[DPC]-Killemall messing around with everyone's stats

[MolecA]

[DPC]Killemall's 1.4M January flush seems to have stolen at least 1000 blocks from everyone for the day. I don't know if he was doing mostly randoms or expired blocks or what? but I'm down over 1000 blocks for the day (proxies vs. dnet) some are down more than 10 000.

I personally think this is rubbish dunno if you all have something to add to it

 

[Dutchman2000]

probably got backlogged and credited some other day. Very few blocks actually get lost, most that seem to disappear are credited the next (few) days. Checking our legendary koebot: [12:49] <koebot> Dutchman: Op 01 februari om 12:45:04 stonden er bij d.net nog 3939573 blokjes te wachten op hun beurt. --> at that time there were 3.939.573 blocks that were caught up in the full-proxy. These get flushed to the master server ASAP, but sometimes ASAP means the next day.

 

[MadRat]

[cough]bullsh*t[/cough]

Said by a true DPC, eh?

 

[Dutchman2000]

[cough]bullsh*t[/cough]

Said by a true DPC, eh?

excuse me ?

 

[FR43k]

When a subteam does a big flush and blocks get clogged in the backlog, it is easy to
point a finger at the DPC's to blame. This is very easy to do offcourse but the main problem is with D.net. When DPC people explain the reason why blocks were not counted today, it is not very nice to make fun of them. Dutchman doesn't deserve such agressive reactions to a friendly explanation post. This thread could be seen as a flame to DPC's on this forum but I really hope this was not the reason of this thread?

 

[Kilowatt]

And if it was a flame at the DPC in OUR forums, I say that would just be too bad.

You don't need to come here if you find it objectionable.

 

[JHutch]

Kilowatt,

There is also no reason to flame unless it is warranted. And here it isn't. Dutchman is absolutely right. Most people's &quot;lost blocks&quot; turn up the next day. There are quite a few layers a block has to travel through to get to the keyserver. Plus, the keyserver is running at 1/4 power of what they want it to (only 1 CPU in there so far) and it sometimes can't keep up with the incoming flow of blocks.

JHutch

 

[MolecA]

I did not intend to flame DPC with this thread. I just wanted to point out that blocks went missing for everyone today and I said what the problem *could* be. I have since spoken to mechBgon about it and he has clear it up with more or less the same explanation that Dutchman has come out with.

But still this is a glitch. we can all sit here and speculate what happens at dnet but for us stats addicts it just not enuff! just as long as my blocks aren't gone.

nice flush btw

 

[Michael]

MolecA - I don't see how this is a DPC issue. There are two possibilities. 1) The lost blocks are duplicates - well that's just the way it goes, who ever submits first gets credit. 2) dnet servers are backed up - since this is now a more and more common occurance, I think it is in dnet's court to get that fixed.

Michael

 

[Kilowatt]

Gee JHutch,
Did you take what I wrote to be a flame?

I mean I've seen some pretty nasty stuff said about TA members over at GOT.
But, I guess you're right, we're not allowed to express our opinions or suspicions here in our own forums. :disgust:

 

[Train]

Randoms: Submitted First by another person, you lose credit.

if someone saves for a dump, how can they be submitting blocks before people who werent saving and subitting every day? Seems like the person who saves should get the penalty (by probablity) The person who saves is the one taking a risk by letting the blocks age, in my eyes, until i see a better explanation is BULLSHIT

You cant say he submitted randoms, usually randoms come from machine that have lost the ability to get blocks from a server, to my knowledge no one SHOULD let a machine do randoms on purpose, and if its a machine you cant reach, how would you be able to use it when saving for a dump? Again, sounds like BS



<< Very few blocks actually get lost >>

again, BS, this happens a lot, we have people who keep a VERY close eye on thier pproxies and even give DNet a few days to catch, up, but it never happens.

 

[kranky]

I don't flush my pproxy daily, and when I do (direct to dnet) I know exactly how many blocks I sent. In December I definitely lost about 20K blocks, which I flushed again a week later but they never got credited. In that case it looks like they were recognized as being cracked, but the credit didn't go to my account.

But sometimes they don't all get credited the same day, for instance yesterday I got credited for 2K+ blocks which were actually flushed the day before. FWIW, I typically flush about 1-2 hours before 00:00 GMT.

When I happen to end up with some randoms, I notice the keys are pretty close to the actual blocks being cracked. Somehow, the client picks randoms which aren't totally random, they are in the neighborhood of the keys it had been doing. That's one reason why randoms can get credited, if they show up first before the person who did the work &quot;properly&quot;.

 

[FR43k]

But even without saving blocks, people loose blocks.
What is distributed.net doing when a random block is submitted?
Will they take it out so other people won't do them again or are all blocks done twice which were done random? this could explain the loose of blocks. In that case: OMG!!!!

 

[Bobco]

Could it be that D.net is actually handing out a small amount of duplicates?

 

[DanC]

The &quot;flush stunts&quot; have been found to be pretty much universally distasteful to everyone (including dnet) except for those who insist on continuing to do it. Whenever any mention is made of this - It is vigorously defended by a whole raft of new 'junior members'.

Perhaps there's more to this situation than meets the eye.

Chocolate pudding anyone?

 

[LeBlatt]

Bobco : It is known that dnet will occasionally issue dupes for various reasons, for example to check that someone is not sending fake results. But those &quot;legal dupes&quot; will be credited to those who crack them. As a result, when we were cracking CSC last year (similar to rc5, but shorter), we went through 110% of keyspace before the key was found, since many blocks were cracked twice for cheat-proof verification.

 

[JHutch]

Kilo,

I wasn't saying you were flaming (and I apologize if it sounded like I was). I was just taking exception to your implied comment (and I may be misreading you) that since this is a TA forum, we can flame away at any and all DPC visitors just because they are DPC. THAT is what I have a problem with.

The specific flaming I was referring to was MadRat's bullsh!t comment. Dutchman had a very plausible and to the point post, which MadRat blew off. I happen to agree with Dutchman's analysis 100%.

As far as the few times I have seen proof of missing blocks ... I have a theory.

Suppose I do a 32 WU block. However, some random block was turned in that was somewhere INSIDE my 32 WU block. I have this sneaking suspicion that the keyserver throws out the whole 32 WU block, since part of it was already done. Anybody have any ideas/facts about whether it actually works this way?

JHutch

 

[ElFenix]

i think i'll have some of that chocolate puddin'

 

[MadRat]

Dutchman,

Hey, no offense meant, considering you're a TA member. Besides that I am just jealous of the Dutch DPC team's keyrate and the fact that their country's women are much prettier than ours!

 

[Russ]

MadRat,

Dutchman2000 is actually a DPC member, but he's one of the cool ones.

As far as missing blocks go, NO they do not always show up the next day. Sometimes they show up, but other times they simply vanish. In some cases, MANY have vanished.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Train]

prettier women???? your crazy, US has the best mix of hotties in the world, IMO

 

[Train]

love the sig quote RUSS

 

[LeBlatt]

JHutch' theory sounds quite concerning. Should it prove true, that would be a real bug in the keyserver's logic, and could cause a lot of past and future work to be lost. I do hope it isn't but this definitely needs to be clarified. I'll browse dnets FAQs for any clue on that.

/edit : I doubt I'll find anything about it. If this was mentionned, then dnet is aware. If they're aware, they sure took care of it. Let's see anyway.

 

[LeBlatt]

As expected, no details on how dupe cheching works exactly. But 2 articles are directly related to this thread :
- I'm missing work units!

- Do random blocks show up in stats

 

[MadRat]

American women are often very pretty, but we raise such conceited women in our society. I've met alot of Dutch women and most of them are very well cultured. If you've never been surrounded by Dutch women then you don't know what you're missing!