Dragon Age 3: Inquisition announced

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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
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While I agree RPG's are about doing a lot of quests, some of them meaningless, DA:I's version of this is more like an MMORPG than your traditional RPG.
 

cytoSiN

Platinum Member
Jul 11, 2002
2,262
7
81
While I agree RPG's are about doing a lot of quests, some of them meaningless, DA:I's version of this is more like an MMORPG than your traditional RPG.

Agreed. But people forget that they don't have to grind. They can just do the main story and move on with their lives..especially in a game like DA:I where the story quests scale to your level for the most part. They'll miss seeing all of the abilities, locations, sub plots, and items, but that's OK for some. The gamers I don't get are those that play like completionists then complain about it. There was a ton of this sort of criticism about Skyrim too. The main story was like 15 hours max, and perfectly doable in less. But there were 100s of hours of sideshows. Most people enjoyed them, but a vocal minority hated them and still spent 80+ hours doing them!

 
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Aug 11, 2008
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True about Skyrim to some extent. But at least there were the guild quests, which were not essential to the story, but were interesting of themselves and seemed to have a more meaningful point than a lot of DA:I quests.

Also unfortunate in DA:I was the ability to only use 8 active skills. Sort of took the fun out of leveling up when you could use no more skills and were forced to choose passive ones simply because you were out of skill slots. As a matter of fact, I even ran out of passive skills to use toward the end of the game. In Skyrim you could keep levelling up and put skills into stealth, archery, magic, HEALING, crafting, two handed weapons, and on and on.
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
46
True about Skyrim to some extent. But at least there were the guild quests, which were not essential to the story, but were interesting of themselves and seemed to have a more meaningful point than a lot of DA:I quests.

Also unfortunate in DA:I was the ability to only use 8 active skills. Sort of took the fun out of leveling up when you could use no more skills and were forced to choose passive ones simply because you were out of skill slots. As a matter of fact, I even ran out of passive skills to use toward the end of the game. In Skyrim you could keep levelling up and put skills into stealth, archery, magic, HEALING, crafting, two handed weapons, and on and on.
Yeah I was finding skills that were passive just to save the hassle.

You cannot just go along with the main missions in this game. You won't be leveled high enough. You have to do a ton of side missions to level enough, and they are just boring after a while.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,143
30,099
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well the 8 skill slot design doesn't force you to use passives--it's simply the way the skills are designed.

With a character ~level 23, you can really only focus on two trees, + your focus tree. There are some active skills that you won't be able to slot, but many of those are very redundant, anyway.

The skill design for this one was such that each active skill packs far more utility than your typical skill in other RPGs that might have dozens of skills and endless, stupid skill slots. The passives are meant to be used here, as that is where much of the class functionality is realized.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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I dont think it was a design decision to make the game better, rather sloppy porting from a console interface. In any case, it could not hurt to provide more skill slots. If the player feels skills are redundant, he can certainly leave some empty. And if the skills are so redundant as to eliminate each other, then that is poor design of the skill tree in and of itself.

But I definitely feel there are more than 8 active skills that are useful, especially after you get into the focus tree.
 

Dunkman04

Member
Nov 17, 2010
51
0
66
When DA:I was good it was really good, the best game I played this year by far. That said, it took me well over 2 months to finish and I never really felt a big compulsion to play until I neared the end. Much of the main quest was great, as were some select side and companion quests. It just seemed like it could have hit those high points a lot more often. Much of my time playing I felt like I was just doing what I had to do in order to get to the next really enjoyable section.

I think doing a better job of tying the main quest to the different zones would have helped. Saving a village I happened to pass makes a lot more sense than just deciding I'm going to roam around for a few days despite the fact that the world could end at any time. I know I'm building up my army, reputation, alliances, etc., but they didn't really do a good job of tying that into the main quest.

As with many games the last few years, I'm left wondering what it could have been if it didn't have to be out holiday 2014. All the pieces were there for a truly exceptional game, it just didn't come together like it could have.
 

Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
136
The 8 skill slot limit is unforgivable, especially on PC where it shouldn't be an issue. It puts an artificial limitation on the amount of viable builds that can be used, and makes gameplay much more repetitive..

Basically, I never even use my focus abilities as I have no more buttons to map them to..
 

cytoSiN

Platinum Member
Jul 11, 2002
2,262
7
81
I don't understand the complaining about 8 skills. I can't think of a single build where you'd need to use more abilities than that in any fight in this game. As a Tempest Archer, I use my three flasks, Thousand Cuts, Leaping Shot, and the other three are just gravy, whatever I feel like putting in there. As I leveled I changed skills out as I progressed, but I never once thought, "damn, I really with I could've used NINE DIFFERENT SKILLS IN THAT SINGLE FIGHT." If you want to change a skill or two out to fight a dragon with certain resistances, it takes about 10 seconds to do that before combat. I get it, players don't like limitations, but I don't understand the complaining when those limitations don't actually affect game play. The limitation that DOES affect game play -- the HORRIBLE tactical camera -- is really the only thing about DA:I that made me change my play style.
 

Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
136
I don't understand the complaining about 8 skills. I can't think of a single build where you'd need to use more abilities than that in any fight in this game. As a Tempest Archer, I use my three flasks, Thousand Cuts, Leaping Shot, and the other three are just gravy, whatever I feel like putting in there. As I leveled I changed skills out as I progressed, but I never once thought, "damn, I really with I could've used NINE DIFFERENT SKILLS IN THAT SINGLE FIGHT." If you want to change a skill or two out to fight a dragon with certain resistances, it takes about 10 seconds to do that before combat. I get it, players don't like limitations, but I don't understand the complaining when those limitations don't actually affect game play. The limitation that DOES affect game play -- the HORRIBLE tactical camera -- is really the only thing about DA:I that made me change my play style.

My character is a reaver, and I've adapted him to the 8 skill limitation fairly well, but thats only because most of the reaver's abilities are passive.

But like cmdrdredd said, what if your character is a mage? And with enemies having tons of resistances to different elements or spells, it can be problematic to be limited to only using 8 at one time.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
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My character is a reaver, and I've adapted him to the 8 skill limitation fairly well, but thats only because most of the reaver's abilities are passive.

But like cmdrdredd said, what if your character is a mage? And with enemies having tons of resistances to different elements or spells, it can be problematic to be limited to only using 8 at one time.
I thought the dual wield rogue was the most difficult with the skill limitation. My mages worked pretty good with 8, though 10 would have been better.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
I thought the dual wield rogue was the most difficult with the skill limitation. My mages worked pretty good with 8, though 10 would have been better.

Agree.

It would have been fun to have maybe 12-14 skills available on the DW rogue. There were a lot of skills you had leveled, even in mid-game, and I felt like I missed-out on a lot of them because I didn't want to constantly re-spec.

Its annoying when poor design choices this are made. A smart dev can find a solution, even on consoles for this. For example, they added holding-down a trigger button and it re-maps the primary buttons, they could have also added re-mapping (for tertiary abilities) on the other side. There are other solutions too, and the bonus is that if the console user doesn't need them, they can disregard and it doesn't impact their experience.

The better way is just to update the PC version to allow for more commands.
 

cytoSiN

Platinum Member
Jul 11, 2002
2,262
7
81
The better way is just to update the PC version to allow for more commands.

Hah, true. I certainly used more than 8 throughout the game, but I never used more than 8 at a time, or even wanted to, on my mages, tank, or archer. I didn't control a DW rogue, but I still don't see how you'd need more than 8 at one time. You don't have enough stamina, let alone time, in most fights to use that many skills. The variety of options is nice, but realistically it was never an issue for me on everything other than 2H warr or DW rogue, which I didn't play.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Hah, true. I certainly used more than 8 throughout the game, but I never used more than 8 at a time, or even wanted to, on my mages, tank, or archer. I didn't control a DW rogue, but I still don't see how you'd need more than 8 at one time. You don't have enough stamina, let alone time, in most fights to use that many skills. The variety of options is nice, but realistically it was never an issue for me on everything other than 2H warr or DW rogue, which I didn't play.

DW rogue assassins get free stamina after killing a target, which they were quick at. They had plenty of stamina. Tempest DW rogues, have 8 seconds of 0 cooldown and no stamina cost on abilities. They could also use abilities. The issue with the DW rogue, is they need 1 or 2 extra abilities for normal use. Basically, I trimmed mine down to a reasonable skill list, but I could not get the jump evade ability on my hotbar without losing something critical.

I needed stealth, the jump behind backstab that makes you go stealth, Twin Fangs, and the finisher. On top of that, my Tempest needs to have 3 super abilities, and a focus ability. That leaves no room for the jump evade ability, which is pretty critical for dragon fights. Luckily, or maybe by poor design, my tempest DW rogue could 1 shot all but 1 dragon, so the jump evade because less needed.
 

cytoSiN

Platinum Member
Jul 11, 2002
2,262
7
81
Luckily, or maybe by poor design, my tempest DW rogue could 1 shot all but 1 dragon, so the jump evade because less needed.

I had the same issue with my Tempest archer. Thousand Cuts (with two Enhanced Thousand Cuts rings), popped right after Flask of Fire (so you don't actually use any focus) is just way too OP. I'm sure that added to my not needing more than 8 skills. But it also made the game less grindy because I didn't waste any time fighting things I didn't want to be fighting.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,143
30,099
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The 8 skill slot limit is unforgivable, especially on PC where it shouldn't be an issue. It puts an artificial limitation on the amount of viable builds that can be used, and makes gameplay much more repetitive..

Basically, I never even use my focus abilities as I have no more buttons to map them to..

It's totally forgivable. It's way better than a bar that stretches across the bottom of the screen where you shove pointless skills that you will likely never use.

Any class in this game is perfectly overpowered with only 8 active skills. IMO, this is the last thing worth complaining about in DA:I. Just learn to redesign your build in late game.

MMO-style endless skill slots needs to die.
 

artemicion

Golden Member
Jun 9, 2004
1,006
1
76
The 8 skill limitation is a minor annoyance. It doesn't even come close to being the biggest flaw in the game.

One of the biggest issues is with the pace of the plot. A lot of people here mentioned little desire to progress in the game. That's because the writers were terrible at telling a story that had any semblance of momentum. No cliff hangers. No feeling of imminent danger. No pressure to complete the next quest. Corypheus spent most of the game as a vague threat a million miles away from the events occurring to the player.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
117
116
The 8 skill limitation is a minor annoyance. It doesn't even come close to being the biggest flaw in the game.

One of the biggest issues is with the pace of the plot. A lot of people here mentioned little desire to progress in the game. That's because the writers were terrible at telling a story that had any semblance of momentum. No cliff hangers. No feeling of imminent danger. No pressure to complete the next quest. Corypheus spent most of the game as a vague threat a million miles away from the events occurring to the player.

Yeah, that's what I'm feeling. Never got that feeling in either of the first two games.

KT
 

cytoSiN

Platinum Member
Jul 11, 2002
2,262
7
81
just got the game this morning. Man does it look really good...Frostbite is amazing.

Agreed. It looks so good I don't care about some of the negatives, and have enjoyed almost 100 hours in it. Trying to complete everything else possible before going to chase the bad guy for the last time.
 

Fulle

Senior member
Aug 18, 2008
550
1
71
Anyone else find it unusual that the LGBT population in real life is about 3-5% of the population, but in DA:I it's like 50% or something? It feels forced, and was a little immersion breaking for me.

To be clear, I don't have a problem with LGBT people.... I think it's cool DA:I has LGBT characters who are represented as normal people, and not wacko villains or something, but the LGBT population in San Francisco (the gayest city in America) is only like 15%.... and in most of the US, it's under 4% of the population. I mean.... for so many of the Inquisition's prominent members to be LGBT, it just comes across as highly unusual, and a forced agenda in the writing.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,143
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Anyone else find it unusual that the LGBT population in real life is about 3-5% of the population, but in DA:I it's like 50% or something? It feels forced, and was a little immersion breaking for me.

To be clear, I don't have a problem with LGBT people.... I think it's cool DA:I has LGBT characters who are represented as normal people, and not wacko villains or something, but the LGBT population in San Francisco (the gayest city in America) is only like 15%.... and in most of the US, it's under 4% of the population. I mean.... for so many of the Inquisition's prominent members to be LGBT, it just comes across as highly unusual, and a forced agenda in the writing.

that was a discussion back around...page 10 or so of this thread (I am on 75 ppp...so I have no idea what post number that would be).


my opinion: meh.
 

Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
136
It's totally forgivable. It's way better than a bar that stretches across the bottom of the screen where you shove pointless skills that you will likely never use.

Most RPGs get around slot limitations by using multiple quick bars, or the dreaded radial menu. Anyway, for me it's not forgivable. You have all of these abilities, but can only use 8 of them at a time... As a consequence, my reaver never gets to use his focus abilities because of the stupid limitation..

That to me is bad game design.. And while many of them are redundant, it's still nice to have the choice..
 

Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
136
Anyone else find it unusual that the LGBT population in real life is about 3-5% of the population, but in DA:I it's like 50% or something? It feels forced, and was a little immersion breaking for me.

To be clear, I don't have a problem with LGBT people.... I think it's cool DA:I has LGBT characters who are represented as normal people, and not wacko villains or something, but the LGBT population in San Francisco (the gayest city in America) is only like 15%.... and in most of the US, it's under 4% of the population. I mean.... for so many of the Inquisition's prominent members to be LGBT, it just comes across as highly unusual, and a forced agenda in the writing.

Yep, like zinfamous said, it was already discussed many pages back. I agree with you though, for what it's worth.

Bioware undoubtedly panders to the LGBT community in their games, which isn't to say that I think that's a bad thing. Bioware can do whatever they like with their I.P, and if they want to make a fantasy world where 50% of the population is LGBT, then more power to them.

Personally though, I prefer more authenticity and realism in my Sci-Fi & Fantasy media, and so do a lot of people. That's why authors such as George R. R Martin etcetera have become so popular. Their worlds, characters etcetera are so life like that suspension of disbelief becomes appallingly easy.

The same goes for the Witcher series. The world of the Witcher is so authentic compared to Dragon Age's Thedas, that for me full immersion is easy to attain.

With Bioware, I get the opposite feeling most of the time. Dragon Age Inquisition is still a good game though, but the setting smacks of being contrived..
 
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