Don't you hate it when a mechanical engineer tells you that computer programming is NOT engineering?

[mugs]

Originally posted by: jinduy

Originally posted by: bharok

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: shortylickens
The software is a tool for him to do real engineering.
Engineers have many tools.
Micrometers for example.

:thumbsup:

I'm a "software engineer" but I don't consider myself an engineer by any means.

:thumbsup:

why's it called software engineer then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Computer science is not engineering in a traditional sense.

Stuff you do as a licensed professional engineer carry a lot of liability (human life, for instance). I don't see a programmer dude's failure will lead to fatalities.

Buggy software in an airplane/car/etc?

 

[LostWanderer]

Sorry to dissappoint you, but a computer programmer or even some would be computer "engineers" haven't earned the title. Not to knock the fields, they're difficult and demanding in their own right, and certainly equal in stature in my view, but the term engineer should be rightfully reserved.

When you take 5-6 years of multidisciplinary engineering courses, sit for an 8-hour comprehensive everything you ever saw internship test, work for the man for 4 years, sit for another 8-hour comprehensive everything you know test that has < 50% passing rate, pass all that and become licensed, live with the daily threat of lawsuits for anything you sign your name to, while commiting yourself to putting the public welfare and safety above your own personal gain, then you've earned the right to call yourself an engineer.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: spidey07

same reason a janitor is called a "sanitation engineer"

Not really

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Computer science is not engineering in a traditional sense.

Stuff you do as a licensed professional engineer carry a lot of liability (human life, for instance). I don't see a programmer dude's failure will lead to fatalities.

Buggy software in an airplane/car/etc?

:thumbsup:

Guided missiles?

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Computer science is not engineering in a traditional sense.

Stuff you do as a licensed professional engineer carry a lot of liability (human life, for instance). I don't see a programmer dude's failure will lead to fatalities.

Buggy software in an airplane/car/etc?

You have a ton of time to debug, testing and such.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: beer

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: shortylickens
The software is a tool for him to do real engineering.
Engineers have many tools.
Micrometers for example.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a "web developer" approached me and said I can make you a web page (using FrontPage/Dreamweaver/etc.) but couldn't write an functional HTML page by hand, I'd laugh in his face too.

wow, just, wow...

so an engineer is supposed to, uh, do what then? I mean, let's say a mechanical engineer is trying to make an engine. It's a common task. That engine requires a staff of two dozen once everything is said and done.

How would they do that without cad tools, again?

How did they do it before they had computers?

OWNED

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: LostWanderer
Sorry to dissappoint you, but a computer programmer or even some would be computer "engineers" haven't earned the title. Not to knock the fields, they're difficult and demanding in their own right, and certainly equal in stature in my view, but the term engineer should be rightfully reserved.

When you take 5-6 years of multidisciplinary engineering courses, sit for an 8-hour comprehensive everything you ever saw internship test, work for the man for 4 years, sit for another 8-hour comprehensive everything you know test that has < 50% passing rate, pass all that and become licensed, live with the daily threat of lawsuits for anything you sign your name to, while commiting yourself to putting the public welfare and safety above your own personal gain, then you've earned the right to call yourself an engineer.

<-- Licensed and practicing civil engineer.

by that standard, ChemE's, BioE's and EE's wouldn't even be engineers

 

[Ready]

programming is not engineering.
Writing scripts to for the sake of an engineering task is engineering.
I'm not a good programmer, but I write a few scripts to get the job done.

 

[herm0016]

im a mechanical engineer. . . dont hate me! wow. you guys are gettin real up tight about this. engineering is usually described as doing something physical. like finding a problem with a car and making a part to fix it. that is engineering in genral. anyone can "engineer". most computer and software engineering criculims that i have encounterd dont teach real engineering practices like statics and thermodynamics and meterial science, they teach you how to use a computer and how to build one. i belive that engineers need the background in the physical world that most computer degrees dont give you.

those are my thoughts. now you can rip them apart. . .

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Computer science is not engineering in a traditional sense.

Stuff you do as a licensed professional engineer carry a lot of liability (human life, for instance). I don't see a programmer dude's failure will lead to fatalities.

Buggy software in an airplane/car/etc?

:thumbsup:

Guided missiles?

Again, you can test them in a controlled environment.

You can't do that with a building. You'll know whether an Engineer failed or not in a major event. Same goes for MEs, look at what happened to Challenger & Columbia.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: LostWanderer
Sorry to dissappoint you, but a computer programmer or even some would be computer "engineers" haven't earned the title. Not to knock the fields, they're difficult and demanding in their own right, and certainly equal in stature in my view, but the term engineer should be rightfully reserved.

When you take 5-6 years of multidisciplinary engineering courses, sit for an 8-hour comprehensive everything you ever saw internship test, work for the man for 4 years, sit for another 8-hour comprehensive everything you know test that has < 50% passing rate, pass all that and become licensed, live with the daily threat of lawsuits for anything you sign your name to, while commiting yourself to putting the public welfare and safety above your own personal gain, then you've earned the right to call yourself an engineer.

<-- Licensed and practicing civil engineer.

by that standard, ChemE's, BioE's and EE's wouldn't even be engineers

I can see ChemEs having a lot of liability issues as well. I don't really know what BioEs do and EEs... they're a different species.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: herm0016
im a mechanical engineer. . . dont hate me! wow. you guys are gettin real up tight about this. engineering is usually described as doing something physical. like finding a problem with a car and making a part to fix it. that is engineering in genral. anyone can "engineer". most computer and software engineering criculims that i have encounterd dont teach real engineering practices like statics and thermodynamics and meterial science, they teach you how to use a computer and how to build one. i belive that engineers need the background in the physical world that most computer degrees dont give you.

those are my thoughts. now you can rip them apart. . .

There is no point for CMPEs to take statics or thermodynamics really....

 

[JinLien]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: shortylickens
The software is a tool for him to do real engineering.
Engineers have many tools.
Micrometers for example.

:thumbsup:

I'm a "software engineer" but I don't consider myself an engineer by any means.

Title create elitism.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: LostWanderer
Sorry to dissappoint you, but a computer programmer or even some would be computer "engineers" haven't earned the title. Not to knock the fields, they're difficult and demanding in their own right, and certainly equal in stature in my view, but the term engineer should be rightfully reserved.

When you take 5-6 years of multidisciplinary engineering courses, sit for an 8-hour comprehensive everything you ever saw internship test, work for the man for 4 years, sit for another 8-hour comprehensive everything you know test that has < 50% passing rate, pass all that and become licensed, live with the daily threat of lawsuits for anything you sign your name to, while commiting yourself to putting the public welfare and safety above your own personal gain, then you've earned the right to call yourself an engineer.

<-- Licensed and practicing civil engineer.

by that standard, ChemE's, BioE's and EE's wouldn't even be engineers

I can see ChemEs having a lot of liability issues as well. I don't really know what BioEs do and EEs... they're a different species.

it's not hard to foresee software engineers encountering liability issues

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: LostWanderer
Sorry to dissappoint you, but a computer programmer or even some would be computer "engineers" haven't earned the title. Not to knock the fields, they're difficult and demanding in their own right, and certainly equal in stature in my view, but the term engineer should be rightfully reserved.

When you take 5-6 years of multidisciplinary engineering courses, sit for an 8-hour comprehensive everything you ever saw internship test, work for the man for 4 years, sit for another 8-hour comprehensive everything you know test that has < 50% passing rate, pass all that and become licensed, live with the daily threat of lawsuits for anything you sign your name to, while commiting yourself to putting the public welfare and safety above your own personal gain, then you've earned the right to call yourself an engineer.

<-- Licensed and practicing civil engineer.

by that standard, ChemE's, BioE's and EE's wouldn't even be engineers

I can see ChemEs having a lot of liability issues as well. I don't really know what BioEs do and EEs... they're a different species.

it's not hard to foresee software engineers encountering liability issues

If a ChemE fvcks up on something in a big chemical plant, crap blows up and things get polluted and stuff. I don't know enough about other fields besides civil/structural to comment on them so I'm basing my judgement on what I think they do.

Programmers can debug and stuff... You can't do that with a building, chemical plant, or car, period.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Computer science is not engineering in a traditional sense.

Stuff you do as a licensed professional engineer carry a lot of liability (human life, for instance). I don't see a programmer dude's failure will lead to fatalities.

Buggy software in an airplane/car/etc?

:thumbsup:

Guided missiles?

Again, you can test them in a controlled environment.

You can't do that with a building. You'll know whether an Engineer failed or not in a major event. Same goes for MEs, look at what happened to Challenger & Columbia.

Says the guy who apparantly isn't a software developer.

We've gone from "I don't see a programmer dude's failure will lead to fatalities" to "you can test them in a controlled environment." A "programmer dude's" mistakes CAN cause fatalities. You can't cover every real-world situation in testing. You think they didn't do extensive testing on the parts in the space shuttles?

 

[Mears]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Computer science is not engineering in a traditional sense.

Stuff you do as a licensed professional engineer carry a lot of liability (human life, for instance). I don't see a programmer dude's failure will lead to fatalities.

Buggy software in an airplane/car/etc?

You have a ton of time to debug, testing and such.

You are obviously talking out of your ass.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

If a ChemE fvcks up on something in a big chemical plant, crap blows up and things get polluted and stuff. I don't know enough about other fields besides civil/structural to comment on them so I'm basing my judgement on what I think they do.

Programmers can debug and stuff... You can't do that with a building, chemical plant, or car, period.

Engineers can test their stuff - they test using MODELs. Often computer models. Who do you think programs those computer models? ... ... ... ? Better hope those code monkeys aren't just slapping stuff together. :roll:

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Computer science is not engineering in a traditional sense.

Stuff you do as a licensed professional engineer carry a lot of liability (human life, for instance). I don't see a programmer dude's failure will lead to fatalities.

Buggy software in an airplane/car/etc?

:thumbsup:

Guided missiles?

Again, you can test them in a controlled environment.

You can't do that with a building. You'll know whether an Engineer failed or not in a major event. Same goes for MEs, look at what happened to Challenger & Columbia.

Says the guy who apparantly isn't a software developer.

We've gone from "I don't see a programmer dude's failure will lead to fatalities" to "you can test them in a controlled environment." A "programmer dude's" mistakes CAN cause fatalities. You can't cover every real-world situation in testing. You think they didn't do extensive testing on the parts in the space shuttles?

My apologies, I don't know anything about software development.

I still believe that coding is something much more controllable than physical stuff.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Mears

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

You are obviously talking out of your ass.

You've found the words I've been searching for.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

I still believe that coding is something much more controllable than physical stuff.

Tell that to Microsoft.

 

[CanOWorms]

Some computer programming is engineering, but obviously not all. Some engineers basically do nothing but programming with the knowledge of engineering too.

 

[LostWanderer]

This is a pretty good topic, maybe my view sounds a little skewed, but here is a good website for anyone looking to do some background reading.

National Society of Professional Engineers


Just to point out, they do recognize computers as one of the engineering fields, provided the program is accredited, which means cross-disciplinary courses and the like. Hope someone finds it informative.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

If a ChemE fvcks up on something in a big chemical plant, crap blows up and things get polluted and stuff. I don't know enough about other fields besides civil/structural to comment on them so I'm basing my judgement on what I think they do.

Programmers can debug and stuff... You can't do that with a building, chemical plant, or car, period.

Engineers can test their stuff - they test using MODELs. Often computer models. Who do you think programs those computer models? ... ... ... ? Better hope those code monkeys aren't just slapping stuff together. :roll:

You cannot build a program without knowing the engineering behind it. I can see programmers making an engineering application more user friendly, but all the math behind it is done by engineers.