Downgrading from Phenom II to Core 2 Quad

[soccerballtux]

To be honest, I'm getting $550 for either the:
Q6600, 8gb ddr2 and IP35e board
OR
Phenom II 965 at 4.0 ghz, 8 gb ddr3 and 790FXT-UD5P board

Please don't ask me why I'm getting this amount of money, I just am

I'm just afraid that the Core2 won't perform up to how much the Phenom II can perform.

Does the person you're selling to want to overclock? Has the IP35-e been overclocking that q6600 for a while? If the board is fresh there might be less vdroop.
vdroop is supposedly "normal" and engineered in by Intel??? So some people said. (I don't care if it is, I DON'T like it)

The performance difference between the Ph2 and q6600 clock for clock goes away when you have the CPU-NB/L3 cache clocked at 2.6ghz, plus you'd be getting a newer platform and a board that has a better (IMO) power supply...I'd definitely go for the Phenom 2. But hey, of course I would, I already made that decision once
bonus of the amd one is you'd have DDR3 and could go to Bulldozer with that DDR3 if you so desired in the future if it's any good.

 

[soccerballtux]

you can measure the vdroop by forcing the processor into it's highest clocked state-- but keeping it "unloaded" (IE nothing sucking CPU power just keep it <10&#37; load in Task Manager), then opening Prime95 and running torture test, and watching the voltage drop in CPU-z.

 

[sangyup81]

llc to eliminate vdrop/vdroop isn't always a better solution

 

[dpk33]

well i got the board from a user on these forums and i'm not sure what he was running on it. how bad is the vdroop effect on a Q6600 after a few years of light overclocking, say 3.0 ghz?

 

[soccerballtux]

llc to eliminate vdrop/vdroop isn't always a better solution

yeah we got a big thread on that. One side says the transients with LLC can damage your chip, some people disagree, but please lets not start that one again...

 

[soccerballtux]

well i got the board from a user on these forums and i'm not sure what he was running on it. how bad is the vdroop effect on a Q6600 after a few years of light overclocking, say 3.0 ghz?

probably not desirable, it's the reason I sold mine on ebay....I mean technically everything is still fine it's just...not "new" like it used to be.
Can you test it?
3ghz not so bad, if it were like 3.6ghz that would be a lot more...but it's still probably significant.
When I was running my e8400, it kinda negated most of the "Intel Speedstep" voltage drops that happen when the chip is idle.

 

[soccerballtux]

I'd say it really only matters if one wants to take the chip as far as it can safely go...which is what I wanted to do, and I wanted it to last a long time on me...and I wanted a Quad cores, so putting all those things together it became apparent if I got a quad and overclocked it as high as possible, in 2 years I was going to have to buy a new socket 775 board which I didn't want to do just to maintain the overclock.

 

[dpk33]

So how long would a 3.6ghz cpu be able to keep its overclock on an IP35e? I might just use the board for something else and get a better p35/p45/x38/x48 board.

EDIT: How would a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L do against the Abit IP35e?

 

[VirtualLarry]

EDIT: How would a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L do against the Abit IP35e?

Both have bad vdroop. Neither one is that great for overclocking a Q6600 long-term. Try to find an X48 board cheap, that has better VRMs. My DFI T2R board is great for OCing my Q6600 @ 3.6.

 

[Smartazz]

My brother has a Phenom II X4 in his rig and I have a Q6600 in mine. I used his rig for a few weeks and it's definitely noticeably faster, especially since I keep my Q6600@3GHz to keep the voltage low.

 

[dpk33]

Both have bad vdroop. Neither one is that great for overclocking a Q6600 long-term. Try to find an X48 board cheap, that has better VRMs. My DFI T2R board is great for OCing my Q6600 @ 3.6.

I can never find x48 boards anywhere sadly. I'll try looking in the forums. What about P45 and x38 boards?

 

[dpk33]

Would P45 or x38 boards be a good alternative as well? It's difficult to find x48 boards.

 

[Obsoleet]

I'd keep the Phenom.

I would probably say keep the C2Q if it were a slightly newer one like mine (Q9450), but being a Q6600 I'd let it go and stick with PII. It's newer, has more potential and a viable upgrade path with X6.

There's a lot of reasons I don't like the Q6600, but I always hated how the Kentsfield Q6600 has 4MB L2 cache for 2 cores, and it doesn't share with the other 4MB module.

So that's 4MB max L2 accessible by 1 core.
Rather, a Yorkfield or newer has 12MB cache, all accessible by 1 core.
Either way, the Phenom is the one I'd use.. I definitely don't prefer 1 brand or another, just best of breed.

 

[Obsoleet]

Would P45 or x38 boards be a good alternative as well? It's difficult to find x48 boards.

And P45s are awesome. I've had a lot of chipsets for my Q9450, starting with the X38. The P45 (smaller) is the way to go.

 

[jellowiggler]

I run my Q6600 on my gigabyte ep45-ds3r at 3.2ghz at stock voltage. It will do at least 3.4 ghz, but I only have a Freezer 7 Pro on it for cooling and the peak temps were getting too close to Intel's spec limit.

If I ever get a corsair a70, freezer 13 pro, or the like I'll try to push it.

I don't see investing in a better cooler for this setup though. It will last me until q3 2012, then I'll check out upgrades.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'd keep the Phenom.

I would probably say keep the C2Q if it were a slightly newer one like mine (Q9450), but being a Q6600 I'd let it go and stick with PII. It's newer, has more potential and a viable upgrade path with X6.

There's a lot of reasons I don't like the Q6600, but I always hated how the Kentsfield Q6600 has 4MB L2 cache for 2 cores, and it doesn't share with the other 4MB module.

So that's 4MB max L2 accessible by 1 core.
Rather, a Yorkfield or newer has 12MB cache, all accessible by 1 core.
Either way, the Phenom is the one I'd use.. I definitely don't prefer 1 brand or another, just best of breed.

You've got that wrong. Q6600 has 8MB of cache, 4MB per each dual-core chip, sandwiched together.

Q9550 or 9650 has 12MB of cache, 6MB per each dual-core chip.

In neither case, can one core access all of the cache.

 

[Obsoleet]

You've got that wrong. Q6600 has 8MB of cache, 4MB per each dual-core chip, sandwiched together.

Q9550 or 9650 has 12MB of cache, 6MB per each dual-core chip.

In neither case, can one core access all of the cache.

That's exactly what I said. 2x4MB cache units, not shared on the Q6600.

You have it wrong on the 2nd part. Yorkfield had unified cache, 1 core can access it all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkfield
"Yorkfield (codename for the Core 2 Quad Q9x5x series and Xeon X33x0 series) features a dual-die quad core design with two unified 6 MB L2 caches"

 

[VirtualLarry]

That's exactly what I said. 2x4MB cache units, not shared on the Q6600.

You have it wrong on the 2nd part. Yorkfield had unified cache, 1 core can access it all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkfield
"Yorkfield (codename for the Core 2 Quad Q9x5x series and Xeon X33x0 series) features a dual-die quad core design with two unified 6 MB L2 caches"

It's on two seperate dies. The architecture, including the L2 cache, did not change significantly between Kentsfield and Yorkfield.

When they say "unified", pretty sure they mean that each of the cores on each dual-core die share it.

Edit: If it were a singular 12MB cache, wouldn't they say that, rather than TWO unified 6MB caches?

 

[Obsoleet]

It's on two seperate dies. The architecture, including the L2 cache, did not change significantly between Kentsfield and Yorkfield.

When they say "unified", pretty sure they mean that each of the cores on each dual-core die share it.

Edit: If it were a singular 12MB cache, wouldn't they say that, rather than TWO unified 6MB caches?

Unified cache in Yorkfield is accessible across the core pairs. 1 thru 4 cores can access all the L2 cache.
Yes it is two separate physical cache, but 1 logical cache unlike Kentsfield.

Looks like the OP chose the Q6600. I would take a good Phenom2 over Kentsfield, but not over a Yorkfield. They're all in the same ballpark but I'd have to give the edge to the Phenom2 over Kentsfield, and call it roughly equal between a Yorkfield and PII. I had the same decision to make myself between what I have and a 955BE w/native SATA6 and USB3 as well as move to DDR3, and chose to keep my slightly overclocked Q9450 and the awesome ICH10R storage controller. To this day I do think the 955 is a little snappier, it's hard to objectively tell. Case in point, PhenomII's and their platform are great for many reasons and don't receive the dignity they deserved as with most of AMDs CPUs.

 

[bryanW1995]

Definitely keep the phenom II and sell the Q6600 rig.

 

[formulav8]

There is Absolutely NO reason to keep the Core2 q6600 over the Ph2 965. The Ph2 is faster, oces much better, and will be better for future workloads as well.

If you oc, then take your Ph2 to 3.8ghz or so and oc the NB to 2.6ghz (2.8ghz 'may' be possible) or so. You can get up to 5&#37;-10% increase just by the NB oc alone in a couple area's if thats important to you.

 

[gramboh]

Bit confused, you're going to end up with just one computer, so why not sell both and use the proceeds to buy a 2500k + cheap P67 board combo with 8GB of DDR3? Should easily get enough for that with current 775 prices and the good deal you can get selling the PII?

 

[dpk33]

Bit confused, you're going to end up with just one computer, so why not sell both and use the proceeds to buy a 2500k + cheap P67 board combo with 8GB of DDR3? Should easily get enough for that with current 775 prices and the good deal you can get selling the PII?

Because I can sell EITHER the Core 2 combo or the Phenom II combo to someone for about $550 dollars. Don't ask why I'm getting this amount of money for it, I just am. I figured if I sell off the Core2, I'll still have my Phenom II rig oc'ed to 4.0 ghz like I did for the past few years. And also, if I ever wanted to sell the Phenom II rig, I woud have no possible local buyers, so I would have to sell it on the forums and ship, which costs a lot of money since I'm located in Canada.

 

[gramboh]

Because I can sell EITHER the Core 2 combo or the Phenom II combo to someone for about $550 dollars. Don't ask why I'm getting this amount of money for it, I just am. I figured if I sell off the Core2, I'll still have my Phenom II rig oc'ed to 4.0 ghz like I did for the past few years. And also, if I ever wanted to sell the Phenom II rig, I woud have no possible local buyers, so I would have to sell it on the forums and ship, which costs a lot of money since I'm located in Canada.

Ah, you must live in a small town or something? Was going to say, just throw the other rig up on craigslist/kijiji and it will be gone within a week at a fair price (at least here in Vancouver).

 

[Insomniator]

Just keep the Phenom, its a better chip and getting 550 for those C2Q parts is ridiculous.

If you are getting the same money, what is the point of going from a newer chip at 4.0 to an older chip at if you are very lucky, 3.6?