Don't watch 60 Minutes

[Wag]

Not if you want to be pissed off by the draconian methods the Justice Dept employed in holding hundreds of Muslim detanees indefinately without charging them.

They interviewed one young man who was married to a US citizen, held for over 70days in solitary confinement (with the lights on much of the time), given a rectal examination in front of a crowd of federal officers (male and female)- all because he overstayed his vistor's visa.

Just one of the many stories brought to you by John Ashcroft in care of the US Justice dept.

Pretty shocking stuff. I was waiting for stories of what actually happened to these guys after 9/11, and they're just starting to come out now. What's even more gaulling is the fact that Ashcroft can get up in front of Congress and say it's completely justified and legal for him to do such a thing, and they just sit there and do nothing. I say we toss the whole lot of them out. Freedom Fries indeed. Lol.

 

[tec699]

The victims should get a nice expensive lawyer and sue the American government for discrimination!

 

[HappyPuppy]

I don't know the whole story, but a Muslim who overstayed his visa could look suspicious with what's been going on. The fact that he's married to a U.S. citizen means nothing. Not saying it's right or wrong because I don't have enough info.

Don't know if the INS was involved, but they have some pretty broad powers when it comes to detaining people who are here illegally or who have overstayed their visas.

Also, it sounds like only one side of the story was presented and news shows like to spin things in the most sensational manner.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: tec699
The victims should get a nice expensive lawyer and sue the American government for discrimination!

I don't think you can sue the federal government unless they give you permission to do so. Someone else might know more about this.

 

[Wag]

I actually think 60 Minutes is one of the better news shows, and generally tries not to sensationalize things.

Of course it's only one side, they can't get both sides when the Justice Department refuses to comment- not only on this particular case, but on any of them. Then again, Ashcroft refuses to answer questions from Congress too, so it's not so surprising.

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: tec699
The victims should get a nice expensive lawyer and sue the American government for discrimination!

I don't think you can sue the federal government unless they give you permission to do so. Someone else might know more about this.

Yea.. I guess people can't just sue our government. It's like saying the Iraqi people can sue the US government because a bomb killed a family member.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Don't get me wrong, I am totally opposed to much of the "Patriot" Act (I hate that name) and I believe the feds have been ham handed in the way they have been treating many people.

 

[vicvon]

If you don't like the way this country is run then live somewhere else. I am tired of hearing crap about the mistreatment of a few people when the world lost almost 3000 in the towers. Should we just sit on our hands and allow it to happen again or should we do something about it? If the president is not going about it the way you would than at least offer opinions as to how we should go about it. Until then SHUT UP.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: vicvonglahn
If you don't like the way this country is run then live somewhere else. I am tired of hearing crap about the mistreatment of a few people when the world lost almost 3000 in the towers. Should we just sit on our hands and allow it to happen again or should we do something about it? If the president is not going about it the way you would than at least offer opinions as to how we should go about it. Until then SHUT UP.

That's a pretty poor excuse for justifying whatever the people in power are doing.

The people are empowered by the constitution to watch over our government and control it. The citizens rules over the government, not the other way around. If most people feel that a law is not just, then that law is not just.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: vicvonglahn
If you don't like the way this country is run then live somewhere else. I am tired of hearing crap about the mistreatment of a few people when the world lost almost 3000 in the towers. Should we just sit on our hands and allow it to happen again or should we do something about it? If the president is not going about it the way you would than at least offer opinions as to how we should go about it. Until then SHUT UP.

That's a pretty poor excuse for justifying whatever the people in power are doing.

The people are empowered by the constitution to watch over our government and control it. The citizens rules over the government, not the other way around. If most people feel that a law is not just, then that law is not just.

Well vicvonglahn seems to be a pretty poor excuse for an American.

 

[Nostrada]

Originally posted by: vicvonglahn
If you don't like the way this country is run then live somewhere else. I am tired of hearing crap about the mistreatment of a few people when the world lost almost 3000 in the towers. Should we just sit on our hands and allow it to happen again or should we do something about it? If the president is not going about it the way you would than at least offer opinions as to how we should go about it. Until then SHUT UP.

By withdrawing US troops from all around the world. By not influencing other countries with money and weapons. By being modest. By not acting like a religious fanatic. Remember who gave the Taliban the weapons? Remember who was in bed with Saddam for many years? No, I am not talking about some muslims here, I am talking about your W!

Argh, you are making me so angry, I just follow your advice and SHUT UP.

/vent off

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Nostrada
By withdrawing US troops from all around the world. By not influencing other countries with money and weapons. By being modest. By not acting like a religious fanatic. Remember who gave the Taliban the weapons? Remember who was in bed with Saddam for many years? No, I am not talking about some muslims here, I am talking about your W!

Are you referring to George Bush? Offer one bit of proof that George W. Bush helped Saddam in any way. He wasn't in power back then.

 

[vicvonglahn]

By not providing aid ( influencing other countries with money and weapons) the rest of the world would hate us more. If Clinton were still in power he would have done nothing and we would still be an easy (weak) target for anyone who does not agree with the way we do things.

 

[Jimbo]

They interviewed one young man who was married to a US citizen, held for over 70days in solitary confinement (with the lights on much of the time), given a rectal examination in front of a crowd of federal officers (male and female)- all because he overstayed his vistor's visa.

Maybe I'm jaded, I just don't think that is a big deal.

When we hook his genitals up to jumper cables or start torturing his family in order to elicit a confession, give me a call.

 

[Wag]

This has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, or anything.

It has to do with how we treat people with respect and justice- arresting people and holding them for indefinate periods of time is exactly the reason why we revolted from the British and the Bill of Rights exists- if we are to give the Fed Gov't the power the Patriot II act does, we will become no better than the people we are trying to defeat.

 

[mastertech01]

Im sorry but 60 minutes has become very jaded toward the left and would love to embarrass the current administration or discredit it in any way possible to get a news story out of it. I just cant find them credible in thier recent "reporting" methods. IMHO

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Wag
This has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, or anything.

It has to do with how we treat people with respect and justice- arresting people and holding them for indefinate periods of time is exactly the reason why we revolted from the British and the Bill of Rights exists- if we are to give the Fed Gov't the power the Patriot II act does, we will become no better than the people we are trying to defeat.

Well said.

 

[Loralon]

Originally posted by: Wag
This has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, or anything.

It has to do with how we treat people with respect and justice- arresting people and holding them for indefinate periods of time is exactly the reason why we revolted from the British and the Bill of Rights exists- if we are to give the Fed Gov't the power the Patriot II act does, we will become no better than the people we are trying to defeat.

So where would you draw the line between the rights of citizens and those who're here illegally? Should they be treated the same? If so, then why? Should there be some differentiation? If so, what would that be?

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Nostrada

Originally posted by: vicvonglahn
If you don't like the way this country is run then live somewhere else. I am tired of hearing crap about the mistreatment of a few people when the world lost almost 3000 in the towers. Should we just sit on our hands and allow it to happen again or should we do something about it? If the president is not going about it the way you would than at least offer opinions as to how we should go about it. Until then SHUT UP.

By withdrawing US troops from all around the world. By not influencing other countries with money and weapons. By being modest. By not acting like a religious fanatic. Remember who gave the Taliban the weapons? Remember who was in bed with Saddam for many years? No, I am not talking about some muslims here, I am talking about your W!

Argh, you are making me so angry, I just follow your advice and SHUT UP.

/vent off

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

 

[Wag]

So where would you draw the line between the rights of citizens and those who're here illegally? Should they be treated the same? If so, then why? Should there be some differentiation? If so, what would that be?

I don't know- but certainly holding someone for over 70 days in solitary confinement without charging them is over the line- even if they're not a U.S. citizen.

The Patriot Act II is more concerning, because it will allow secret arrests of anyone, without charge, for an unspecified amount of time. That is just way over the line, and AFAIC if it passes, any Representative who's in office when it does deserves to be kicked out.

 

[Red Dawn]

They talk about giving the Iraqi's their freedom while Asscroft does his best to take away ours!

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Wag
This has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, or anything.

It has to do with how we treat people with respect and justice- arresting people and holding them for indefinate periods of time is exactly the reason why we revolted from the British and the Bill of Rights exists- if we are to give the Fed Gov't the power the Patriot II act does, we will become no better than the people we are trying to defeat.

Agreed.

Everybody seeks those things that will ease their ability to do their job. With government/police those things manifest themselves as a loosening of rules and more powers.

This is human nature, but it is everyone's job to keep the government from becoming totalitarian.

Vote People!

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Loralon

Originally posted by: Wag
This has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, or anything.

It has to do with how we treat people with respect and justice- arresting people and holding them for indefinate periods of time is exactly the reason why we revolted from the British and the Bill of Rights exists- if we are to give the Fed Gov't the power the Patriot II act does, we will become no better than the people we are trying to defeat.

So where would you draw the line between the rights of citizens and those who're here illegally? Should they be treated the same? If so, then why? Should there be some differentiation? If so, what would that be?

I think these are both excellent points. I am all for stringing "enemy combatants" up by their testicles and then putting them before firing squads, but there needs to be some kind of oversight so that innocent people do not get lost in the process. I also believe there's a difference between a US citizen and someone who is here illegally; the illegal alien should have far fewer rights, though the specifics of that are open for debate.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Loralon

Originally posted by: Wag
This has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, or anything.

It has to do with how we treat people with respect and justice- arresting people and holding them for indefinate periods of time is exactly the reason why we revolted from the British and the Bill of Rights exists- if we are to give the Fed Gov't the power the Patriot II act does, we will become no better than the people we are trying to defeat.

So where would you draw the line between the rights of citizens and those who're here illegally? Should they be treated the same? If so, then why? Should there be some differentiation? If so, what would that be?

LAW should be Universal... Just like "Inalienable Rights"

We Americans act like our society is the best and a model others should strive for.. then why the hell did we let a religious WHACKO run our legal system????

If you as an American citizen went to another country and they jailed you for 70 days without counsel and then stuck their hand up you asshole and locked you away... WOULD you feel wronged??? OR... would you think that they were doing what was just and proper??

 

[HappyGamer2]

<FONT size=2>
Repeal the patriot act, what about the constitution?
old man bush really did it too, the war on drugs</FONT>