downside to new firefox

[Mem]

Maxthon isn't really a browser, AFAICT

Hehe.. trust you to nick pick

Maxthon Combo (Formerly MyIE2) is a powerful multi-page browser based on the IE core (IE5.x or IE 6.0 required). It can open multiple web pages in just one window.

And it only takes a little system resource when surfing with a greatly integrated user interface. It also supports special Plug-Ins & IE Extensions to let you have an enjoyable surfing experience.


Features:

· Tabbed Browing Interface
· Mouse Gestures
· Super Drag&Drop
· Privacy Protection
· AD Hunter
· Google Bar Support
· External Utility Bar
· Skinning
· And Much More to Explore... .

Anyway take your choice from
here .

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: spyordie007

Originally posted by: KeyserSoze
Man, this is one thing that's almost forcing me to go back to IE. I've used FireFox/Phoenix/Firebird for a while, but I just can't get over this. I've searched through their forums, but haven't really found much.

I'll leave my computer for a few hours, and then come back, and it will take SOOO FREAKING LONG for Firefox to start responding again, like an SUPER long time. I have a 2.8 w/ 512 RAM, and it should not be this slow. I understand that it's designed this way, as to free up memory when not in use, right?

I'm going to play around with it a little longer, but if I can't figure this out, then I really might have to go back to IE.

Let's hope that doesn't happen. If anyone knows any links to specifically tweak the memory management, please post them!!!!!!


KeyserSoze

I used to have the same problem all the time; but it stopped after problably .9.2 and I havent seen it since. I have not tweaked the memory management.

Alright, well I'll start with a total uninstall, and deletion of all profiles/directories, and try from scratch. I have been just "updating", and then I'll also read the posts in this thread.

Firefox is alright, I mean to me it's nothing that special. The TRUE power is in the extensions that I've come to love soo much, that just make browsing a better experience.




KeyserSoze

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: KeyserSoze

Originally posted by: spyordie007

Originally posted by: KeyserSoze
Man, this is one thing that's almost forcing me to go back to IE. I've used FireFox/Phoenix/Firebird for a while, but I just can't get over this. I've searched through their forums, but haven't really found much.

I'll leave my computer for a few hours, and then come back, and it will take SOOO FREAKING LONG for Firefox to start responding again, like an SUPER long time. I have a 2.8 w/ 512 RAM, and it should not be this slow. I understand that it's designed this way, as to free up memory when not in use, right?

I'm going to play around with it a little longer, but if I can't figure this out, then I really might have to go back to IE.

Let's hope that doesn't happen. If anyone knows any links to specifically tweak the memory management, please post them!!!!!!


KeyserSoze

I used to have the same problem all the time; but it stopped after problably .9.2 and I havent seen it since. I have not tweaked the memory management.

Alright, well I'll start with a total uninstall, and deletion of all profiles/directories, and try from scratch. I have been just "updating", and then I'll also read the posts in this thread.

Firefox is alright, I mean to me it's nothing that special. The TRUE power is in the extensions that I've come to love soo much, that just make browsing a better experience.




KeyserSoze

That won't help. Mozilla and Firefox are both just significantly slower to swap in from disk than other apps - even if they're swapping in the same amount of data. See bug 76831 (there are LOTS of comments, but this comment summarizes the problem well).

 

[spelletrader]

Originally posted by: VIAN
I WENT BACK TO IE. STILL KICKS ASS, FREE, FAST. SP2 SECURITY PROTECTION.

SP2 Protection?

Ahem.

 

[silverpig]

4.8 MB minimized, 28 MB maximized with 6 tabs and this reply window...

 

[Nothinman]

I WENT BACK TO IE. STILL KICKS ASS, FREE, FAST. SP2 SECURITY PROTECTION.

The only ass IE kicks is that of it's users.

 

[spelletrader]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I WENT BACK TO IE. STILL KICKS ASS, FREE, FAST. SP2 SECURITY PROTECTION.

The only ass IE kicks is that of it's users.

Agreed.

 

[RaNDoMMAI]

I just got a problem with the new firefox recently

I installed it yesterday, then this morning when i clicked on bookmarks; all my bookmarks were gone!!!
It just says bookmark this page and manage books when i click on bookmarks.

It wont even add new bookmarks when i click on boommarks this page.

Anyone know about this problem and how to fix it?

TIA
~RaNDoM

 

[BespinReactorShaft]

Couple of things which annoy/still annoy me about FF 1.0
- Download manager is buggy somehow, does not always disappear whenever downloads finish (even if you configure it as such)
- Whenever you delete a bookmark from the "Bookmarks" dropdown menu, it still makes the dropdown menu disappear (unlike IE)
- It seems to totally ignore importing of my existing FF 0.8 bookmarks during first installation (even when it's going into the same folder)
- The extensions are totally messed up (last I checked, almost nothing on the official extensions website)

btw I am still using FF 1.0 as my primary browser.

 

[RaNDoMMAI]

Originally posted by: ming2020
Couple of things which annoy/still annoy me about FF 1.0
- Download manager is buggy somehow, does not always disappear whenever downloads finish (even if you configure it as such)
- Whenever you delete a bookmark from the "Bookmarks" dropdown menu, it still makes the dropdown menu disappear (unlike IE)
- It seems to totally ignore importing of my existing FF 0.8 bookmarks during first installation (even when it's going into the same folder)
- The extensions are totally messed up (last I checked, almost nothing on the official extensions website)

btw I am still using FF 1.0 as my primary browser.

I think i deleted a bookmark and then all mine disappeared!

How do you make it work again?

~RaNDoM

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: ming2020
- The extensions are totally messed up (last I checked, almost nothing on the official extensions website)

There are ~3-4 people who approve extensions and add them to the official website. Approving involves install the extension, testing it for a few minutes to make sure it seems to do what it claims, and uninstalling it. There are a huge number of extensions that get submitted, and testing them takes a lot of time. I happen to be one of those people, and unfortunately my school workload got a lot heavier recently. I know at least one of the other update.mozilla.org admins is also extremely busy with non-Mozilla-related work. update.mozilla.org is still fairly new, and there are a lot of issues being worked out. Anyway, there are about 80 extensions up now, and ~40 themes. That's not "almost nothing".

 

[spelletrader]

Originally posted by: ming2020
- The extensions are totally messed up (last I checked, almost nothing on the official extensions website)

Visit the extensions home page and dowload straight from there, I got all but 1 of my PR extensions working that way.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: CTho9305
That won't help. Mozilla and Firefox are both just significantly slower to swap in from disk than other apps - even if they're swapping in the same amount of data. See bug 76831 (there are LOTS of comments, but this comment summarizes the problem well).

I wonder if that is related to some of the issues dealing with garbage-collection? I know that Mozilla after 1.2b developed a severe problem in that area, in that simple things like tabs/windows opening/closing/minimizing would trigger something like *four* runs through the garbage-collection routines, which apparently touch nearly everything that is dynamically-allocated, which means that on a VM system, combined with the memory leaks that Moz had back then, you had a recipe for thrash-mode disaster. I noticed that they've mostly fixed both issues with FF 0.9.1+, although recently running FF 1.0RC2 in XP SP1, instead of on W2K SP2 (other OS has some repair issues that I need to attend to soon), there can be a definate "wake-up" lag again, after all of the windows have been minimized. I never noticed that on W2K, so either it was brough back as an issue in 1.0RC2 or sometime after 0.9.1, or it is something about XP's VM system. (I tend to blame XP, although the original issues linked above were definately Moz's fault.)

Just an interesting FYI, using FF 0.8 I've hit as much as ~1.5GB of VM allocated, before it finally keeled over and died. I've seen 900MB VM numbers under 0.9.1, and now with recent 1.0PR nightlies and 1.0RC2, I've not been able to get it over around 600MB of VM, it seems to stabilize around there.

However, unfortunately, they still haven't fixed the GDI leak bug! From what I understand, ImageLib stores a GDI handle with cached images, when it doesn't have to (they are supposed to be used under Win32 only for actual active display-element purposes), so eventually the app, and sometimes the OS, runs out of GDI handles and the UI gets all screwy.

That's the biggest current limitation to using Firefox for me, anyways. I tend to hit that limit after a few days of browsing.

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: CTho9305
That won't help. Mozilla and Firefox are both just significantly slower to swap in from disk than other apps - even if they're swapping in the same amount of data. See bug 76831 (there are LOTS of comments, but this comment summarizes the problem well).

I wonder if that is related to some of the issues dealing with garbage-collection? I know that Mozilla after 1.2b developed a severe problem in that area, in that simple things like tabs/windows opening/closing/minimizing would trigger something like *four* runs through the garbage-collection routines, which apparently touch nearly everything that is dynamically-allocated, which means that on a VM system, combined with the memory leaks that Moz had back then, you had a recipe for thrash-mode disaster. I noticed that they've mostly fixed both issues with FF 0.9.1+, although recently running FF 1.0RC2 in XP SP1, instead of on W2K SP2 (other OS has some repair issues that I need to attend to soon), there can be a definate "wake-up" lag again, after all of the windows have been minimized. I never noticed that on W2K, so either it was brough back as an issue in 1.0RC2 or sometime after 0.9.1, or it is something about XP's VM system. (I tend to blame XP, although the original issues linked above were definately Moz's fault.)

I don't think that particular issue is related to garbage collection - I think GC is fairly infrequent. I'm told (#developers on moznet) that GC happens when you close a window (bug not a tab), and this seems to be true. AFAIK, there shouldn't be a GC when you unminize a window. If this slowness only happened when mozilla was hundreds of MB, I'd understand, but it's slow even when it's only using a little of it's VM space.

Just an interesting FYI, using FF 0.8 I've hit as much as ~1.5GB of VM allocated, before it finally keeled over and died. I've seen 900MB VM numbers under 0.9.1, and now with recent 1.0PR nightlies and 1.0RC2, I've not been able to get it over around 600MB of VM, it seems to stabilize around there.

Odd, I've taken Mozilla to 1.5GB with no problems (besides incredible slowness). I've *occasionally* experienced crashes while the disk is thrashing, and those crashes seem to be related to tooltip timers (I haven't had the time to track it down exactly - it looks like somehow an object is being freed twice, or freed too early).

However, unfortunately, they still haven't fixed the GDI leak bug! From what I understand, ImageLib stores a GDI handle with cached images, when it doesn't have to (they are supposed to be used under Win32 only for actual active display-element purposes), so eventually the app, and sometimes the OS, runs out of GDI handles and the UI gets all screwy.

That's the biggest current limitation to using Firefox for me, anyways. I tend to hit that limit after a few days of browsing.

The only GDI leak I know of is this one - see also duplicates here and here... that bug is fixed.

 

[Anubis]

Opera does a very similar thing with its cashe, however it works better IMO, because they both cashe so much stuff lets them operate so fast

Opera has an option to limit disk & memory cashe to a certian amount of leave it on auto, if you set it to say 30 megs it WILL USE 30 megs +/-2-3 megs and never ho higher then that

 

[UCJefe]

Yep. I went back to IE after being a longtime Firefox user because of the swapping issue. It took >30sec on my system (2GHz, 1GB RAM) to get back to being completely responsive. I really wanted to use Firefox but after awhile, I just couldn't handle it anymore. So sad. --numFirefoxUsers;

 

[Platypus]

Mem usage is completely ridiculous compared to .8, so much slower, and everytime you download something, the download manager freezes the entire browser and won't respond for like 10 seconds, each time you download something.. what a waste

 

[Nothinman]

Yep. I went back to IE after being a longtime Firefox user because of the swapping issue. It took >30sec on my system (2GHz, 1GB RAM) to get back to being completely responsive. I really wanted to use Firefox but after awhile, I just couldn't handle it anymore. So sad. --numFirefoxUsers;

Why not just avoid minimizing it? I've been using FF 1.0 on Windows for a bit now and it seems fine to me even with having it run for days at a time. I'm not sure if the config.trim_on_minimize setting still exists or not, but you might want to try that, I personally havn't had a need to yet.

Mem usage is completely ridiculous compared to .8, so much slower, and everytime you download something, the download manager freezes the entire browser and won't respond for like 10 seconds, each time you download something.. what a waste

I have never seen that happen, the download manager isn't exactly fast but it never freezes my browser.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Yep. I went back to IE after being a longtime Firefox user because of the swapping issue. It took >30sec on my system (2GHz, 1GB RAM) to get back to being completely responsive. I really wanted to use Firefox but after awhile, I just couldn't handle it anymore. So sad. --numFirefoxUsers;

Why not just avoid minimizing it? I've been using FF 1.0 on Windows for a bit now and it seems fine to me even with having it run for days at a time. I'm not sure if the config.trim_on_minimize setting still exists or not, but you might want to try that, I personally havn't had a need to yet.

Mem usage is completely ridiculous compared to .8, so much slower, and everytime you download something, the download manager freezes the entire browser and won't respond for like 10 seconds, each time you download something.. what a waste

I have never seen that happen, the download manager isn't exactly fast but it never freezes my browser.

It never happened to me previous to this version. When I rightclick/saveas anything, there is a giant lag before the browser comes back to life, also, scrolling is laggy and terrible while a page is still loading. I'm moving back to .8 until they can come up with something better than this.

 

[imported_obsidian]

Hmm, I run Firefox on a 1.5GHz P4 with 512MB ram at work fine.

 

[Nothinman]

It never happened to me previous to this version. When I rightclick/saveas anything, there is a giant lag before the browser comes back to life, also, scrolling is laggy and terrible while a page is still loading. I'm moving back to .8 until they can come up with something better than this.

I say something else is wrong with your machine, I'm running it on a P4 2.8 with 1G memory and it runs fine and I know there are a number of people where I work running it on much slower machines and they're not complaining either.

 

[UCJefe]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Yep. I went back to IE after being a longtime Firefox user because of the swapping issue. It took >30sec on my system (2GHz, 1GB RAM) to get back to being completely responsive. I really wanted to use Firefox but after awhile, I just couldn't handle it anymore. So sad. --numFirefoxUsers;

Why not just avoid minimizing it? I've been using FF 1.0 on Windows for a bit now and it seems fine to me even with having it run for days at a time. I'm not sure if the config.trim_on_minimize setting still exists or not, but you might want to try that, I personally havn't had a need to yet.

The problem isn't only minimizing it. It's also just periods of inactivity when it's in the background and you're using other apps. I just came across that trim_on_minimize setting and am playing with it now. We'll see how that goes. I'm giving Firefox yet another chance.

 

[Nothinman]

The problem isn't only minimizing it. It's also just periods of inactivity when it's in the background and you're using other apps.

I'm running VMWare and other things on the same machine so there's no lack of memory contention and I have yet to see an instance where FF takes a very long time to respond.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: CTho9305
The only GDI leak I know of is this one - see also duplicates here and here... that bug is fixed.

Possibly it's fixed on the Mozilla trunk nightly builds, but it is definately NOT FIXED in Firefox.

I've been seeing the bug ever since Moz 1.2b, on everything Moz and FF-ish up until now. It's a serious design defect that limits my usability of the browser.

One thing that I have noticed, with FF, is that after that number gets reached, if I continue to use it (carefully, by closing tabs/windows before opening other ones), somehow, after about a day, the GDI handle count drops back down to like 4000-odd, instead of 99xx, and then the problem doesn't manifest until it gets back up to 99xx, and then it usually crashed, but definately doesn't drop back down again.

Either way, though, there is no excuse for it to be using so many GDI handles period, their Win32 API usage, with respect to GDI, is simply malformed and mis-designed. No other app is that bad.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

It never happened to me previous to this version. When I rightclick/saveas anything, there is a giant lag before the browser comes back to life, also, scrolling is laggy and terrible while a page is still loading. I'm moving back to .8 until they can come up with something better than this.

I say something else is wrong with your machine, I'm running it on a P4 2.8 with 1G memory and it runs fine and I know there are a number of people where I work running it on much slower machines and they're not complaining either.

Worked in .8, doesn't in 1.0, MUST BE MY MACHINE :roll: logic--