News Dow bouncing around -1000

[dank69]

Name one thing that would have prevented this correction that Trump couldn't done. Show us your intelligence on the matter.

I'm not an expert and never claimed to be. From my limited understanding, and what I have been saying that you clearly don't understand, is that he couldn't prevent a correction. That is a straw man because you can't argue the actual points being made. What he could have done differently was not blow the deficit with unnecessary tax cuts. He should not have forced rate cuts every time the economy waivered a bit. These things would have probably prevented the market from getting so high in the first place, but he tied market performance to his ego and so made bad decisions to protect that ego. Now that the inevitable correction has come, all the levers we should have held in reserve to cushion the blow have been exhausted. So for the 100th time in this thread alone, he couldn't stop the correction. He could have been smart and prevented it from being as painful as it may turn out to be.

 

[fskimospy]

This is the same tack being taken with coronavirus ‘since no one could have prevented it entirely you shouldn’t blame Trump’.

Yes, we should! Just because something can’t be stopped entirely doesn’t mean all outcomes are equally bad.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I'm not an expert and never claimed to be. From my limited understanding, and what I have been saying that you clearly don't understand, is that he couldn't prevent a correction. That is a straw man because you can't argue the actual points being made. What he could have done differently was not blow the deficit with unnecessary tax cuts. He should not have forced rate cuts every time the economy waivered a bit. These things would have probably prevented the market from getting so high in the first place, but he tied market performance to his ego and so made bad decisions to protect that ego. Now that the inevitable correction has come, all the levers we should have held in reserve to cushion the blow have been exhausted. So for the 100th time in this thread alone, he couldn't stop the correction. He could have been smart and prevented it from being as painful as it may turn out to be.

As far as I know, this is all true. The fact there was a correction to make implies it wasn't at the right level to begin with. A more competent executive might not have ran the economy with the pedal to the floor, resulting in either a smaller correction or no 'correction' at all, just a dip as a result of China being unavailable.

He or she might have also not defunded much of the pandemic response capabilities we have, which could have limited how severe this outbreak was. That's a big maybe though.

 

[dank69]

Sorry. Youre wrong.

What a well-formed response. GTFO.

 

[dank69]

Nope. Youte wrong, Sorry.

Um....no. Youre wrong.

Worthless posts. GTFO.

 

[dank69]

They totally have a plan but its locked up in Ben Carson's brain and he isn't ready to talk about it yet.

He's been storing grain in the pyramids so we don't all go hungry.

 

[brycejones]

He's been storing grain in the pyramids so we don't all go hungry.

Dammit! He wasn't ready to talk about it. You've just blown it.

 

[K1052]

Who wants to bet when the Republicans finally come up with a stimulus plan it will be tax cuts and cash infusions for the corporations and something terrible like high interest, non-dischargeable, loans for hourly workers or letting people borrow against other future government benefits.

 

[dank69]

Who wants to bet when the Republicans finally come up with a stimulus plan it will be tax cuts and cash infusions for the corporations and something terrible like high interest, non-dischargeable, loans for hourly workers or letting people borrow against other future government benefits.

It's like you can see the future. Payday loans for everyone!

 

[fskimospy]

Who wants to bet when the Republicans finally come up with a stimulus plan it will be tax cuts and cash infusions for the corporations and something terrible like high interest, non-dischargeable, loans for hourly workers or letting people borrow against other future government benefits.

It will have to be something obvious and simple like a tax cut because they obviously only started coming up with it after Donny Dementia randomly blurted something out at a press conference.

 

[glenn1]

I'm not an expert and never claimed to be. From my limited understanding, and what I have been saying that you clearly don't understand, is that he couldn't prevent a correction. That is a straw man because you can't argue the actual points being made. What he could have done differently was not blow the deficit with unnecessary tax cuts. He should not have forced rate cuts every time the economy waivered a bit. These things would have probably prevented the market from getting so high in the first place, but he tied market performance to his ego and so made bad decisions to protect that ego. Now that the inevitable correction has come, all the levers we should have held in reserve to cushion the blow have been exhausted. So for the 100th time in this thread alone, he couldn't stop the correction. He could have been smart and prevented it from being as painful as it may turn out to be.

To play the devils' advocate here, there might not have been a bull market to have a correction from if he had pursued your counterfactual. I guess if your prime objective is to "prevent a correction" then perhaps doing things which would have "prevented the market from getting so high in the first place" is good plan. It's seems more of a personal preference whether a flat market/slightly up market with no correction is better than a big bull market with a correction following.

 

[IronWing]

Airline industry headed for the worst time since 9/11:

American cutting flights up to 10%. Retracted 2020 revenue guidance.

Delta cutting flights 15% or more, freeze hiring, forgoing 500M in capital projects, delay pension funding, suspend stock buyback. Bookings down 30% and they expect worse to come.

Norwegian announcing major schedule cuts and layoffs.

Southwest looking at flight cuts with dropping domestic demand.

I, for one, have delayed making reservations for a trip I'm supposed to make in a few weeks because:

1. Uncertainty about virus
2. Uncertainty about airlines cancelling flights (self-fulfilling) and me getting screwed on refund/reschedule
3. If airlines maintain flight schedule there is a likelihood of price drops
4. Airlines have made flying a sucky experience at the best of times
5. I'm not all that enthused about the trip

So, I'm part of the problem.

 

[dank69]

To play the devils' advocate here, there might not have been a bull market to have a correction from if he had pursued your counterfactual. I guess if your prime objective is to "prevent a correction" then perhaps doing things which would have "prevented the market from getting so high in the first place" is good plan. It's seems more of a personal preference whether a flat market/slightly up market with no correction is better than a big bull market with a correction following.

Well we all know who benefits from bubbles inflating and popping and who gets fucked, and we also know how much you like seeing regular folks getting fucked so the rich can get richer.

 

[K1052]

It will have to be something obvious and simple like a tax cut because they obviously only started coming up with it after Donny Dementia randomly blurted something out at a press conference.

The WH has been floating various tax cuts for the least year plus that have gone nowhere on the hill and there is scant evidence they've even really pushed for them.

Trump's just trying to prop up the markets with bullshit. He hasn't even talked to his own party about it who only controls one of the houses required for real action. Clown show episode 1,935.

 

[K1052]

I, for one, have delayed making reservations for a trip I'm supposed to make in a few weeks because:

1. Uncertainty about virus
2. Uncertainty about airlines cancelling flights (self-fulfilling) and me getting screwed on refund/reschedule
3. If airlines maintain flight schedule there is a likelihood of price drops
4. Airlines have made flying a sucky experience at the best of times
5. I'm not all that enthused about the trip

So, I'm part of the problem.

Normally I'd be scheduling 4-6 trips for biz and pleasure through the end of the year. Presently planing zero.

Not having substantial flexibility to change plans if the situation worsens or improves does not help and they are being somewhat stingy still with those policies.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

To play the devils' advocate here, there might not have been a bull market to have a correction from if he had pursued your counterfactual. I guess if your prime objective is to "prevent a correction" then perhaps doing things which would have "prevented the market from getting so high in the first place" is good plan. It's seems more of a personal preference whether a flat market/slightly up market with no correction is better than a big bull market with a correction following.

One is more chaotic than the other. If the chaos we've seen from the WH is any indication, then chaos in the markets is probably really bad too.

Just because some people come out ahead doesn't mean it's a good thing.

 

[UNCjigga]

It's like you can see the future. Payday loans for everyone!

Payroll tax cuts for corporations and small business loan guarantees for the “small business owners” (less than 10 employees—all family-owned) that make up their donor base.

 

[zinfamous]

People keep blaming the virus, but I see that as a trigger, not the cause. For that, we need to look at what the bears have been saying for years: cheap money, corporate buybacks, and a disconnect from accountability.
I'm not retiring anytime soon, so I'm long everything, but I think deep-down we all had to have known that the day was going to come when the Fed and the govt couldn't keep inflating the market through rate cuts, tax cuts, and bailouts.

exactly. the virus is just the catalyst to jumpstart the convulsion that the market has been long overdue for.

don't worry, this enema will just do what it always does--kick out a significant portion of lower and middle-class people with their once-stable, but ultimately meager savings such that the wealthy with their endless supply of tax-free monies will be able to gobble it all up at cheap cheap prices, declaring themselves brilliant and by virtue of "unforeseen circumstances" the original proper owners of that wealth all along, anyway. More wealth trapping, it's all it is.

It's exactly what this whole Reagan business of retirement via-401k was only ever designed to do, and has been super effective at achieving all along. All this is in the decades since, is just punctuated hemorrhaging that exposes the weakness of the "prudent planning" engineered by GOP acolytes that does nothing but make their base poorer, and the actual elites--the inherited wealth of the ultra lazy and untalented, the corporatists, the mildly educated MBAs and brainless managers of faceless industry--wealthier and wealthier and wealthier; simply because they were gifted the tools of access.

And it will continue, until the people simply can't take any more of it. This is where politicians simply refuse to listen to history. To understand. Marx was a warning against this exact thing--he wasn't a guide to make it happen, but simply illuminated the inevitable of maintaining this very same course. He was a student of history, and understood this. The blood and death is what will happen when the illiterates at the top blindly treat such analysis as "evil commie propaganda!" Such is the folly of the pridefully ignorant.

 

[UNCjigga]

Blaming everyone but himself yet again

https://twitter.com/x/status/1237377697917140992

 

[zinfamous]

You mean the part of will Trump take credit for the downturn? My answer indirectly answered that. He knows this downturn isnt his fault (which it isnt). But how about answering my question? Has any POTUS taken the blame for a downturn?

why isn't this his fault? He's been gassing the market for years now, against all rational advice by all people vastly smarter than he (or anyone that would ever vote for this idiot), and now there is no leverage to use against this crisis, when shit has truly hit the fan.

explain how that isn't his fault.

 

[zinfamous]

But....the economy HASNT crashed. Stock market != the economy. At least in my mind, I look at market corrections as better for my bottom line using dollar cost averaging.

Now, if unemployment and/or inflation had risen to double digits, that would be a different discussion.

again: you wouldn't be saying that if it was blackie or a D in charge.

suddenly, your math would determine that the economy is the stock market and that it has crashed, because D! It would, because that is your MO. You have a history of posting here, which is what informs everyone else, and it's a shame that you are the only one that seems to forget that.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

why isn't this his fault? He's been gassing the market for years now, against all rational advice by all people vastly smarter than he (or anyone that would ever vote for this idiot), and now there is no leverage to use against this crisis, when shit has truly hit the fan.

explain how that isn't his fault.

People have been blaring warnings about this literally for years. This was a debt that would come due eventually, and now it has. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can argue this, so I have to assume it's either trolling or gaslighting.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

again: you wouldn't be saying that if it was blackie or a D in charge.

suddenly, your math would determine that the economy is the stock market and that it has crashed, because D! It would, because that is your MO. You have a history of posting here, which is what informs everyone else, and it's a shame that you are the only one that seems to forget that.

Ironically he called it a crash again a few posts later, once he got nice and liquored up.

 

[Jhhnn]

To play the devils' advocate here, there might not have been a bull market to have a correction from if he had pursued your counterfactual. I guess if your prime objective is to "prevent a correction" then perhaps doing things which would have "prevented the market from getting so high in the first place" is good plan. It's seems more of a personal preference whether a flat market/slightly up market with no correction is better than a big bull market with a correction following.

Gawd. It's not personal preference. It's a policy decision affecting the welfare of millions of working families who aren't market players at all.

 

[zinfamous]

...it's at this point that you realize the average conservative is so preposterously gaslit that they can't hold the simplest, honest debate reagarding plain, unambiguous facts.

everything is a fucking attack on them. You argue about the vanishing of tools that were once available to respond to these crisis, they ten determine that you have instead claimed that you are arguing about the cause of the crisis.

such people can not be helped until they accept how fucking stupid they are. Honestly, do you guys have any appreciation of how truly awful you are at engaging in what used to be the simplest of adult discussions?

None of you are capable of listening to a single argument outside of the assumption that "labeled enemy is only ever going to hurl a comment at me that is somehow disparaging to me." This completely distorts every single conservative's ability to think rationally. There is never an argument on the merits of the issue--it is always "them vs me!"

This is what conservative gaslighting has done to these people. The tools of rational human thought have been explicitly removed from the base of the GOP, and it is so prominently on display in these days. None of them have the capacity to think rationally now. They can't engage in topics because at the base level, facts no longer exist. Facts are only what their belief commands. Personal thought is the purest form of nobility, apparently, because it can never be challenged.

Conservatives are broken. They have been mustered by the GOP to bring about the death of democracy. The fact that they can't see this explicitly in Trump is a condemnation of every single one of them.

I believe that they are victims, and should be helped. Of course, pointing this out is also an attack. They can never be victims, of course, and the cucking that the GOP has done to them for decades must never be acknowledged. ...I get it. It's human nature to defend yourself at all costs, especially when your brain has decades of priming towards "what is right." I know how hard it is for the brain to adjust to being so woefully wrong for decades. I think for such conservatives, enlightment will only ever happen for them, if at all, while witnessing the bloody pile of corpses that are their neighbors and fellow Americans after their indefensible conservative delusion has inspired them to murder everyone--I mean, it's the only way to stop meanies from patiently explaining to them how wrong they are.

Conservatives murder other Americans at a 75% clip over any any other group, and that is a plain fact. It is inarguable. This tells you that they are already about the business of murdering everyone that disagrees with them. It's a long ride ahead, and one can only imagine what they will do when their Orange Emperor is defeated.