Don't let a non car person borrow your DCT equipped car!

[npaladin-2000]

lmao, I think you have a poor understanding of what experience means in this context...

No, I don't. "Experience" is what manual fanbois (as distinct from "people who like manual transmissions mind you) use to look down on those who don't like manual transmissions now that "performance" and "efficiency" are no longer valid, winning arguments.

I don't mind people who like manual transmissions and are willing to accept that others may disagree. I have an issue with those fanbois who think only by using a manual is one doing "true" driving and all others are simply fat lazy slobs who know nothing about how to motor. Especially when I can generally drive rings around them. In an automatic, mind you.

 

[alevasseur14]

As has been said, not everyone cares about lap times or the 'best' transmission types. I've had a couple friends over the years go out and learn to drive a manual and then purchase a manual vehicle. Every one of them said it felt more fun to drive a manual. Yeah, fun while driving means different things to everyone but having driven manuals for 10 years myself, I knew what they meant. They are terrible at driving a manual so far but they aren't stalling anymore! Hell, I just went from a cable-clutch 5sp VW to a hydraulic 6sp Audi and it's still giving me fits!

Everyone keep calm and continue driving, mmmkay?

 

[Throckmorton]

yes I have... I've had a couple mustangs (99 cobra and 03 cobra) and a c6z06 along with a few motorcycles (600rr, 1000rr and 08 hayabusa)... I don't miss them at all compared to the dct in my gtr

I don't care how fast you think you are at shifting (in general... not you specifically)... a dct will be faster and cleaner

edit: should have also said I'm more of a drag racer then twistys person (like 60/40)

I don't care about speed, I care about fun.

 

[Elganja]

I don't care about speed, I care about fun.

speed = fun ... FOR ME

 

[MagickMan]

Why does no one understand this...
I do not care how fast a computer can shift my car.... In any way, at all.
If you really ENJOY DRIVING, manual is much more enjoyable.

I do not give a shit if a DCT or whatever stupid automatic can shift 1,2,3 seconds, or 1 minute faster than I can, I enjoy driving my car, not having it do all the work so I just hold onto a steering wheel. What fun would that be?

For pure driving experience, there will never be a replacement for rowing you own... Now shut it!

I wish there was a way to add rep to a post on AT. :thumbsup:

 

[MagickMan]

Says you.

PS like the climate warming crowd changed their tune to climate change.

The manual guys went from sticks perform better, to its about the 'experience' . Esperance's are individual, yet you manual fanboi's seem to have your nose's up in the air like anyone not driving a stick is some sort of lapper.

You're the one acting like a prat over what type of transmission a person prefers. Do whatever the f*ck you want, buy what you want, those of us who prefer 3 pedals already know what we like and why we like it.

 

[Ferzerp]

Wow, I brought out the crazies who get their panties in a wad about what kind of drive trains others choose for their cars...

 

[npaladin-2000]

Wow, I brought out the crazies who get their panties in a wad about what kind of drive trains others choose for their cars...

If you think about it, the expectation that a DCT will act like an "automatic" comes from certain people billing it as an "automatic" rather than a DCT. So a non car person expects it to be smooth and slushy at slow speeds like an automatic. Rather than sharp like a DCT. SO how one refers to them is a valid debate and is probably affecting adoption and acceptance to consumers in the USA.

 

[NutBucket]

There's more to it than that. A DCT in a "normal" car like a Focus doesn't make sense to me. A Focus isn't a performance car and therefore shouldn't be saddled with a harsh drivetrain. Now if we're talking GT-Rs and 911s a DCT makes perfect sense. Get it?

 

[hans007]

Its crazy how this same argument always comes out whenever someone mentions some advanced auto.

I have a zf 8 speed and its great but I can drive a manual though not very good at it. Just didn't learn or grow up on one . Barely any non car enthusiast do in LA. But I learned at some point and it is more fun at least to me if its a decent transmission. Makes even crappy cars feel involving.

My current car is an all around type good performer but sometimes I wish it was more focused on really being connected to driving . Still a great car but sometimes I think cars have become too luxurious. That said I'm plotting how to buy my next car with pdk/dct. Never had one so gotta try it.

 

[Born2bwire]

There's more to it than that. A DCT in a "normal" car like a Focus doesn't make sense to me. A Focus isn't a performance car and therefore shouldn't be saddled with a harsh drivetrain. Now if we're talking GT-Rs and 911s a DCT makes perfect sense. Get it?

Fuel economy. One could go with the CVT but I'd wager that you would get just as many complaints about a CVT as a DCT. The biggest problem with them is simply that they are different from a typical automatic or manual transmission that folks are used to. The DCT takes getting used to on starting from a stop and it has added engine braking compared to an automatic. A CVT feels more disconnected and lacking in power.

 

[Born2bwire]

Did I just time warp?

 

[Eureka]

In terms of actual, pragmatic car driving, there's very little reason left in getting a manual. DCTs do it better for performance, CVTs do it better for economy.

But sure as hell no one is separating me from my manual.

 

[NutBucket]

If you think about it, the expectation that a DCT will act like an "automatic" comes from certain people billing it as an "automatic" rather than a DCT. So a non car person expects it to be smooth and slushy at slow speeds like an automatic. Rather than sharp like a DCT. SO how one refers to them is a valid debate and is probably affecting adoption and acceptance to consumers in the USA.

Exactly this. I keep coming back to the Focus since 99% of Focus buyers don't care what kind of transmission they have as long as they can put it in D and drive. That attitude seems far better suited to a CVT since that kind of driver wants smoothness and drivability, not absolute shifting speed.

 

[JCH13]

Exactly this. I keep coming back to the Focus since 99% of Focus buyers don't care what kind of transmission they have as long as they can put it in D and drive. That attitude seems far better suited to a CVT since that kind of driver wants smoothness and drivability, not absolute shifting speed.

Ironic that you imply that a DCT has a faster shifting time than a CVT, which of course never shifts.

 

[NutBucket]

I guess I phrased that poorly. Should have said "absolute performance".

Though technically the CVT does shift. Its constantly changing ratios to keep the engine in its powerband. So bite me

 

[JCH13]

I guess I phrased that poorly. Should have said "absolute performance".

Though technically the CVT does shift. Its constantly changing ratios to keep the engine in its powerband. So bite me

I'm just jerkin' your chain.

 

[basslover1]

I've never driven an automatic that wasn't attached to an econobox, older Kias or Hyundais etc. or on larger trucks and vans so I don't have much experience in the auto tranny world.

I've had my car for nine years and I've only been driving for 11 so it would be very difficult for me to give up a manual transmission. I get a thrill out of coming up on a right hand turn onto a three lane street and down shifting into second to put the car into the power band and just romping it out of the turn. Of course you can still take the same turn hard in an auto, but there's something about down shifting to second with a bit of engine braking on top of it, that just gives driving a different experience.

Now of course getting stuck behind the asshole that bounces back and forth between 40 and 50, which forces me to downshift to 4th constantly because my car has zero power in 5th at 1.5k RPMs makes me want to strangle someone, but it's a trade-off.

 

[SparkyJJO]

You guys are utterly ridiculous on both sides.

Neither one of you can say one is definitely better than the other. Both have their pros and cons. You might think manuals are a nuisance, or you might think an automatic is boring. Fine. Get what YOU want for your car. But there is no need to trash somebody else over preferring the opposite of what you like. So others like what you don't, or may be "fanbois" or whatever you want to call them - GET OVER IT. You aren't going to change their minds, and you don't need to either.

There are times I wish my Camaro had a manual (even though I suck at driving stick as I'm not experienced with it). But then, when I get stuck in traffic I'm glad I have the auto.

 

[michal1980]

You guys are utterly ridiculous on both sides.

Neither one of you can say one is definitely better than the other. Both have their pros and cons. You might think manuals are a nuisance, or you might think an automatic is boring. Fine. Get what YOU want for your car. But there is no need to trash somebody else over preferring the opposite of what you like. So others like what you don't, or may be "fanbois" or whatever you want to call them - GET OVER IT. You aren't going to change their minds, and you don't need to either.

There are times I wish my Camaro had a manual (even though I suck at driving stick as I'm not experienced with it). But then, when I get stuck in traffic I'm glad I have the auto.

your wrong.

the guys with automatics rarely come into threads boosting about how awesome their transmission is.

meanwhile the stick guys just pull their wankers out any chance they get.

 

[npaladin-2000]

your wrong.

the guys with automatics rarely come into threads boosting about how awesome their transmission is.

meanwhile the stick guys just pull their wankers out any chance they get.

Well, outside of the high-po and exotic arena, there really aren't many "awesome" automatics, or DCTs. And no CVTs, frankly, though Subaru might be on to something with their Si-CVT. But if your automatic doesn't say "Mazda SkyActiv" or your DCT isn't called "VW DSG" then there isn't a lot to boast about anyway.

 

[MagickMan]

your wrong.

the guys with automatics rarely come into threads boosting about how awesome their transmission is.

meanwhile the stick guys just pull their wankers out any chance they get.

Saying "I prefer manuals" is "pulling out your wanker"? The only thing I can figure is you have a huge fear of exclusion due to an inferiority complex, Freud would have had a field day with you. :hmm:

 

[nerp]

your wrong.

the guys with automatics rarely come into threads boosting about how awesome their transmission is.

meanwhile the stick guys just pull their wankers out any chance they get.

Not true. I verbally masturbate on these forums about my 8-speed transmission and have crossed the line into being a bit holier than thou. The thing is I was always a manual kind of guy and never drove automatics, save one episode in a bad VW Golf. So I think that gives me the justification for all the puffery about my ZF's superiority for all reasons.

I've been quiet as of late though because the argument is tiring and all the same. And I do believe that a stick is best for a less powerful car, especially small hatches and little city cars that are fun to wring around corners and scamper about.

It's funny, because the argument is often about simplicity, with pro-stick folks saying it's a more raw, hand-in-the-car type of experience. More simple. But really, it is more simple when it's gas means go, brake means stop.

I hate the idea of a single pedal with active braking. If you think people drive too jerky, just wait. It will look like jackrabbits out there and a whole lot more kids will be getting carsick.

 

[nerp]

Well, outside of the high-po and exotic arena, there really aren't many "awesome" automatics, or DCTs. And no CVTs, frankly, though Subaru might be on to something with their Si-CVT. But if your automatic doesn't say "Mazda SkyActiv" or your DCT isn't called "VW DSG" then there isn't a lot to boast about anyway.

Eh? ZF 8 and 9-speed transmissions are standard equipment on many sub $30,000 cars in addition to Rolls Royce, Audi and others. And that is an awesome automatic.

 

[npaladin-2000]

Eh? ZF 8 and 9-speed transmissions are standard equipment on many sub $30,000 cars in addition to Rolls Royce, Audi and others. And that is an awesome automatic.

"Many? " Which cars are it in? It's also not just the number of gears but how smoothly and quickly it shifts, and how it behaves in manual mode. And how much our how little slush is in there. I must confess to never having tried that tranny so I don't know these things, I'm asking. But I don't recall seeing it on many under-$30k cars. Except possibly the full-size Chrysler/Dodge platform, but even many of those are over the $30k mark.