Don't Panic.

[NeenerNeener]

As we have been reminded today that we are all still vulnerable to acts of terrorism, it's tempting to throw blame around. A major ally of the US has been struck by acts of cowardice; and we are reminded of when we were attacked and how vulnerable we remain after over three years. One thing to remember is that our courage is part of what defines us.

Terrorism is impossible to eliminate. It is an act by those that feel powerless to affect real change and lack the courage to try. We will always be vulnerable to it. All we can do is try our best to protect ourselves here at home. This means calling your congressman and putting pressure on them to remain vigilant and creative in our defense. Do this before you start blaming liberals or blaming conservatives.

For today at least, out of respect for those who have died or been injured, chill out people!

For this thread I'd like to see some ideas as to how we can be safer.

 

[Genx87]

Close our borders down.

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Close our borders down.

All borders? Or do you mean keep illegal immigrants out?

All borders = no tourism = not good for the economy

 

[InfectedMushroom]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Close our borders down.

what a lovely solution.
how about just killing everyone else in the world. that way we'll be safe, right?

 

[NeenerNeener]

But what about all the trade over the borders courtesy of NAFTA? What about terrorists with visas that arrive by plane? I agree that we need better border security. What about cargo containers?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: NJDevil

Originally posted by: Genx87
Close our borders down.

All borders? Or do you mean keep illegal immigrants out?

All borders = no tourism = not good for the economy

What do you honestly think?

What have we all debated to the end of time on this msgboard?
Put the guard on the border and make sure people cant simply walk over it.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom

Originally posted by: Genx87
Close our borders down.

what a lovely solution.
how about just killing everyone else in the world. that way we'll be safe, right?

Its a big leap from closing the borders to mass genocide. How did you make it?

 

[Infohawk]

This reminds me of totalcommand's thread and I have the same problem with it.

There is no reason to limit our speech. We should be discussing MORE ideas not less ideas. This is not a funeral. This is P&N. Talk about whatever you want. Blame whoever you want, but have a reason for doing so. Again, after 9/11, there was not enough honest debate and it led us to a bad place.

 

[Sixtyfour]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Close our borders down.

I agree, it would be great if you all stay in.

 

[InfectedMushroom]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom

Originally posted by: Genx87
Close our borders down.

what a lovely solution.
how about just killing everyone else in the world. that way we'll be safe, right?

Its a big leap from closing the borders to mass genocide. How did you make it?

his solution to combating terrorism seems to be not allowing anyone to come into the US. pretty much equal to fvck everyone else. typical of the view of many americans, that an american life is worth more than the life of any other human being. which is in part what has led to terorism in the world.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom

Originally posted by: Genx87
Close our borders down.

what a lovely solution.
how about just killing everyone else in the world. that way we'll be safe, right?

Its a big leap from closing the borders to mass genocide. How did you make it?

his solution to combating terrorism seems to be not allowing anyone to come into the US. pretty much equal to fvck everyone else. typical of the view of many americans, that an american life is worth more than the life of any other human being. which is in part what has led to terorism in the world.

Hmmm. The Muslim faith thrives here in America and they are free to worship under our laws. Compare and contrast that with the Islamic fundie pronouncement "Kill all the infidels."

So who, precisely, is REALLY saying "Fvck everyone else?"

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
So who, precisely, is REALLY saying "Fvck everyone else?"

There was a poster on this board who said "non-American lives don't matter." It's fairly safe to assume he thought "fvck everyone else."

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
So who, precisely, is REALLY saying "Fvck everyone else?"

There was a poster on this board who said "non-American lives don't matter." It's fairly safe to assume he thought "fvck everyone else."

Must you regularly take my statements out of context? It's quite dishonest.

 

[NeenerNeener]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
This reminds me of totalcommand's thread and I have the same problem with it.

There is no reason to limit our speech. We should be discussing MORE ideas not less ideas. This is not a funeral. This is P&N. Talk about whatever you want. Blame whoever you want, but have a reason for doing so. Again, after 9/11, there was not enough honest debate and it led us to a bad place.

Who said anything about limiting speech? Why would I start a thread and discourage people from posting on it. I'm just saying assess the problem and not the blame, at least for today.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: NeenerNeener
Who said anything about limiting speech? Why would I start a thread and discourage people from posting on it. I'm just saying assess the problem and not the blame, at least for today.

To me, don't put blame = limit your thinking. There's no point to wait. This is the same stuff that's been happening for a while now. Spain, 9/11, pre-9/11.

 

[NeenerNeener]

Okay, fine, I give. Who's fault is it that London got attacked besides the attackers? Who do you blame? Have at it.

 

[f95toli]

One thing that always strikes me being a bit odd is that it seems many americans that post in P&N really believe that there is a way to completely eliminate the risk of a terrorist attack.

There isn't. It is a risk we have to live with.

It is simply impossible to prevent attacks like those in London. Sure, with good intelligence you might be able to prevent 90% of the attacks but what about the remaining 10%? There is simply no way to protect whole cities.

And just to put things into perspective, so far 38 people have died in London. Of course that is a tragedy but there are 8 million people living in London, how many do you think dies in e.g road accidents (or even violent crimes) every year?

Compared to that the risk of being killed in a terrorist attack is pretty insignificant.


We need to keep this in mind when discussing what to do.

 

[InfectedMushroom]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken


So who, precisely, is REALLY saying "Fvck everyone else?"

who? american's who think that the life of an american citizen is worth more than the life of any other human being on this planet, that's who.

any other questions?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: f95toli
One thing that always strikes me being a bit odd is that it seems many americans that post in P&N really believe that there is a way to completely eliminate the risk of a terrorist attack.

There isn't. It is a risk we have to live with.

It is simply impossible to prevent attacks like those in London. Sure, with good intelligence you might be able to prevent 90% of the attacks but what about the remaining 10%? There is simply no way to protect whole cities.

And just to put things into perspective, so far 38 people have died in London. Of course that is a tragedy but there are 8 million people living in London, how many do you think dies in e.g road accidents (or even violent crimes) every year?

Compared to that the risk of being killed in a terrorist attack is pretty insignificant.

We need to keep this in mind when discussing what to do.

There is always a risk of random violence. But clearly, British people don't need to live with as high as a risk as they do now. Their hightened risk is directly related to their government's involvement in Iraq.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
So who, precisely, is REALLY saying "Fvck everyone else?"

There was a poster on this board who said "non-American lives don't matter." It's fairly safe to assume he thought "fvck everyone else."

Must you regularly take my statements out of context? It's quite dishonest.

Ummmm... I said "a poster". I didn't say you. What statement did I take out of context?

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: NeenerNeener


Terrorism is impossible to eliminate.

Originally posted by: Infohawk
after 9/11, there was not enough honest debate and it led us to a bad place.

Originally posted by: f95toli
It is a risk we have to live with.

It is simply impossible to prevent attacks like those in London.

qfp

 

[conjur]

Quite the paucity of ideas related to the OP in here.


IMO, what needs to be done is intense pressure on the leaders of the Middle East (esp. the Saudi royal family) to start rooting out the sources of terrorism within their own countries. They must stop harboring and fostering the hatred that feeds these psychotic egomaniacs. Going full-bore on alternative fuel research and nuclear power here in this country will take away the power the Middle East holds over the rest of the world.

There is one drawback to the future end of oil, though. What are all of the governments in the Middle East going to do for revenue when the oil is gone or people are dependent upon oil anymore?

 

[NeenerNeener]

Originally posted by: conjur
Quite the paucity of ideas related to the OP in here.


IMO, what needs to be done is intense pressure on the leaders of the Middle East (esp. the Saudi royal family) to start rooting out the sources of terrorism within their own countries. They must stop harboring and fostering the hatred that feeds these psychotic egomaniacs. Going full-bore on alternative fuel research and nuclear power here in this country will take away the power the Middle East holds over the rest of the world.

There is one drawback to the future end of oil, though. What are all of the governments in the Middle East going to do for revenue when the oil is gone or people are dependent upon oil anymore?

I generally agree, though, I wonder how feasible that is. Don't forget, the terrorists that committed todays acts are most likely living in Europe. Though Europeans seem more likely to comply with your suggestion than nations in the ME. Saudi Arabia is a sticky situation because there is a wide economic gap between the royal family and the working class, much of which is foreign middle-easterners living a sh!te life.

On your second point I couldn't agree more. I felt that it was apparent back in 2001 that we should immediately begin weaning ourselves off the oil tittie. If anything should have been a wakeup call, that should have been.

As far as the worry of the loss of oil revenue to Saudi Arabia or Iraq...
In Saudi Arabia, they seem less inclined to distribute the riches we pay them to the people as it is. In Iraq, they've got over 20 trillion bucks worth of oil reserves to sell. They won't be hurting.

I would also like to add that we need to distance ourselves from Israel. They have their own weapons, courtesy of us. I don't think we should remain involved in that conflict. They and the palestinians have been proving on a smaller scale what we are learning on a large scale for years. Violence always begets violence. Palestine with suicide bombers or Israel with tanks...it's the same concept in my mind.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur
Quite the paucity of ideas related to the OP in here.


IMO, what needs to be done is intense pressure on the leaders of the Middle East (esp. the Saudi royal family) to start rooting out the sources of terrorism within their own countries. They must stop harboring and fostering the hatred that feeds these psychotic egomaniacs. Going full-bore on alternative fuel research and nuclear power here in this country will take away the power the Middle East holds over the rest of the world.

There is one drawback to the future end of oil, though. What are all of the governments in the Middle East going to do for revenue when the oil is gone or people are dependent upon oil anymore?

I agree with you 100%, in princicple. irl, politics doesn't work that way (intense pressure), particularly when a place like SA holds the primary keys to the economic petroleum kingdom of the world (At least for now, which will segue into your second statement.) Because of prevailing public opinion in SA, the US can only apply so much pressure for them to change. Let's be honest. What are we going to do if we apply immense pressure and they give the US a big FU? Not much.

Once the oil in SA is bled dry, they will either get with the program or become an insignificant, 3rd-world country begging for help. Fortunes and the related finanacing of terror will dry up. How long will that take though? 30 years? 50 years? 100 years? Longer? Can we afford to wait that long before change comes along?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur
Quite the paucity of ideas related to the OP in here.


IMO, what needs to be done is intense pressure on the leaders of the Middle East (esp. the Saudi royal family) to start rooting out the sources of terrorism within their own countries. They must stop harboring and fostering the hatred that feeds these psychotic egomaniacs. Going full-bore on alternative fuel research and nuclear power here in this country will take away the power the Middle East holds over the rest of the world.

There is one drawback to the future end of oil, though. What are all of the governments in the Middle East going to do for revenue when the oil is gone or people are dependent upon oil anymore?

I agree with you 100%, in princicple. irl, politics doesn't work that way (intense pressure), particularly when a place like SA holds the primary keys to the economic petroleum kingdom of the world (At least for now, which will segue into your second statement.) Because of prevailing public opinion in SA, the US can only apply so much pressure for them to change. Let's be honest. What are we going to do if we apply immense pressure and they give the US a big FU? Not much.

Once the oil in SA is bled dry, they will either get with the program or become an insignificant, 3rd-world country begging for help. Fortunes and the related finanacing of terror will dry up. How long will that take though? 30 years? 50 years? 100 years? Longer? Can we afford to wait that long before change comes along?

If it weren't for the Bush/Saud relationships, we wouldn't be so dependent upon Saudi Arabia itself. What we need are both of those family lines to die out. (And, NO, I'm not wishing immediate death upon them.)

Neither of these families are going to instigate change unless their citzenry demand it. Trouble is, most of America is apathetic and most of Saudi Arabia is too fearful.