Dota 2

[Dijeangenie]

They should divide up Normal into Normal and Low. Because today I played with an idiot against 4 idiots and a decent Brew carry, and it took us an hour to win.

Yeah it happens, I got unlucky enough to be put in as the 5th man in a 4 man russian premade yesterday - who obviously decided not to play seriously as they picked 4 carries and fed (eg riki went 0-12), I looked at their dotabuff history afterwards and then had been playing properly and stomping previous to that game! My point is that people can be idiots at any level I'm not sure deviding up the skill brackets will help very much (also I think they are still divided up just over the hood so to speak, as someone playing for the first time will still be matched with people of a similar experience level)

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Yeah it happens, I got unlucky enough to be put in as the 5th man in a 4 man russian premade yesterday - who obviously decided not to play seriously as they picked 4 carries and fed (eg riki went 0-12), I looked at their dotabuff history afterwards and then had been playing properly and stomping previous to that game! My point is that people can be idiots at any level I'm not sure deviding up the skill brackets will help very much (also I think they are still divided up just over the hood so to speak, as someone playing for the first time will still be matched with people of a similar experience level)

Does anyone else think there are major problems with Dota 2 matchmaking? I just played a game with 4 Brazilians in Captains mode where none of them spoke English, they picked stupid heroes without talking or anything, and they each had about 20 last hits in the 25 minutes it took us to lose.

 

[OoteR02]

Does anyone else think there are major problems with Dota 2 matchmaking? I just played a game with 4 Brazilians in Captains mode where none of them spoke English, they picked stupid heroes without talking or anything, and they each had about 20 last hits in the 25 minutes it took us to lose.

Well, I guess it'd be hard to have the game actually try to tell if they are speaking English or Portuguese... So, they click what they want.

The fact they were awful can happen regardless though.

 

[Dijeangenie]

Well, I guess it'd be hard to have the game actually try to tell if they are speaking English or Portuguese... So, they click what they want.

The fact they were awful can happen regardless though.

Especially in Captains mode because the pool for pub games is so small - around 1% of mm games are CM - this means there is a huge disparity in skill level because there may only be a handful of games on at a time. I would only queue for CM if you have a group of people (pref 5) tbh.

 

[Robert Munch]

Does anyone else think there are major problems with Dota 2 matchmaking? I just played a game with 4 Brazilians in Captains mode where none of them spoke English, they picked stupid heroes without talking or anything, and they each had about 20 last hits in the 25 minutes it took us to lose.

Yes, i've noted in the past the matchmaking isn't all that if you solo queue not even worth the frustration once you pass the 500~ games mark. You would be better off in smaller teams of 3 and queue up.

I've noticed about 4-5 months ago if you played with a new account you actually play against much more higher skilled players than you would in mid-range/high level games.

I'm only guessing that the high skilled new account players are either trolling noobs in a premade team or by other means.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Yes, i've noted in the past the matchmaking isn't all that if you solo queue not even worth the frustration once you pass the 500~ games mark. You would be better off in smaller teams of 3 and queue up.

I've noticed about 4-5 months ago if you played with a new account you actually play against much more higher skilled players than you would in mid-range/high level games.

I'm only guessing that the high skilled new account players are either trolling noobs in a premade team or by other means.

I've found there's a specific time of day, in the morning for my time zone, where you just can't play dota because everyone who plays either can't speak english, can't play dota, or won't play properly.

We really need an AT team. I'm sick of playing with people whose mistakes are just so glaring to me, I need someone on the team who's clearly better than me to learn from.

 

[Dijeangenie]

Yes, i've noted in the past the matchmaking isn't all that if you solo queue not even worth the frustration once you pass the 500~ games mark. You would be better off in smaller teams of 3 and queue up.

Yeah, I would love to get a few people together and do that but I don't really know many people who play Dota 2/ are a similar exp level ( I've played 150 games) because better players are obviously reluctant to play (which I understand). The point is that I don't think it's fair to say that the matchmaking shouldn't be improved because not everyone can avoid solo queuing. (Not that you were saying that)

(I'm just venting because I got shouted at by an awful lone Druid today who yelled at me for not warding enough (even though I always had at least 2 wards up, as only support (ofc) which isn't that bad) while he fed kills. I'm fed up with playing with 3/4 instapick carries - his game history was nearly all carries! I'm bit saying that because I want to pick carries instead but it would be nice to play other heroes than the 5 or 10 supports I normally end up playing *rant over* - sorry)

 

[Robert Munch]

I've found there's a specific time of day, in the morning for my time zone, where you just can't play dota because everyone who plays either can't speak english, can't play dota, or won't play properly.

We really need an AT team. I'm sick of playing with people whose mistakes are just so glaring to me, I need someone on the team who's clearly better than me to learn from.

I'm all for playing with AT people better than random dota players.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Yeah, I would love to get a few people together and do that but I don't really know many people who play Dota 2/ are a similar exp level ( I've played 150 games) because better players are obviously reluctant to play (which I understand). The point is that I don't think it's fair to say that the matchmaking shouldn't be improved because not everyone can avoid solo queuing. (Not that you were saying that)

(I'm just venting because I got shouted at by an awful lone Druid today who yelled at me for not warding enough (even though I always had at least 2 wards up, as only support (ofc) which isn't that bad) while he fed kills. I'm fed up with playing with 3/4 instapick carries - his game history was nearly all carries! I'm bit saying that because I want to pick carries instead but it would be nice to play other heroes than the 5 or 10 supports I normally end up playing *rant over* - sorry)

I (and many other people I'm guessing) wouldn't mind babysitting people with less experience than me, because I know you - if you get advice, you'll get better. Whereas trying to teach people from random matchmaking is a nightmare - when you tell them to buy courier or wards, or anything support-like, they get all like "I don't like you attitude so I'll do the exact opposite of whatever you tell me" (shoutout to a certain guy who played Treant). Very toddler-like.

 

[Destiny]

I am up for it...

The key thing is when playing with AT forum members, please don't rage or be degrading - play with respect and make suggestions for improvement... I played in enough pub games where my deaths were a result of doing what they want me to do, and they blame me for losing the game. Or my deaths were a result of their ganking mistakes... then they start being very condencending and negative.

We are all here to learn and have fun. We all make mistakes or mis-click sometimes... the cool thing about DOTA 2 is you are always learning and there is always new things to learn. Or a person playing a hero carry thinking he's bad ass when actually the support hero made sure they got strong and fed - and yet degrades his team mates still...

BTW... does anyone have an extra DOTA 2 steam key? I'll create and manage a DOTA 2 AT team if no one else wants to do it...^_^

 

[MikeyLSU]

I'm definitly in, we just need to pick a time for everyone to be online

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I am up for it...

The key thing is when playing with AT forum members, please don't rage or be degrading - play with respect and make suggestions for improvement... I played in enough pub games where my deaths were a result of doing what they want me to do, and they blame me for losing the game. Or my deaths were a result of their ganking mistakes... then they start being very condencending and negative.

We are all here to learn and have fun. We all make mistakes or mis-click sometimes... the cool thing about DOTA 2 is you are always learning and there is always new things to learn. Or a person playing a hero carry thinking he's bad ass when actually the support hero made sure they got strong and fed - and yet degrades his team mates still...

BTW... does anyone have an extra DOTA 2 steam key? I'll create and manage a DOTA 2 AT team if no one else wants to do it...^_^

Yeah. How do I give it to you?

 

[Dijeangenie]

Yeah. How do I give it to you?

Add him on steam and trade him

Regarding the team, I think the best thing to do would be to make an anandtech dota steam group, which anyone here can join and then whoever is online can queue together etc. A potential team could obviously be then created from there!

 

[Destiny]

Yeah. How do I give it to you?

You can add me on Steam: ROADKILL_626

Or PM me the key here.

Add him on steam and trade him

Regarding the team, I think the best thing to do would be to make an anandtech dota steam group, which anyone here can join and then whoever is online can queue together etc. A potential team could obviously be then created from there!

That sounds cool!

 

[Dijeangenie]

You can add me on Steam: ROADKILL_626

Or PM me the key here.



That sounds cool!

Glad you think so, you are welcome to go ahead and create the group if you want, I don't know how to and someone with more posts/more time here than me should probably do it

 

[Destiny]

I got a DOTA 2 gift from one of my friends. Going to try to figure out how to create an Anandtech DOTA 2 steam group tonite or the next few days. Will create the team tonite...

Should we keep everything on this thread and keep an updated list of players or create an "Official DOTA 2 (Anandtech)" thread?

Anyone here is free to add me to their steam friends list (just let me know you are from AnandTech).

ROADKILL_626

 

[Kanobei]

I'm playing LOL. I'm thinking about starting DOTA now. I heard that it's harder than LOL.

 

[Chiropteran]

I'm playing LOL. I'm thinking about starting DOTA now. I heard that it's harder than LOL.

It's both harder and easier, at the same time.

LoL strategy is generally more basic. They nerfed stealth so hard it's terrible, they nerfed backdooring hard, and item builds are easy. It seems like most LoL games have the standard solo top bruiser, solo mid, support+ad bot, jungler and then after 10 minutes you run around as a 5 man group.

DOTA2 has more options. Stealth is stronger and fairly viable, at least in my elo, though there are also more ways to counter it. Some champions excel at pushing side lanes, some champions hard-counter others. Knowledge is more important than reaction speed. The lanes are not as defined- I have seen very successful 3 champion lanes, support+ad bot is not a given. Late game doesn't always boil down to 5 man groups running around, though it often does still.

 

[Zeze]

It's both harder and easier, at the same time.
LoL strategy is generally more basic. They nerfed stealth so hard it's terrible, they nerfed backdooring hard, and item builds are easy. It seems like most LoL games have the standard solo top bruiser, solo mid, support+ad bot, jungler and then after 10 minutes you run around as a 5 man group.

DOTA2 has more options. Stealth is stronger and fairly viable, at least in my elo, though there are also more ways to counter it. Some champions excel at pushing side lanes, some champions hard-counter others. Knowledge is more important than reaction speed. The lanes are not as defined- I have seen very successful 3 champion lanes, support+ad bot is not a given. Late game doesn't always boil down to 5 man groups running around, though it often does still.

This. Also,

Never played LoL, but I've often read from veteran LoL players who converted into Dota say the following:

* Heroes are far more unique in Dota. LoL basically has lots of similar heroes. In Dota, even similar heroes are vastly different in their own right (WR vs Mirana). As a matter of fact, I don't even think there are similar heroes in Dota.

* Dota is not pay-2-win & never will be. Right from your first game, you are on 100% even playing fields as the veterans. No skill trees, all heroes unlocked.

* I heard time and time again that spells in LoL are cheap and lots of harassment is involved. In Dota, spells cost lots of mana and are very devastating- resulting in lots of ganks and certain kills. Also it's easier to turn things around in Dota.

* Dota is more 'balanced' and polished in the sense that the trend/meta relevant picks are composed of 50~ heroes out of 98~, and lots of surprise picks that work from the remaining 50~. LoL has far less (30-40)- the game is not as diverse and unpredictable.

* Dota's mature graphics >>>> LoL cartoony stuff.

 

[Dijeangenie]

Also it's easier to turn things around in Dota.

Remind me never to play LOL then!! One of my biggest complaints with dota is actually that its pretty hard to turn the game around (maybe this is just because I play in fairly low skilled pubs :0 ) and often the game can be effectively over by 20/25 minutes but takes another 20 to actually finish.

 

[smackababy]

Remind me never to play LOL then!! One of my biggest complaints with dota is actually that its pretty hard to turn the game around (maybe this is just because I play in fairly low skilled pubs :0 ) and often the game can be effectively over by 20/25 minutes but takes another 20 to actually finish.

That is a huge misconception though. Since you can't see exactly how far behind in gold and experience you don't see just how far a fight can swing it in either team's favor. A single over extension from the dominant side can sway that chart a lot. Enough that it puts the other team in a position to come back. A team 'throwing' can greatly impact the momentum. That was one of the reasons they did not add a concede option in Dota 2. In HoN, which as an option to Vote to Concede at 15 minutes, if your team is behind in hero kills at this point, people give up. And as soon as that first vote doesn't pass, whoever initialized it (usually the guy feeding) just gives up so you have no real way to win.

 

[CrackRabbit]

That is a huge misconception though. Since you can't see exactly how far behind in gold and experience you don't see just how far a fight can swing it in either team's favor. A single over extension from the dominant side can sway that chart a lot. Enough that it puts the other team in a position to come back. A team 'throwing' can greatly impact the momentum. That was one of the reasons they did not add a concede option in Dota 2. In HoN, which as an option to Vote to Concede at 15 minutes, if your team is behind in hero kills at this point, people give up. And as soon as that first vote doesn't pass, whoever initialized it (usually the guy feeding) just gives up so you have no real way to win.

Just as an example I had a game over the weekend where my team had been losing the entire game and had our lanes pushed down to just the Ancient towers remaining. We defended for 15 minutes, allowing our carry and nukers to get the farm they badly needed and then won three consecutive team fights and managed to push down the middle lane and win.

 

[Clinkster]

It's both harder and easier, at the same time.

In all honesty, I've played LoL for 6 months, and I cannot find a single way LoL is harder. Open to an opinion on this though.

Additionally, plug-in to the DotA AT Group a member (Destiny) just made:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2312497

 

[Clinkster]

That is a huge misconception though. Since you can't see exactly how far behind in gold and experience you don't see just how far a fight can swing it in either team's favor.

Check the scoreboard to see how far behind in experience you are (levels are updated in real time).

EDIT: Changed due to my scoreboard bind being specific on not the default.

 

[Chiropteran]

In all honesty, I've played LoL for 6 months, and I cannot find a single way LoL is harder. Open to an opinion on this though.

Additionally, plug-in to the DotA AT Group a member (Destiny) just made:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2312497

In LoL, I find that the rune system and mastery tree makes it exceedingly annoying to play anything but the 2-3 champions I was planning to play, because I won't necessarily have the optimal rune page setup for random champion/role that I am forced to play by my team. And while mastery can be changed at the start of the match, if I don't have the optimal plan memorized it might not be enough time to look up the "correct" mastery setup. In a way, I'd argue this makes the game "harder", because it is an extra thing you need to memorize and prepare for.

The other is the skill shots in each game. In DOTA2, for the most part, if an ability is a skill shot it is one because the mechanics demand it to be a skill shot. The ability needs to be able to be aimed at nothing because there is a delay or something. In LoL, many abilities are skill shots for no good reason at all. It's like they take a nuke and think "hmm, lets mix things up and make this nuke a skill shot, just for the hell of it". In some ways, this makes the game harder, because it means there are a lot more abilities you need to learn to anticipate, dodge, or aim. IMO, it's the wrong type of skill- I like MOBA games because of the strategy involved, not the instant reactions required, but nevertheless it's a skill that I feel is required more in LoL than it is in DOTA.