[DPC]-Killemall messing around with everyone's stats

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ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,347
8,434
126
is this the DPC metallica fan group or something?
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Humm, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some logic issue. There's 68 billion blockks to search, and each one is 16 characters long(at least, I'm just using the 8 hex values on each side of the : here), each hex value being 4bits(2 hexs a byte); meaning that each block is 8 bytes before it's even cracked. Then, you have the issue of recording who cracked each block, which menas that on average, you'll have a 15 byte email addy taking up even more space. This results in 22 bytes a block, and a total of 1.4TB worth of data if everything was cracked/

Now, DNet probably stores more info than what I mentioned, and they're probably using more tricks than just a comprssed DB to hold everything, this means that if they're using any sort of odd trick that may not work in extreme cases(be it load, or luck), then there could be a problem. I don't belive the DB is storing anything wrong per-say, but I do belive that if JHutch's theory is right, then it isn't sending complete logs to the statsbox.

Does Dnet have a problem Mabey. Does it suck? Yes. Is project integrity being comprimised? No. Can Dnet fix it before the UD move is complete? Most likely not.
 

GreatWhiteNorth

Senior member
May 8, 2000
311
0
0

Kilowatt uddered:


<< I mean I've seen some pretty nasty stuff said about TA members over at GOT. >>




<< But, I guess you're right, we're not allowed to express our opinions or suspicions here in our own forums. >>



Yeah! Now cut it out! How dare you defend your 'home'.


-GWN

 

narzy

Elite Member
Feb 26, 2000
7,006
1
81
ya if we flame them because they flame us, were no better then they are, and we ARE better then them.
 

soh

Junior Member
Dec 25, 2000
7
0
0
Well, i don't think we do flame TA on our forums. I'm not saying that cuz i'm Dutch, I'm saying that cuz I think it's true. I read the whole GoT every day, but people who do actually flame at TA get flamed back by members of the DPC, i'm serious. Of course there are always some a$$Os who think saying everything they want, this also isn't appreciated by 99% us.

Bad people do exist eh?? Especialy where there is competition.
 

LeBlatt

Golden Member
Dec 8, 1999
1,220
0
76
While it may lead nowhere, I have to disagree on your count, Virge.
There are 2^64 keys. That is 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 or 18 billion billions.
Keys are grouped in blocks. Each block is 2^28 keys. That is 268,435,456 or 268 million keys per block.
So, divide 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 by 268,435,456 you get 68,719,476,736 or 68 billions blocks.

Everybody knows that 68,719,476,736 = 2^36.

If you remove (bits in keyspace=64) from (bits in 1 block=28) you get 64-28=36. How strange.

What misled you is that most blocks we get have an hex address of ########:00000000, like E8EEEEF5:00000000. But if you look at the logs more closely, and you've not been doing large blocks only, you'll find some blocks with an address of ########:#0000000 which means a block always start at an address of 9 chars, not 8.
That is 36 bits, not 32. (I'll use char instead of byte, cause we're talking unsigned values here, but it still means 8 bits anyway).

So every block in the overall table needs 36 bits to store the address. Then we have the participant. I'm sure as hell dnet don't store the full email in the database. That has to be in a separate participants table.
Instead, they would store the participant's ID number. To go simple, they may store the ID in a 32^bit value, allowing for 4 billion participants (a bit optimistic, hey ?). Which would give us 36+32=68 bits records.
Or maybe they tried to fit it along with the block address into a multiple of 8 to use an integer number of chars for both fields (know how processing are faster and easier to implement with chars than bits ?). That gives the possibility of 36+20=56 or 7 chars (20 bits : 1 million participants).
We are now over 330,000 participants, so maybe (I hope) they planned ahead and chose the next possibility : 36+28=64 or 7 chars (28 bits : 268 million participants)
So a record in the main table would be between 56 (too few) and 68 (too much) bits, that is between 7 and 8,5 bytes, 8 bytes being an optimal value IMO. But we have more fields to add. The first one would be the date when the block was cracked. I, for one, would store that in an value that represents the offset of the date since the project began.
We can only guess how long they planned the project to last, but using 12 bits allow for a 4096 days project, and every additionnal bit allows for twice longer.
Other values sent by the client are the client build (again, 12 bits allow for 4096 revisions), OS and CPU type (8 bits or 256 values seem to be enough for each).
Also, I suppose the database adds an internal field for the record count. I suppose Sybase uses 64 bits indexes to handle over 68 billion records in a table, as the databases I use can theoretically store a max of 4 billion (32 bits adresses), and I have never had a table with more than 150,000. I know of a few DBAs using the same (paradox) and have a few tens of millions, but not more.

So a (really) blind guesstimate would be around 64+12+12+8+8+64=168 bits, or 21 chars per block.
21x68,719,476,736=1,443,109,011,456 bytes or 1.4TBytes. Funny that we get the same result with a different approach.
Though there may be a lot of bad estimates here, and maybe they don't store all of the above values in the final table to save space.
Should we have guessed right, the project is now about 40% complete, and dnet would have a main result table of 0.4*1.4=0.56 TB or 560 Gigs. To which we must add the participants table, the teams table, and the participants history table. I'll leave it to Decibel (or is it Moose ?) to give more accurate info after all.

/edit speelcheker !
 

Viztech

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,807
0
0
I don't know why, but the disapearance of Dnet work seems to be limited to RC5.
I watch the T-Stormer's OGR work rather closely, and all of it flushes through the TeAm proxy. On those occasions where we have been short, it has shown up the next day (or two in case of those keyserver constipations)

I have saved backups of large flushes to resubmit direct to Dnet the day after I flushed to the TeAm proxy. I couldn't tell if this yielded more blocks credited, but if someone wants to try out this theory, I know that everyone here would be interested to see if those lost blocks get counted on the second pass.

viz
 
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