Don't trust her and hate her, at least recognize....

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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Do you really think it's a great idea that candidates for the presidency tailor their messaging - and policy stances - toward persuading swing states voters instead of the country as a whole? Last year was a perfect case in point. Trump adopted a trade protectionist stance because that stance is popular in the rust belt where the states can land either way. Why are the interests of those who live in "swing states" more important than everyone else in the country combined? This point I think undermines the idea you are putting forth above, which is that the government should be responsive to the needs and interests of the various states instead of to the majority of the people. EC promotes the interests of states who arbitrarily happen to be close voting states over all the others. It's undemocratic whether you look at it from the perspective of the people or of the various states.

Candidates would just tailor messages for "swing voters" with out the EC. This is a very partisan country. Can you name one state that has never changed the way it has voted for POTUS, red or blue? EVERY state has voted one way or another. Every state can be changed. We heard about how close TX is to going blue, my state hasn't voted red since Reagan, until Trump came along. This idea that state are set in stone is silly. Again, we are not one borderless nation.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,604
29,321
136
Sure she's intelligent. Very. No one could get where she is without being.

And yes, she'd have made a better president than Trump. But that's not saying much, because almost anyone would. Trump is just horrible and I honestly believe we're witnessing a man who's probably suffering multiple mental illnesses flail his was through the presidency. That's not an excuse for him, I think at heart he's a pompus, rotten sort of person who's slid by his whole life by being rich and powerful. Without money he'd be a minor grade nobody... probably a run of the mill slumlord or something.

There's no question Hillary would have been better at statesmanship and deplomacy. I know I wouldn't agree with her on much, and her 'birthright!' Queen Hillary attitude both in herself and her worst fans I think deservingly did her in, but all around it was a shitty choice.

Of the two rotten choices, she would have been a better president though. No doubt. One has to be blinded by some weird Trump loyalty not to admit that. I see no upside to giving blind loyalty to any of these suit wearing criminals we call "leaders."
One has to wonder why the other conservatives here can't at least be this honest. Hell, even Taj can admit she is intelligent. Shame on the rest of you.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Exactly. I don't see how any sane person can think that Trump was the better choice. It's the same reason why I fully support impeaching Trump despite that meaning that we get President Pence, whose views are in many ways even worse than Trump's from my policy perspective.

I feel the way about Pence the same way I would hope rational conservatives feel about Clinton. He/She would likely implement policies that I strongly dislike, but they are competent and not mentally ill. I am far less worried about the damage from a bad president than I am from an insane president.

I believe Pence would only vote for Supreme Court Justices who would vow to outlaw abortion. If you don't value abortion rights too highly, I can see why Pence doesn't scare the shit out of you. Trump could care less about abortion. I prefer Trump to Pence.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Exactly. I don't see how any sane person can think that Trump was the better choice. It's the same reason why I fully support impeaching Trump despite that meaning that we get President Pence, whose views are in many ways even worse than Trump's from my policy perspective.

I feel the way about Pence the same way I would hope rational conservatives feel about Clinton. He/She would likely implement policies that I strongly dislike, but they are competent and not mentally ill. I am far less worried about the damage from a bad president than I am from an insane president.


Remember when Obama got in office and the crazies on the right kept wanting him impeached? You are the crazy on the left. You didn't get your way. We have a long standing democratic tradition. You'll get another chance in three years. As they say, suck it up buttercup.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Exactly. I don't see how any sane person can think that Trump was the better choice. It's the same reason why I fully support impeaching Trump despite that meaning that we get President Pence, whose views are in many ways even worse than Trump's from my policy perspective.

I feel the way about Pence the same way I would hope rational conservatives feel about Clinton. He/She would likely implement policies that I strongly dislike, but they are competent and not mentally ill. I am far less worried about the damage from a bad president than I am from an insane president.

As much as I dislike Pence at least he understands politics unlike Trump who has no ability to comprehend outside influence
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,836
49,538
136
Remember when Obama got in office and the crazies on the right kept wanting him impeached? You are the crazy on the left. You didn't get your way. We have a long standing democratic tradition. You'll get another chance in three years. As they say, suck it up buttercup.

If you are trying to compare the cases for impeachment between Obama and Trump and call them equal you have really lost it.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,723
2,064
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I believe Pence would only vote for Supreme Court Justices who would vow to outlaw abortion. If you don't value abortion rights too highly, I can see why Pence doesn't scare the shit out of you. Trump could care less about abortion. I prefer Trump to Pence.
There's no such thing as abortion rights.
 

gregoryvg

Senior member
Jul 8, 2008
241
10
76
That's just not what the word means. Quirk means that something is odd, it has nothing to do with whether or not it was deliberate.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/quirk

Yep, looks like I was mis-understanding the word quirk. So with being corrected on the definition of quirk, I agree it is a quirk, in the sense that is is a peculiarity of the electoral college system (that a candidate could win an election without the popular vote).

That still leaves whether we should try to abandon it for a popular vote as some here are in favor. I remain unconvinced that that is the correct course of action, and very doubtful that the states would be in favor. California and New York might be, but the smaller states would probably not ratify it.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,723
2,064
136
...in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and every other religious shithole in the world....
I only mean here in the United States, i don't speak about other countries usually. In case i'm wrong can you point out where abortion Rights are guaranteed?
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
I'd prefer Trump to pence. Trump at least is mostly being isolated from being able to do anything harmful by his white house staff. Yes he pisses people off and yes the country will lose 4 years of progress to china and Europe due to his presidency but at least he's freaking dumb and evil and not smart and evil.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,719
25,062
136
don't you have some grenades to throw at children crossing the border?

That's just homeland defense, also you have to remember that it is only the life of the fetus that is important. Children don't count and should be held accountable for their parents life choices.
 
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