Dont pass judgement on bulldozer yet...

[Prowl33]

Is it possible everyone is coming to a die hard conclusion too soon? I won't pretend to know everything about processor architecture, because I don't, but what I have seen is this.

The bulldozer performs a lot better on some motherboards than others (look at asus reviews vs asrock reviews) and you see a decent difference. This tells me that some of the problem may be firmware/driver related, correct?

Next, windows 8 handles the processor better than windows 7. Could it be possible for some operating system updates to take better advantage of this processors strengths?

Also, we have seen programs made to thrive on multicore processors do much better on bulldozer. So as new versions of applications and new games come out, bulldozer can potentially work a lot better.

These tests are done from a controlled environment. Multitasking seems like it may be this processors strength, so real world use may close the gap a bit.

All of these different things considered, what is an underperforming processor now could be a great value 6 months to a couple years from now. Anyone remember amd 64? Pretty crappy initial launch, ended up just being ahead of its time.

My point I'm tying to get across, its not a horrible processor, its just not incredibly effecient yet. Reserve your finale judgements atlease until some firmware/driver updates come out, and to see if Microsoft decides to optimize windows 7 for bulldozer.

My fx-8150 is sitting in my office right now and I'm itching to install it. Gonna be a few days until I can install, and am excited to see what potential this processor really has.

 

[eternalone]

Yeah I think I will pass judgment when several professional hardware reviewers and a former AMD engineer clearly have stated that Automated Design = 20% Bigger, 20% Slower, and even an Athlon x4 scores better in some situations. Bulldozer is a step down from Phenom 2 in performance and in power usage. Thuban is the wiser choice. Could they somehow do a bios fix I dunno maybe, but the problem is architecture not bios, IMO.

But as I said if they priced these at $89 bucks I would upgrade to them, because they would be offering a value beneath a hundred dollars.

 

[ShadowVVL]

well prowl I think its an interesting idea and worth exploring. I haven't seen how it performs on other motherboards and would like to see how it performs under win8 and linux.

Yeah I think I will pass judgment when several professional hardware reviewers and a former AMD engineer clearly have stated that Automated Design = 20% Bigger, 20% Slower, and even an Athlon x4 scores better in some situations. Bulldozer is step down from Phenom 2 in performance and in power usage. Thuban is the wiser choice. Could they somehow do a bios fix I dunno maybe, but the problem is architecture not bios, IMO.

btw what is this Automated Design ive been hearing about?

 

[Prowl33]

I don't know that I would listen to that engineer specifically either. Maybe he is an old employee with a grudge? Maybe he doesn't work for AMD anymore due to not being a very good engineer and doesn't know what he's talking about? Or maybe he is 100% correct.

I just think its bad practice to completely shun a piece of hardware on release day. Give it a chance to be good. If you combine how much better it ran in the asrock tests which it didn't do too bad in, with how much windows 8 is supposed to help it, its then already a competitive processor minus the huge letdown in power consumption.

 

[BD231]

We all knew bulldozer was crap via anandtechs preview way way back. Amd fpu tech has sucked for a long tome now and the dips banked on making a part that would require some massive gains in that area, which happens to be one of their biggest weakpoints. They failed, but with any luck they make a decent revision worth a purchase.

 

[ErickMaga]

Yeah I think I will pass judgment when several professional hardware reviewers and a former AMD engineer clearly have stated that Automated Design = 20% Bigger, 20% Slower, and even an Athlon x4 scores better in some situations. Bulldozer is step down from Phenom 2 in performance and in power usage. Thuban is the wiser choice. Could they somehow do a bios fix I dunno maybe, but the problem is architecture not bios, IMO.

But as I said if they priced these at $89 bucks I would upgrade to them, because they would be offering a value beneath a hundred dollars.

Power usage? Thats bull...

I've read a review at rag3d(tweak town) if im not mistaken were they put a 5.2ghz 2600k with 3 hd6970 and FX-8150 4.76ghz with 3 hd6970 also, and power usage is 703W for 2600k and 723W for Bulldozer.

Link :http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4...crossfirex_hd_6970_x3_head_to_head/index.html

It's not that different at all, take in consideration it's freaking 8-cores not 4+ HT.

 

[Keysplayr]

OMG if I see another new reg defending Bulldozer I'm going to scream.

 

[Ares1214]

There is no defense of Bulldozer, its a bad arch, that came WAY too late, and costs WAY too much, and no AMD is stuck with the design for the next 3 years.

 

[ErickMaga]

Scream then, people come so hard on BD because of fanboyism, and because its not as good as everyone thought, i'm just stating facts I saw a review where it shows against that OMG POWER USAGE IS HUGE I NEED A NEW PSU, MY HOUSE WILL POWER DOWN.

 

[soccerballtux]

Power usage? Thats bull...

I've read a review at rag3d(tweak town) if im not mistaken were they put a 5.2ghz 2600k with 3 hd6970 and FX-8150 4.76ghz with 3 hd6970 also, and power usage is 703W for 2600k and 723W for Bulldozer.

Link :http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4...crossfirex_hd_6970_x3_head_to_head/index.html

It's not that different at all, take in consideration it's freaking 8-cores not 4+ HT.

check stock speed power usages
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/the-bulldozer-review-amd-fx8150-tested/9

 

[ErickMaga]

Just edited my first post with the picture.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

OMG if I see another new reg defending Bulldozer I'm going to scream.

It is getting a bit ridiculous, isn't it? I just don't understand the point of being a fanboy. Buy the product that suits your needs at the price you want to pay and move on. No need to cheerlead for or defend multi-billion dollar corporations. AMD messed up. Period.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

The only thing that can make sense out of all this is that the CPU department of AMD is trying to do multi-core "right". Maybe they took the demonstration about when a GPU ran an OS, seriously... vaguely remembering this... I'm guessing they see Moore's Law and are heading in that different direction..

 

[Keysplayr]

Scream then, people come so hard on BD because of fanboyism, and because its not as good as everyone thought, i'm just stating facts I saw a review where it shows against that OMG POWER USAGE IS HUGE I NEED A NEW PSU, MY HOUSE WILL POWER DOWN.

How this ^ should have read:

Scream then, people com so hard on BD because of all the pumped up hype and piss poor performance and because it performs even lower than AMD's LAST generation of CPUs. Phenom II.

Do not disregard the links you have just been given by other members here showing proper power consumption charts.

Your turn to scream now.

 

[Keysplayr]

The only thing that can make sense out of all this is that the CPU department of AMD is trying to do multi-core "right". Maybe they took the demonstration about when a GPU ran an OS, seriously... vaguely remembering this... I'm guessing they see Moore's Law and are heading in that different direction..

It could also be that the CPU division is taking design advice from the GPU division. Lets make a CPU that theoretically can run circles around the competition, and at the same time, unbelievably difficult and almost impossibly impractical to code for so that nobody will. (Vec5 anyone).

 

[aphelion02]

All of these different things considered, what is an underperforming processor now could be a great value 6 months to a couple years from now. Anyone remember amd 64? Pretty crappy initial launch, ended up just being ahead of its time.

The problem is that if I wanted a good processor running multithreaded programs, the Thuban is the way to go now for much cheaper. And for $50 more I can get the 2600k which matches it in multi-threaded and spanks it silly in everything else.

You don't buy processors for what "they might be" in the future, you buy them for their known performance. If I wanted something good in 6 months, I will wait for Ivy Bridge to come out which I'm sure will tear yet another new one in Bulldozer. Or maybe by that time the FX 8150 will $99.99 at MC and actually become a decent investment.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Meh, I just had a few pennies I wanted to throw in there, ha :whiste: :hmm:

 

[GaiaHunter]

There are 2 things: a micro architecture and a product.

As a consumer, the product isn't very appealing at this moment and the only way it becomes more attractive is if it becomes cheaper, a "magic fix" of some kind happens or as the process matures the power consumption when oc diminishes combined with higher reachable clocks (obviously doesn't do anything for current batches of products).

The architecture on the other hand might evolve and future products based on it might be a better option, but that doesn't change the status of the current products.

Most people that aren't motivated by anti-amd feelings are passing a judgment on the product as a consumer only. Most of us simply do not have enough knowledge and/or all relevant information to say with a certainty that this architecture is doomed/will flourish due to this or that.

We have seen architectures that debuted as crap to be transformed in better products, sometimes dominating ones.

 

[aphelion02]

It could also be that the CPU division is taking design advice from the GPU division. Lets make a CPU that theoretically can run circles around the competition, and at the same time, unbelievably difficult and almost impossibly impractical to code for so that nobody will. (Vec5 anyone).

While we're getting our little jabs in, it could be that Fermi engineers designed BD and hence the horrible power consumption.

But we both know thats not the case, both Nvidia GPUs and AMD GPUs compete very well in a broad sense, you don't too far wrong in terms of price /perf for either. You can't say the same for BD. This is just brand new level of suckage on the order of the P4.

 

[Keysplayr]

While we're getting our little jabs in, it could be that Fermi engineers designed BD and hence the horrible power consumption.

But we both know thats not the case, both Nvidia GPUs and AMD GPUs compete very well in a broad sense, you don't too far wrong in terms of price /perf for either. You can't say the same for BD. This is just brand new level of suckage on the order of the P4.

Agreed.

 

[remyat]

Damage control sure it's fun.

AMD give me BD with that performance, but cheaper and comsuming less power than a 4 core unlocked SB and I'll buy it. No point being cheaper if I'm going to spend a lot more than the difference in electricity.

Power usage? Thats bull...

I've read a review at rag3d(tweak town) if im not mistaken were they put a 5.2ghz 2600k with 3 hd6970 and FX-8150 4.76ghz with 3 hd6970 also, and power usage is 703W for 2600k and 723W for Bulldozer.

Link :http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4...crossfirex_hd_6970_x3_head_to_head/index.html

It's not that different at all, take in consideration it's freaking 8-cores not 4+ HT.

Nice comparison, did they disable all power saving features on the 2600k to achieve that OC? Because that idle power comsuption is nuts and 5,2ghz is kinda crazy, such high voltage and temps will bring power efficiency to the ground. Check this from post #39 if you care, you may get an answer to the high power draw from the 2600k.

BTW I won't even try to comment the difference in performance between a 5,2ghz 2600k vs a 4,76ghz FX-8150 because it's not funny. I'll say that trying to blur the difference in power consumption using a 3-way crossfire looks kinda cheap. With all that said, BD still consumes more power, you should have stayed GREEN, AMD, I'm sad because this only means the consumer losses.

 

[jones377]

The people who are defending Bulldozer now are probably the same people who bashed Prescott back in the days, assuming they were around back then. It's funny because Bulldozer and Prescott share alot of traits, like massive power consumption/heat and decent performance in encoding/rendering type apps while sucking in games, compared with their competition.

 

[imaheadcase]

I don't know that I would listen to that engineer specifically either. Maybe he is an old employee with a grudge? Maybe he doesn't work for AMD anymore due to not being a very good engineer and doesn't know what he's talking about? Or maybe he is 100% correct.

I just think its bad practice to completely shun a piece of hardware on release day. Give it a chance to be good. If you combine how much better it ran in the asrock tests which it didn't do too bad in, with how much windows 8 is supposed to help it, its then already a competitive processor minus the huge letdown in power consumption.

CPUs are hardware "you don't give a chance to be good". What you see is what you get, raw numbers don't lie.

 

[carnage10]

..problem may be firmware/driver related, correct?

Next, windows 8 handles the processor better than windows 7. Could it be possible for some operating system updates to take better advantage of this processors strengths?

...So as new versions of applications and new games come out, bulldozer can potentially work a lot better.

So wake me up when all the things you mentioned have come into effect/been rectified. I'll enjoy the all round performance of my 2500k til then.
Maybe after Windows 8 comes out, in 18 months time or so, i might think about buying into AMD's chip design if advantages are to be had then, AND only if it out performs IB/Haswell also, which is a BIG if.

Then there's still the question of single thread performance. No software optimization is gunna improve BD's horrible single thread performance drastically enough to make it a worthwhile choice today.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Power usage? Thats bull...

I've read a review at rag3d(tweak town) if im not mistaken were they put a 5.2ghz 2600k with 3 hd6970 and FX-8150 4.76ghz with 3 hd6970 also, and power usage is 703W for 2600k and 723W for Bulldozer.

Link :http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4...crossfirex_hd_6970_x3_head_to_head/index.html

It's not that different at all, take in consideration it's freaking 8-cores not 4+ HT.

Power consumption of a 2600K suicide OC run != That of 2600K @ 24/7 safe overclocks.

Many reviewers can't even push their BD past 4.6GHz. What's with this new wave of AMD defenders lately?