Doom (2016) Discussion

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moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
It looks good to me. Visually looks great, the game seems very simple like it should be. Go out and kill all the evil ones. Save mankind. Many guns. That video was cool and looked good. I wouldn't mind stuffing a grenade in some fat beast's mouth and watching him (or her) splatter. Are demons male or female?
 

Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
1,023
588
136
Looks like a full 3D jump from Doom/Doom ][ ... you can actually JUMP in this one!

Don't need Doom Fighter Turbo, so pace I'm not going to care about.

I got giddy when I saw the plasma cannon used.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
No thanks. $60 for one of the slowest and

Sold me on slowest. I'm so sick of all these games coming out with faster and faster movement. Slow and realistic leading to thoughtful strategic play is better than hyper-fast mess where 13 year-old kids dominate because the can click .01 sec faster.

But, I still won't pre-order. Maybe pick it up after release, maybe even at full price, but I won't pre-order.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
I have to admit not being too concerned about the supposed slowness. I am interested in this one for atmosphere and great looks, immersion etc and hopefully some interesting and fun gameplay. I have a feeling the multiplayer will be really fast and arena style since that's what the website indicates it will be. Multiplayer might actually not suck, but that's a long shot IMO.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
216
106
Sold me on slowest. I'm so sick of all these games coming out with faster and faster movement. Slow and realistic leading to thoughtful strategic play is better than hyper-fast mess where 13 year-old kids dominate because the can click .01 sec faster.
Fast paced is pretty much the whole point of the franchise though. Complaining that Doom / Quake / ROTT / Serious Sam are "too fast" is like complaining there are too many portals in Portal or too much stealing in Thief...

My experience is the inverse of your complaints of "old school = no tactics". In the older games you had stimpacks / medkits (ie bandage wounds with limited supplies) which translated to finite health per level. If you were running low on health / ammo you had to learn how to play enemies off each other and where best to bottleneck them against each other, to even out the numbers. The newer supposedly "realistic" games with auto health regen (ie, infinite health per level) combined with every trivial action pre-scripted in often highly linear "railroady" maps, are often far less "realistic" and "thoughtful" than people assume when you have virtually infinite health (and sometimes infinite ammo for low-end weapons like pistols). No need to plan out attacks, just run away and watch those critical wounds "realistically" heal themselves to perfection simply from hiding under a stairway for 30s... :hmm:
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
197
106
Fast paced is pretty much the whole point of the franchise though. Complaining that Doom / Quake / ROTT / Serious Sam are "too fast" is like complaining there are too many portals in Portal or too much stealing in Thief...

My experience is the inverse of your complaints of "old school = no tactics". In the older games you had stimpacks / medkits (ie bandage wounds with limited supplies) which translated to finite health per level. If you were running low on health / ammo you had to learn how to play enemies off each other and where best to bottleneck them against each other, to even out the numbers. The newer supposedly "realistic" games with auto health regen (ie, infinite health per level) combined with every trivial action pre-scripted in often highly linear "railroady" maps, are often far less "realistic" and "thoughtful" than people assume when you have virtually infinite health (and sometimes infinite ammo for low-end weapons like pistols). No need to plan out attacks, just run away and watch those critical wounds "realistically" heal themselves to perfection simply from hiding under a stairway for 30s... :hmm:

I also don't like health regeneration, but "fast pacing" only applies if the player goes fast. Heck, having to hide under a stairway for 30s (from your own example) would slow down the pacing dramatically. I never understood the notion that some gamers have that apparently DOOM has supposedly always been "fast". What was fast? Moving in a straight line without shooting anything? That, because your health in DOOM doesn't regen, it makes the pacing "fast(er)"? The way I myself played DOOM back then was methodical, sure it was "guns blazing"' but it wasn't fast. I could stay in one room for five minutes shooting demons from my position, taking them down one by one from a distance in the opposite room (such as Imps or Cacodemons).

I'm playing Brutal DOOM regularly enough (say, maybe a few short sessions each week) and still to this day if I want to spend five minutes in just two rooms because I want to toy around with demons, I will. The game doesn't have to be fast. And it's NOT designed in such a way that it sort of "forces" me to be fast either. The "point" of DOOM has never been for you to be fast. The point of DOOM is to have fun. I can be fast if you want it to be, if you play it that way sure, but it's not like "Fast Paced Action 3000 Omega Carnage!!!" was stamped on the retail box to try and sell the game originally. The premise of the DOOM franchise isn't to get out of there ASAP because the base you're in is gonna blow up in 24 real time hours. You can play at your own pace.

I still remember playing DOOM on a 486 and it was not "fast-paced", the screen size had to be reduced to about 50% to have decent frame rate and I was lucky to get out of a level within ten minutes.

Want to have a REAL reminder of how "fast-paced" DOOM used to be?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Zie9mjhY8

Something a little more modern then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mEP4cflrd4

So, is that "fast"?. Because I sure as heck think it's not. It's not slower nor faster than a typical modern FPS. That's because it'll go at YOUR pacing speed. I don't want to come across as irritating here. But at least consider that as far as the new DOOM is concerned: 1) The E3 'demo''s speed was as "slow" or as "fast" as the guy who played it (it was HIS speed), 2) We don't know what game difficulty it was, 3) That was E3, game was (still is) in development, a lot of things are subject to change, 4) If the game for some reasons REALLY DOES end up being "slow-paced" (for YOUR taste) then take in consideration that 5) There's going to be a level editor for you to toy around with in order to finally make your own custom "fast-paced" maps.

There IS, however, one small "complaint" I have right now about the new DOOM just by looking at the footage that's been released so far (not just from E3). It's the fact that, at least apparently so, there's definitely less enemies on-screen than I was expecting. However, still considering that difficulty levels might (should) change that (highest difficulty might keep the infinite enemy spawn intact and if that's the case being overwhelmed by enemies is going to happen) and if not, custom maps will allow us to make that happen regardless (of the campaign).
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Everyone hates pre-orders but I'll tell you what. Amazon doesn't take any money up front and Prime members get 20% off all new games for the first 2 weeks of release. I use Amazon as placeholders a lot of the time. They've sent me reminders about release date changes etc. So I can basically cancel the week before, wait for reviews and if it's good get 20% off right there or even find a different deal for steam keys.
 
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BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
216
106
What was fast? Moving in a straight line without shooting anything?
There were plenty of rooms you entered with 20-40 ranged attack monsters where you obviously aren't going to stand there sniping at leisure...

The "point" of DOOM has never been for you to be fast. The point of DOOM is to have fun. I can be fast if you want it to be, if you play it that way sure.
I think there's a difference though in a game that can be slow out of choice, and one that has to be slowed down by design to "fit" controllers. All I've seen from Doom 4 so far is the latter and its painfully obvious slooooow turns looks more like Alien Isolation 2 than Doom.

Want to have a REAL reminder of how "fast-paced" DOOM used to be?
You mean like this?... I don't see the point of posting "slowest guy ever plays on a 486SX with 4MB RAM in DOSBox" vids when modern OpenGL source ports of Doom (GZDoom / Doomsday) that actually have mouse-look are anything but. It's hardly as if any new 2016 FPS is going to come without mouse-look for any serious like for like comparison (and almost no-one playing Doom 1-2 today plays on a 23 year old PC with 14" CRT monitor)...

There IS, however, one small "complaint" I have right now about the new DOOM just by looking at the footage that's been released so far (not just from E3). It's the fact that, at least apparently so, there's definitely less enemies on-screen than I was expecting.
I agree, but why do you think that is? Because "fewer but more bullet-spongy enemies" slow down the gameplay enough to make controllers work. Hence my above comment - the game has obviously had its pace & style of play changed significantly not for a "you can play as you want personally" issue, but rather "the only way we could get a controller to work in a twitch shooter is to remove 80% of the enemies for everyone to reduce the number of successive rapid turns required". Same goes for "why do you think the game now has to pause to access a weapon selection wheel"? It's kinda obvious when you put all this together what the compromise is and why it's there. Imagine if Quake 5 came out and all the demo's showed it took you a whole second to do a U-turn. Would it still be seen as anything remotely "Quakey"?

Edit: Personally I hope I am wrong and that the video's are just a guy playing really slowly on a controller purely for demonstration. But given the sheer number of bad overly-consolized ports (and bad reboots which "streamline gameplay for the casual audience" (ahem) a little too much), I'll remain highly cynical until I see it post-launch.
 
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Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
Pre-ordered two collector's editions (one from Amazon, one from Best Buy) to keep nice and in the box. Have a copy pre-ordered on Steam, and will probably buy a couple of the standard edition versions to keep in the box, too.

I love DOOM.
 

Sulaco

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2003
3,860
44
91
Pre-ordered two collector's editions (one from Amazon, one from Best Buy) to keep nice and in the box. Have a copy pre-ordered on Steam, and will probably buy a couple of the standard edition versions to keep in the box, too.

I love DOOM.

Did you do the same for DOOM 3?
 

JasonCoder

Golden Member
Feb 23, 2005
1,893
1
81
Pre-ordered two collector's editions (one from Amazon, one from Best Buy) to keep nice and in the box. Have a copy pre-ordered on Steam, and will probably buy a couple of the standard edition versions to keep in the box, too.

I love DOOM.

Username checks out
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
Did you do the same for DOOM 3?

Not DOOM 3 but I ultimately ended up with several digital copies (bought the "id Super Pack" on Steam as well as the DOOM 3 BFG Edition for those extra levels) as well as the boxed version I bought on launch day, but I do have a whole mess of BNIB old school DOOMs in my collection...The Ultimate DOOM, DOOM II, Final DOOM, Master Levels for DOOM, and so on.

I could never get my hands on a sealed copy of the original mail order DOOM, though. I have an opened box version, but BNIB is too elusive...and believe me, I tried very hard, even going so far as to personally asking John Romero to sell me one of his...but the man simply knows the true value of these things and wouldn't let me have one for any price

If I ever find one that somebody is willing to sell me, odds are good it will be mine.

Did I mention that I love DOOM?
 
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moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
Pre-ordered two collector's editions (one from Amazon, one from Best Buy) to keep nice and in the box. Have a copy pre-ordered on Steam, and will probably buy a couple of the standard edition versions to keep in the box, too.

I love DOOM.

Screw you then. I'm buying 8 copies.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,077
136
No thanks. $60 for one of the slowest and least moddable single-player games I've ever seen which is supposed to be part of a fast-paced highly moddable franchise really doesn't sound appealing. But the real gem is the $120 Collectors Edition on offer consisting of the $60 version + a tacky $5 PVC toy + a $1 cardboard box... The rest is just the usual "don't make an informed decision by waiting for reviews. Instead get into the habit of supporting poor industry practises by making uninformed decisions in exchange for a couple of tacky bribes pre-order bonuses..." :sneaky:

Let's be honest, if it didn't have the "Doom" or "Id" labels stuck on to make it seem "iconic" for riding off the back of a 23 year old Golden Age franchise with completely different gameplay, and if it were made by an Indie studio but looked & played the same with its "slow generic designed-for-controller FPS with UAC & hell textures + Brutal-Doom inspired finishing moves as its sole gimmick" identity, it sure as hell (excuse the pun) wouldn't be selling for a comical $60-$120...

Well said. /thread
 

gradoman

Senior member
Mar 19, 2007
883
548
136
I wouldn't preorder, but to say it looks indie, hahah, no. I've played Hard Reset and I enjoyed the Shadow Warrior reboot and this looks to be more enjoyable than both. Sure as heck won't pay full price, but I will pick it up at some point after I'm through with DS2 and the DLC I got for cheap for Witcher 3 and DA:I.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
Pre-ordered two collector's editions (one from Amazon, one from Best Buy) to keep nice and in the box. Have a copy pre-ordered on Steam, and will probably buy a couple of the standard edition versions to keep in the box, too.

I love DOOM.

Tru-Fan (tm)
 

motsm

Golden Member
Jan 20, 2010
1,822
2
76
I wouldn't preorder, but to say it looks indie, hahah, no. I've played Hard Reset and I enjoyed the Shadow Warrior reboot and this looks to be more enjoyable than both. Sure as heck won't pay full price, but I will pick it up at some point after I'm through with DS2 and the DLC I got for cheap for Witcher 3 and DA:I.
Looks better than Shadow Warrior maybe, as it basically had health regeneration which almost completely ruined it.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
91
It is getting harder and harder to pay $60 for games these days. Wonder if it will have oculus support? I bet a face paced game like this wouldn't be very agreeable on the stomach!

From the previews, it looked like the pace was pretty slow.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,923
126
I truly believe that pre-ordering will die out. If we can all just band together we can eliminate this scourge on gaming. We can create a brighter future for our children and our children's children. A bright world where the shining pure spirits of humanity force back the thick dark choking cloud of evil permeating through every crevice of the gaming industry. We can unite as one to smite the evils of of our cherished pastime. We can prevail! We will prevail! We can evoke change so profound that the good that comes from it spreads throughout the world to eventually unite all of humanity in world peace! Who is with me?
 
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