i know itll keep me gaming happy. i dont need to drop 1000, or even 400, to make bf2 or civ4 more fun. plenty of other things i would rather drop that cash on, and my epenis is plenty big enough to satisfy already.

pcie is the way now though. its just a matter of time until a rebuild. but thats fine. ill be happy picking up others "old" stuff for cheap so i can play at my piddly 1280 res, medium/high settings and low shadows.

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
There is zero chance I would spend $400 on another CPU, and AGP card. I would much rather put the money towards a much faster PCIe card, for the same cash.

But hey, if you're happy thats all that matters. I do disagree with this part of your post, "You can upgrade that old AGP system with a new video card and maybe a CPU for a lot less than a new PCI-E system will cost.". You dont need a new system, you can just get a new mobo/cpu/video card. For the $400 you spent, I can find all three, not much more, and still be faster than what you got. A lot faster. As I said though, as long as you're happy. It looks like you're trying to justify your purchase with this post though.

If the X1950PRO in AGP is true then I'll spend the 300 for it and save myself the time of building a new rig. The problem for me is busy schedule as well as any new computer I build is going to have decent parts not a cheap core2 DUO board and low end processor. So if I can hold out for another year I will.

(Supposedly the AGP X1950 PRO has shown up in Best Buys computer system with an OCT 28th release date - THNX to Snakexor)

 

[Fenixgoon]

if you that that difference is unbelievable, you should see the difference between the 7800GS AGP and 7800GS PCI-E... the PCI-E version SMOKES its AGP counterpart. in addition, high AGP prices mean you could switch mobos (most likely) and still come out spending the same $$ for a new PCI-E mobo and the faster 7800GS

 

[Paratus]

If you own a skt 478 P4 then any upgrade is going to double the price of just a 7800 GS minimum

 

[Noema]

Though I'm aware of the inferiority of the 7800gs compared to its PCI-E counterpart, I got mine because I had a 754 socket, which would mean new mobo, CPU and GPU. So the 7800gs was a quick fix but a dramatic one since I had a 9600SE. Plus since I live outside the US it's easier for me to import just a video card and not all the aforementioned parts.


So far my 7800gs has been able to handle everything I've thrown to it, though Oblivion is one though cookie.

Crysis will be the real trial by fire, me thinks.

 

[imported_goku]

Guys might be interested in this thread.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=1918310

 

[Zebo]

$500..that's nuts for not much..Next time ask.

For less than $350 you could have got a 2.4Ghz A64, motherboard And X1900XT and blown doors off what you got.

$109 CPU and mobo
$239 X1900xt
http://promotions.newegg.com/AMD/AMD_motherboard/index.html


YES! Bury the AGP

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Zebo
$500..that's nuts for not much..Next time ask.

For less than $350 you could have got a 2.4Ghz A64, motherboard And X1900XT and blown doors off what you got.

$109 CPU and mobo
$239 X1900xt
http://promotions.newegg.com/AMD/AMD_motherboard/index.html


YES! Bury the AGP

it my case, staying with AGP was logical . . . i had a 9800xt that died in January . . . i o/c'd my 2.8c to 3.31Ghz [free] and bought an AGP x850xt for $200 . . . 10 months later i am still very satisfied with my gaming at 11x8

i would have HATED to change my CPU, MB and switched to PCIe just for a sidegrade then . . . now i am looking forward to a completely new rig . . .

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Zebo
YES! Bury the AGP

:thumbsup:

Investing money in dead-end technology seems pointless.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Zebo
YES! Bury the AGP

:thumbsup:

Investing money in dead-end technology seems pointless.

"investing" any money in current hardware is also pointless

. . . it ain't an investment.
:thumbsdown:

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: apoppin
"investing" any money in current hardware is also pointless

. . . it ain't an investment.
:thumbsdown:

Ok, throwing money then

You get the point. :laugh:

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Zebo
$500..that's nuts for not much..Next time ask.

For less than $350 you could have got a 2.4Ghz A64, motherboard And X1900XT and blown doors off what you got.

$109 CPU and mobo
$239 X1900xt
http://promotions.newegg.com/AMD/AMD_motherboard/index.html


YES! Bury the AGP

it my case, staying with AGP was logical . . . i had a 9800xt that died in January . . . i o/c'd my 2.8c to 3.31Ghz [free] and bought an AGP x850xt for $200 . . . 10 months later i am still very satisfied with my gaming at 11x8

i would have HATED to change my CPU, MB and switched to PCIe just for a sidegrade then . . . now i am looking forward to a completely new rig . . .

Why is it some people just don't get this.


I would have replaced my 9600XT by now with another obsolete AGP card if I hadn't just bought a new house. Other than gaming I'm very satisfied with the speed of my P4 3.2E (2 Gigs of Ram, ATI Theater Pro 550) A 7800 GS, X1650XT, or X1950PRO will tide me over for antother year until I build a new box. Another mid high end box not a cheap biostar board and leftover A64/P4D.


Hell I'm still playing FARCRY and enjoying it on my current card.

 

[XBoxLPU]

I think I already have the best AGP card anyway or at least close. 6800 Ultra

It is not that we want to bury AGP, it just is necessary when the AGP platform is dead on current technology

 

[mikeford]

As soon as the major elements of the next generation systems drop below the $/performance of the old systems, time to move on,

IF

You need to upgrade, or buy a new system.

As a super lagging tech bottom feeder, at least one of our aging PCs and maybe two will get upgraded agp video cards for more performance, and maybe one other for a cool, quiet, low power card.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Zebo
YES! Bury the AGP

:thumbsup:

Investing money in dead-end technology seems pointless.

"investing" any money in current hardware is also pointless

. . . it ain't an investment.
:thumbsdown:

Computers are not an investment but does'nt it make sense to get the most performance for least amount of money? Saving an old AGP socket 478 setup is dumb. It's not the northwoods that's a problem it's the AGP slot. At least get something like this.
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=12&l3=27&model=167&modelmenu=1

You know why.
a) PCIe cards are cheaper in same grade sometimes paying for mobo upgrade
b) you can only get the best performances with a PCIe card since they don't make them in AGP.

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Zebo
YES! Bury the AGP

:thumbsup:

Investing money in dead-end technology seems pointless.

"investing" any money in current hardware is also pointless

. . . it ain't an investment.
:thumbsdown:

Computers are not an investment but does'nt it make sense to get the most performance for least amount of money? Saving an old AGP socket 478 setup is dumb. It's not the northwoods that's a problem it's the AGP slot. At least get something like this.
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=12&l3=27&model=167&modelmenu=1

You know why.
a) PCIe cards are cheaper in same grade sometimes paying for mobo upgrade
b) you can only get the best performances with a PCIe card since they don't make them in AGP.

Sure
Where?

There's like 1 store in the US that sells them when I checked 6 months ago for ~175 bucks with shipping. 175+250 vid card upgrade gets me a nicer card for more money and I have to rebuild my system.

For casual gamers with AGP a simple AGP upgrade is still better than an entirely new build IMO

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Paratus

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Zebo
YES! Bury the AGP

:thumbsup:

Investing money in dead-end technology seems pointless.

"investing" any money in current hardware is also pointless

. . . it ain't an investment.
:thumbsdown:

Computers are not an investment but does'nt it make sense to get the most performance for least amount of money? Saving an old AGP socket 478 setup is dumb. It's not the northwoods that's a problem it's the AGP slot. At least get something like this.
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=12&l3=27&model=167&modelmenu=1

You know why.
a) PCIe cards are cheaper in same grade sometimes paying for mobo upgrade
b) you can only get the best performances with a PCIe card since they don't make them in AGP.

Sure
Where?

There's like 1 store in the US that sells them when I checked 6 months ago for ~175 bucks with shipping. 175+250 vid card upgrade gets me a nicer card for more money and I have to rebuild my system.

For casual gamers with AGP a simple AGP upgrade is still better than an entirely new build IMO

I was talking about when Poppin upgraded but i915/478 are still out there
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130539

But yeah, clearly the A64 deal I linked is the way to go ATM... one gets a board and a chip for the same price as a intel board which has sparse availability.

 

[Paratus]

Thanks for the link but the board looks like its skt 479 PM despite the name.

Trust me I wish I had a PCIe slot but for me at least a card upgrade is all I've got time and money for.

PS Apoppin & I tend to see things the same way about AGP at least

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Paratus
Thanks for the link but the board looks like its skt 479 PM despite the name.

Trust me I wish I had a PCIe slot but for me at least a card upgrade is all I've got time and money for.

PS Apoppin & I tend to see things the same way about AGP at least

I see things like him except this because I can't abide to game at low res low detail. You could keep your northwood for another 5 years and its' no big deal, but upgrading to the next card above the 7800GS/X850's will double your game play. 1950/GX2 would triple or quad it..G80 will.. well you get the point. Being capped on video is no fun.