Don't buy a BMW?

[Yuriman]

I've had plenty of $300+ repairs on my Toyotas. Every time I changed the timing belt & water pump, it was around $1k at the Toyota dealer. Granted, the repairs were considered wear/tear and service items but it's pretty much forced maintenance and necessary repairs in my book. I never had to worry about replacing the timing belt with my Chevy and Dodge vehicles because they used superior chains. I'm glad Toyota finally switched to chains on their current vehicles but that doesn't benefit me since my three Toyotas are older models with rubber timing belt. Thank goodness I had all three replaced the past year so I don't have to worry about it for the next 7-10 years. But forking out $3k to all the timing belt/water pump replacement sucked.

On my 90's Honda, the timing belt was $90 and I did the work in an afternoon. I guess it would have been a different story had I taken it to a dealer. However, this is basically service you'll only ever do twice, maybe three times in the life of a vehicle. My in-laws still had the original belt on their Civic when the transmission went at 285k. When I asked them how frequently they changed the transmission fluid, they were surprised that was something cars needed done. Not that I advise this sort of neglect, mind you.

My Insight just rolled past 225k and last year I had a leaky clutch master cylinder, which was a $60 part plus 45 minutes to install and bleed. Otherwise, I just put gas in it and change the oil when the light comes on.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Is insurance that high on used BMW? Over $2k a year on cheap used car?

All jokes about driving "style" aside, insurance can vary a LOT between different states/regions. My brother pays more than I do to insure a much older/cheaper car, and has lower policy limits and a better driving record than me, to boot.

If I lived where he did, and insisted on max coverages (which I do) my policy would probably be close to $180/mo.

 

[Ns1]

Is insurance that high on used BMW? Over $2k a year on cheap used car?

I pay $150+ on an 11 year old MCS for full coverage. Given the way I drive in said MCS, I find that reasonable.

FWIW I have 0 points on my license and this is through progressive ^_^

 

[ponyo]

I got my body repaired on my Activehybrid 5 from hitting a deer. My insurance was billed around $7500 and I was billed $200 deductible. The damage... wasn't visually much at all but god, the parts were expensive. The headlamp unit was $1500 just for the part, for example.

Damn, $200 deductible? How much do you pay for insurance? I carry $1k deductible on all my cars.

On my 90's Honda, the timing belt was $90 and I did the work in an afternoon. I guess it would have been a different story had I taken it to a dealer. However, this is basically service you'll only ever do twice, maybe three times in the life of a vehicle. My in-laws still had the original belt on their Civic when the transmission went at 285k. When I asked them how frequently they changed the transmission fluid, they were surprised that was something cars needed done. Not that I advise this sort of neglect, mind you.

My Insight just rolled past 225k and last year I had a leaky clutch master cylinder, which was a $60 part plus 45 minutes to install and bleed. Otherwise, I just put gas in it and change the oil when the light comes on.

OEM timing belt and water pump for Toyota is around $400 at the dealer just for parts even with the discount. I can get timing belt and water pump kit on Amazon that has some of the same OEM parts for little over $200 but I like 100% OEM for belts and pumps. I had the dealer change the timing belt on my '02 Tundra 2 months ago. The original belt had 124k miles and 15 years of service. Toyota recommends 90k or 7 years, whichever comes first. I think my dealer recommends the timing belt at 60k which is ridiculous. I was more worried about the age of the belt rather than miles. My BIL has 01 Tundra and he didn't get the original timing belt and water pump changed until he passed 200k. I've heard similar stories about Tundras and Land Cruisers. It's why I only insist on Toyota OEM for something critical as timing belt.

 

[jlee]

Damn, $200 deductible? How much do you pay for insurance? I carry $1k deductible on all my cars.


OEM timing belt and water pump for Toyota is around $400 at the dealer just for parts even with the discount. I can get timing belt and water pump kit on Amazon that has some of the same OEM parts for little over $200 but I like 100% OEM for belts and pumps. I had the dealer change the timing belt on my '02 Tundra 2 months ago. The original belt had 124k miles and 15 years of service. Toyota recommends 90k or 7 years, whichever comes first. I think my dealer recommends the timing belt at 60k which is ridiculous. I was more worried about the age of the belt rather than miles. My BIL has 01 Tundra and he didn't get the original timing belt and water pump changed until he passed 200k. I've heard similar stories about Tundras and Land Cruisers. It's why I only insist on Toyota OEM for something critical as timing belt.

The Aisin kit is all OEM-manufacturer parts - should be about $165 for timing belt kit with tensioner and water pump for a 2UZ-FE (4.7l V8).

 

[eng2d2]

Is insurance that high on used BMW? Over $2k a year on cheap used car?


I've had plenty of $300+ repairs on my Toyotas. Every time I changed the timing belt & water pump, it was around $1k at the Toyota dealer. Granted, the repairs were considered wear/tear and service items but it's pretty much forced maintenance and necessary repairs in my book. I never had to worry about replacing the timing belt with my Chevy and Dodge vehicles because they used superior chains. I'm glad Toyota finally switched to chains on their current vehicles but that doesn't benefit me since my three Toyotas are older models with rubber timing belt. Thank goodness I had all three replaced the past year so I don't have to worry about it for the next 7-10 years. But forking out $3k to all the timing belt/water pump replacement sucked.

Why dealer? nevermind i didnt see your reply above

 

[manly]

I can easily put a price on it - ~2-300/month in maintenance/repairs, ~200 in gas, ~180 insurance.

I bought a CPO 2014 F30 3 Series a year ago, and my monthly costs are more like:
maintenance - $30 (Bay Area hand car wash)
gas - $70 (7k miles per year)
insurance - $140

All told, I estimate first year TCO as approximately $7,300 but about $2k of that was tax. Edmunds estimated first year TCO to be $12k @ 15k annual mileage. I would've never bought the car if I thought the TCO was that high. For example, they have first year repairs at $1,100 even though that is the last year under the original 4-year warranty. (And year 1 financing at $933, also wildly excessive.)

I did spend $89 on a external lamp cover because mine had a little crack/break at the edge. It was entirely cosmetic but a simple DIY repair (even though I'm not a car guy). I suspect I bought the car with this minor damage but it was way too subtle to notice (for reference, I've kept the old cover in case I ever need a slightly broken one).

Also, my actual TCO is probably lower because I paid $22k (before tax) for the car, well optioned. I actually believe first year depreciation is closer to $1k than to $4k based on what I could possibly get if I had to sell the car today. I still have 2 years left on the limited CPO warranty and if maintenance/repair costs spike, I'll trade it in when the warranty runs out. Right now I'm hoping the car proves to be reliable and I'll drive it for the next 5+ years. I'm unhappy about the insurance cost, but a Wawanesa quote was no lower than what I'm paying Mercury now.

I know it's apples and oranges, but when I estimated TCO for a 3 year old F30 and a brand new Honda Accord, the Bimmer was only 17% more. Reason I would go with a new Accord is because it depreciates slowly and IMO it's worth paying the new car premium (for example, you can get Honda Sensing).

 

[Ns1]

lol 7k miles/year wtf. that's only 100 days of driving for me.

At that rate you'll only need one of those $100 oil changes every other year.

 

[ponyo]

The Aisin kit is all OEM-manufacturer parts - should be about $165 for timing belt kit with tensioner and water pump for a 2UZ-FE (4.7l V8).

Yeah, I saw Aisin kits on Amazon. If I had the ability to do the work myself, that's probably what I would use. But I saw some Youtube videos on how to change the timing belt and water pump and that's not something I want to do or have the ability to do. It's one of the few times I'm willing to pay the dealership to do the work.

 

[Yuriman]

The worst part was getting the damned crank pulley bolt off, it was torqued to 180 ft-lbs and hadn't moved in a decade.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

lol 7k miles/year wtf. that's only 100 days of driving for me.

At that rate you'll only need one of those $100 oil changes every other year.

My 335 has less than 25K on it and this month (on the 22nd I think) I will have had it new for five years. Allstate refused several times to believe we drove it so little and have to present the vehicle at the agent office for photographic documentation in order to retain <7K miles/year policy on it. We have two other cars that are daily drivers, but I work 60% from home so even that daily driver isn't accumulating miles a lot.

 

[KIAman]

Damn, $200 deductible? How much do you pay for insurance? I carry $1k deductible on all my cars.

I insure 2 cars with the same coverage and deductibles on both and I pay around $2800 per year. So that comes to around $117 per car per month, I think.

 

[TridenT]

I still stand by the fact that you shouldn't buy a BMW.

I don't care what rankings are saying about them. It's total BS. Consumer Reports listed them as #5 in reliability. There is NO WAY that they are #5. HOW IS HONDA BELOW THEM?

The number of things that go wrong on these cars is insane! I'm not talking small little things like you gotta replace bulbs (although those happen plenty), it's more like major massive failures like your water pump goes bad and that costs $500+ (THAT IS FOR CHEAP PARTS ONLINE AND NO LABOR). Your charge pipe blows off and you have to buy aftermarket (because OEM will explode again) AND you gotta get towed. AND THEN you have other massive issues like your drive shaft support bearings going bad, the flex disc, your actual drive shaft, the differential... etc etc etc. Big coolant leaks, and big oil leaks that are very difficult to fix. Try replacing the oil pan gasket. Gotta lift the engine for that one!

The amount of LARGE and COSTLY failures on this car is huge. Maybe Honda just has a lot of little things like bulbs and stuff not working that knocks them so much. I don't really get it.

At this point, buying a Prius and a literbike sounds like a better way to go. :|

 

[jlee]

I still stand by the fact that you shouldn't buy a BMW.

I don't care what rankings are saying about them. It's total BS. Consumer Reports listed them as #5 in reliability. There is NO WAY that they are #5. HOW IS HONDA BELOW THEM?

The number of things that go wrong on these cars is insane! I'm not talking small little things like you gotta replace bulbs (although those happen plenty), it's more like major massive failures like your water pump goes bad and that costs $500+ (THAT IS FOR CHEAP PARTS ONLINE AND NO LABOR). Your charge pipe blows off and you have to buy aftermarket (because OEM will explode again) AND you gotta get towed. AND THEN you have other massive issues like your drive shaft support bearings going bad, the flex disc, your actual drive shaft, the differential... etc etc etc. Big coolant leaks, and big oil leaks that are very difficult to fix. Try replacing the oil pan gasket. Gotta lift the engine for that one!

The amount of LARGE and COSTLY failures on this car is huge. Maybe Honda just has a lot of little things like bulbs and stuff not working that knocks them so much. I don't really get it.

At this point, buying a Prius and a literbike sounds like a better way to go. :|

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...ility-vs-stupid.2422040/page-15#post-38594623

 

[manly]

lol 7k miles/year wtf. that's only 100 days of driving for me.

At that rate you'll only need one of those $100 oil changes every other year.

Wow are you driving to Vegas every 2 weeks lol. I do wish I drove a bit more, as the cost per mile would decrease.

Annual oil change is fine by me, I stand a better chance of trouble free operation if I don’t wait for 10k miles.

 

[XavierMace]

I still stand by the fact that you shouldn't buy a BMW.

I don't care what rankings are saying about them. It's total BS. Consumer Reports listed them as #5 in reliability. There is NO WAY that they are #5. HOW IS HONDA BELOW THEM?

The number of things that go wrong on these cars is insane! I'm not talking small little things like you gotta replace bulbs (although those happen plenty), it's more like major massive failures like your water pump goes bad and that costs $500+ (THAT IS FOR CHEAP PARTS ONLINE AND NO LABOR). Your charge pipe blows off and you have to buy aftermarket (because OEM will explode again) AND you gotta get towed. AND THEN you have other massive issues like your drive shaft support bearings going bad, the flex disc, your actual drive shaft, the differential... etc etc etc. Big coolant leaks, and big oil leaks that are very difficult to fix. Try replacing the oil pan gasket. Gotta lift the engine for that one!

The amount of LARGE and COSTLY failures on this car is huge. Maybe Honda just has a lot of little things like bulbs and stuff not working that knocks them so much. I don't really get it.

At this point, buying a Prius and a literbike sounds like a better way to go. :|

As jlee has pointed out several times, you were warned about the $500 water pumps before hand. But I've never seen a car that's immune to water pump failures so acting like this is some unusual thing is a bit silly. The charge pipe is a known weak point, aggravated by upping the boost and aggressive driving. Although I managed to replace mine without being towed. I've had mine longer than you've had yours and I drive pretty aggressively. Mine has more miles, I've had zero bulb failures, no drive train issues, no coolant leaks, and the only oil leak was the gaskets on the oil cooler which a child could replace. You've also complained about how fast you're going through your PSS's. Last you mentioned them, I had double the mileage on mine and they're still going strong.

Perhaps your driving style is a factor. You remind me of that kid that posted videos of him beating the ever loving crap out of his new M, then wanting all the damage covered by warranty. The dealer just laughed at him and said no.

I do think buying a literbike is a good solution though as one way or the other that should put an end to these threads of yours.

 

[Ns1]

Wow are you driving to Vegas every 2 weeks lol. I do wish I drove a bit more, as the cost per mile would decrease.

I bang this out 4x a week round trip, 50 miles each way. Let's just say it takes me less than 73 minutes.

I kind of understand the OP though - everyone is warned about the extremely high ongoing ownership costs. Actually experiencing it though is still kind of shell shocking.


See my own Mini thread for proof of this =D

 

[x26]

My 335 has less than 25K on it and this month (on the 22nd I think) I will have had it new for five years. Allstate refused several times to believe we drove it so little and have to present the vehicle at the agent office for photographic documentation in order to retain <7K miles/year policy on it. We have two other cars that are daily drivers, but I work 60% from home so even that daily driver isn't accumulating miles a lot.

Hehe. My 335 has <25,000 miles as well. Mint Condition.

Insurance = $700.00 per year full coverage
$500,000/300,000 liability
$100 Comp
$500 Collision

Geico

ETA: Just Oil Changes at dealer and simple Maintenance like Spark Plugs/Filters, etc which I do myself

And 1 DSC Module=$2,100.00 part/$400.00 Labor

Take good Care of your BMW and it will take good care of You!!

 

[repoman0]

Gets 13-16 mpg in an 18-25 RWD car, wonders why rear tires last 10k miles.

That said, I agree with the sentiment (minus the bit about the tools :| ). I wouldn't buy another BMW for a daily, though I own two right now (both pushing 15 years old). I'll be keeping one of them indefinitely and driving the other until it falls apart, which is looking to be soon, and replacing it with something ... less prone to falling apart.

I'm laughing at my old post in this thread. I sold my 15 year old 330i shortly after this post with 175k miles, bought a newer 2014 Subaru WRX hatchback ... and resold that within three months to buy another 15 year old BMW (330xi this time with the rare 6 speed manual). Just got back from a very snowy trip through Vermont to Lake Placid NY and it was unstoppable in the snow and ice, and through -15 degree cold starts. I guess I decided a few hundred bucks a year in replacement parts and a greasy day or two is better than a car payment. Plus the interior is such a nice place to be in comparison to the Subie, despite being designed in the mid-late 90s.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I'm laughing at my old post in this thread. I sold my 15 year old 330i shortly after this post with 175k miles, bought a newer 2014 Subaru WRX hatchback ... and resold that within three months to buy another 15 year old BMW (330xi this time with the rare 6 speed manual). Just got back from a very snowy trip through Vermont to Lake Placid NY and it was unstoppable in the snow and ice, and through -15 degree cold starts. I guess I decided a few hundred bucks a year in replacement parts and a greasy day or two is better than a car payment. Plus the interior is such a nice place to be in comparison to the Subie, despite being designed in the mid-late 90s.

I thought I'd retire my e39 from daily driving by now, but I pretty much hate every alternative. I've had a premature tstat failure, but every other failure was just from old rubber on a car that wasn't driven enough. The real expense has been all the stupid addons.

 

[TridenT]

Hehe. My 335 has <25,000 miles as well. Mint Condition.

Insurance = $700.00 per year full coverage
$500,000/300,000 liability
$100 Comp
$500 Collision

Geico

ETA: Just Oil Changes at dealer and simple Maintenance like Spark Plugs/Filters, etc which I do myself

And 1 DSC Module=$2,100.00 part/$400.00 Labor

Take good Care of your BMW and it will take good care of You!!

BS. I've been meticulous with maintenance on this thing and it's been breaking parts like they're kitkats.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

BS. I've been meticulous with maintenance on this thing and it's been breaking parts like they're kitkats.

AND THEN you have other massive issues like your drive shaft support bearings going bad, the flex disc, your actual drive shaft, the differential...

These are all "I've been driving like an asshole" parts. Maybe stop doing burnouts and gas-stomping wheel hops.

 

[Ns1]

Maybe stop doing burnouts and gas-stomping wheel hops.

if BMW didn't want us to do burnouts and wheel hops maybe those bastards shouldn't have made their cars so fun to drive

 

[TridenT]

These are all "I've been driving like an asshole" parts. Maybe stop doing burnouts and gas-stomping wheel hops.

I don't do any burnouts or wheel hopping. That wouldn't get me around those turns any faster or up to speed as quickly!

 

[PricklyPete]

I don't do any burnouts or wheel hopping. That wouldn't get me around those turns any faster or up to speed as quickly!

Credibility meter is reading low.