Don't buy a BMW?

[JCH13]

THIS. I've owned two Lexus IS300's, driven a bunch of ES's of various age. They're fantastic cars. They're certainly miles ahead of my 135i in terms of reliability, cost of ownership, and build quality. But the 135i is a hell of a lot more fun to drive.

That said, I'd love to see some actual proof that BMW drivers drive more aggressive than people trucks, especially lifted ones.

http://jalopnik.com/science-confirms-that-bmw-and-prius-drivers-are-the-wor-1120783177

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/719932/BMW-drivers-voted-worst-on-road-poll

 

[PricklyPete]

 

[XavierMace]

Article A says it's rich people that's the problem, some of them happen to drive BMW's. It mentions Mercedes and Prius's as well. I don't see people ragging on them.

Article B doesn't have any actual scientific data just confirming that people hate BMW drivers.

 

[JCH13]

Article A says it's rich people that's the problem, some of them happen to drive BMW's. It mentions Mercedes and Prius's as well. I don't see people ragging on them.

Article B doesn't have any actual scientific data just confirming that people hate BMW drivers.

I'm sorry that no one cares enough to spend lots of money confirming that BMW drivers are dicks.

And for the record: I love ragging on Prius drivers. They're dicks too.

 

[agent00f]

Just really isn't the case... Parts for this car are outlandishly high. Everything costs more. Even spark plugs cost 2-3x as much because BMW tax. That's not even going through OEM. I think OEM spark plugs are $15+/piece. I got mine for about $11-12.

$400+ waterpump ain't fun either. This charge pipe I have to replace is $160 and that's the cheapest I found. Most list for $200-350. It's just a piece of aluminum or steel piping in most cases. The plastic version from BMW runs around $200 from what I've heard.

It's a plastic tube. That's all.

You probably shouldn't be buying german/lux cars if a few hundred dollar parts are a big deal.

 

[tracerbullet]

I've had my 1 Series for about 6 years, zero problems.

I have the Hankook V12 tires, they're not great but good bang for the buck. Stating the obvious your low mileage is either a misalignment (can fix) or you having a lot of fun (not the car's fault, well sort of...). PSS isn't stock and is of course expensive.

Tools weren't an issue for me, but I'm a car guy and DIY'er and already had everything I needed.

Charge pipe I replaced pro-actively, that is a known issue for sure.

I'm a "spirited" driver and I'm hitting 21 / 22 MPG with in-town driving between stoplights and very short stretches of highway (1 mile or less).

I'd buy the car all over again in a heartbeat.

 

[TridenT]

1 word: LEMON

 

[XavierMace]

And here I thought I wasn't getting a Christmas present.

 

[JCH13]

What'd you do now?

 

[Insomniator]

Thinking about a 128i, they are pretty cheap used and supposedly more reliable than the 135i's. Still quick too, but im sure if I ever drove a 135 after I'd just be sad.

 

[XavierMace]

Thinking about a 128i, they are pretty cheap used and supposedly more reliable than the 135i's. Still quick too, but im sure if I ever drove a 135 after I'd just be sad.

You have to keep in mind most of the reliability complaints come from the *35's with the N54 engine. In the 135i they switched from the N54 to N55 in 2010 as well as changing the auto from a conventional 6 speed auto with a 7 speed dual clutch (I LOVE this transmission). It's still never going to be a Toyota from a reliability standpoint and parts are needlessly expensive. I'm just under 90k on my 2011 and I generally drive pretty umm.... Enthusiastically. The only unexpected issue so far was the A/C system. All work has been done in the driveway. Here's the extent of the "major" work so far.

Water Pump at 78k - $450
A/C Compressor at 78k - $550
Turbo Charge Pipe at 82k - $300

Water pump happened close enough to the house that I was able to limp it home safely. Stock charge pipe blew about 15mi from the house, but I just took it easy and kept it on the surface streets. Regardless if you go with the 128i or the 135i, the thing that will come back to get you if you're used to a "normal" car is that even the little basic things aren't cheap and are often needlessly complicated. Like replacing the battery. You can't just go and buy a new one, you have to update the software to tell the car you replaced it. This requires $130 in software/tools. Admittedly if you're going to be wrenching yourself, that software is basically a necessity and worth it in the long run. But if all you wanted to do was replace your battery, it's going to drive you crazy.

The two biggest issues the older ones had were fuel pump and the motor mounts allowing the engine to rock too far forward and basically self destruct.

 

[MtnMan]

Wears out rear tires in 5K, gas mileage much lower than EPA rating...... What could it possibly be

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Wears out rear tires in 5K, gas mileage much lower than EPA rating...... What could it possibly be

Obviously it's not a well-designed car.

 

[bradly1101]

My brother had a 2002 in Black Forest green. He wound it up to 80 in third gear on the test drive (I was his wide-eyed kid brother along for the ride, he needed a lift to pick it up), it seemed to be even smoother in that rev range. It lasted a few years (it was used, but not that old), and died an electrical death (deep wires were smoking).

 

[YuliApp]

being BMW fan and having M235i and many new BMWs in family and friend circles in recent years, I can only confirm drastical decline in quality in recent years.
Truth to be said, it is probably not only BMW, but in general all european brands (Premium ones maybe have stronger decline), as the word goes here around in Germany's automotive heart

 

[Yuriman]

being BMW fan and having M235i and many new BMWs in family and friend circles in recent years, I can only confirm drastical decline in quality in recent years.
Truth to be said, it is probably not only BMW, but in general all european brands (Premium ones maybe have stronger decline), as the word goes here around in Germany's automotive heart

I'd heard the opposite, that European brands have generally been unreliable but have gotten better in the last few years. I don't have data to support that though.

Of course, vehicles have been increasing in complexity rapidly in the last decade or so, so it wouldn't surprise me if critical failure rates were higher.

 

[YuliApp]

As a German we always felt our cars were the best combination of design/reliability/performance, especially when considered 3+ year older or used market. But recently, electronics and profit got so out of the hands that cars are basically built here just for company fleet and 3 year reliability.
You can get for example Porsche Cayenne here for same money as VW of the same age just because repairs and maintenance is so heavy and expensive.

My love belongs to old cars, especially american ones, and most of all our darling we saved from being scrapped
https://imgur.com/gallery/lRjQ4

 

[PricklyPete]

I'd heard the opposite, that European brands have generally been unreliable but have gotten better in the last few years. I don't have data to support that though.

Of course, vehicles have been increasing in complexity rapidly in the last decade or so, so it wouldn't surprise me if critical failure rates were higher.

Both Audi and BMW are now in the top 5 brands for reliability according to Consumer Reports if you consider their results credible.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...ion/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

My anecdotal experience has been good with the BMW and Audi’s that I have owned over the last decade (currently Q7 for my wife and 335i Xdrive for myself).


Maintenance, parts, etc are definitely more costly. Also, I believe that German cars are significantly more sensitive to proper maintenance. If you treat a BMW like you treated your Civic or Fusion, you will have expensive problems (I have 0 data on this other than anecdotal experience from friends/family).

Now an FCA product ...dear baby jesus.

 

[YuliApp]

it is all question what they judge by reliability and how old year. I dont care much if light bulb is out in dashboard, but when our BMW killed spark plug 4 times in 3 days because of "software error", navi goes out because overheating, there is regular samsung laptop harddrive under the dash, etc...
I know BMWs are pretty awesome up to about 3 years, then it starts to fall apart from about all directions. But yes, not assuming other brands are really all that better. More like that all newer cars are worse then when it (imho) peaked about 2009+.

 

[PricklyPete]

1 word: LEMON

Everyone assumes you are talking about yourself and your life choices when you say that.

 

[PricklyPete]

it is all question what they judge by reliability and how old year. I dont care much if light bulb is out in dashboard, but when our BMW killed spark plug 4 times in 3 days because of "software error", navi goes out because overheating, there is regular samsung laptop harddrive under the dash, etc...
I know BMWs are pretty awesome up to about 3 years, then it starts to fall apart from about all directions. But yes, not assuming other brands are really all that better. More like that all newer cars are worse then when it (imho) peaked about 2009+.

Sure. Any statistical analysis will be limited in quality by its dataset.

All you are providing is anecdotal evidence. All empirical data I can find seems to be pointing to an opposite conclusion from what you are saying. By your measure, Land Rovers are amazing because my one friend has had a LR3 that has only needed maintenance.

 

[YuliApp]

of course statistically it is insignificant but it has not been only our car, pretty many new-ish BMWs in friend and family circle

but yes, land rovers are awesome (even though not really reliable, mine were perfect till recently when it all came at once)

 

[PricklyPete]

of course statistically it is insignificant but it has not been only our car, pretty many new-ish BMWs in friend and family circle

but yes, land rovers are awesome (even though not really reliable, mine were perfect till recently when it all came at once)

Understood. Just implying that we are really just perpetrating anecdotal/internet hearsay. Current empirical data seems to be pointing in the direction that German cars (particularly Audi/BMW) have been steadily improving in reliability.

Anecdotally I have had a good experience and so have a number of my friends (used to work for a German company and still keep up with a lot of them...they all own German cars). That doesn’t make them reliable...just like knowing someone who has had a trouble free Land Rover doesn’t make them reliable.

 

[eng2d2]

People in Europe desire american cars. Americans desire european cars. Asian desire either european or american. Toyota builds a good car. snickers.

 

[shortylickens]

I'm sorry that no one cares enough to spend lots of money confirming that BMW drivers are dicks.

And for the record: I love ragging on Prius drivers. They're dicks too.

In my neighborhood Acura drivers are probably the worst. They routinely do the dumbest shit and also get the angriest with everyone else.
To be clear, I do NOT think buying an Acura makes you a self-centered beautiful being.

I think being a self-centered beautiful being inclines you towards Acura.