DrCool's System Builders Guide - NOV 04

[DrCool]

well, after reading the same posts day after day.. I decided to put together a detailed system builders guide.

6 Systems, divided into 3 categories, with a Home User and Gamer version of each:
Budget, BBB (best bang for the buck), and Cutting Edge

check it out: http://www.drcool.us/index.php...007e6ddb01f80ff50c16d0

NOTE: this site is hosted off my personal computer, and may not be avalible on occasion

 

[Subhuman25]

Are you nuts?

A cutting edge gamers system with only a 6600GT in it and only 512MB of RAM on an Intel P4 3.0 CPU?I'll not even venture with your other choices i.e. case,optical & hard drives and especially the MS wireless mouse.OMFG My current system ran me ~$1800 and runs circles around your proposed solution at a $600 cost penalty.
I needed a good laugh this morning - Thanks

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Subhuman25
Are you nuts?

A cutting edge gamers system with only a 6600GT in it and only 512MB of RAM on an Intel P4 3.0 CPU?I'll not even venture with your other choices i.e. case,optical & hard drives and especially the MS wireless mouse.OMFG My current system ran me ~$1800 and runs circles around your proposed solution at a $600 cost penalty.
I needed a good laugh this morning - Thanks

So you don't agree, fine. At least he spent time on a guide for the benfit of the users here...

:|

 

[fuzzynavel]

why is the cutting edge home system more expensive than the cutting edge gamer system???
Anything a gaming system can do is overkill for a home office user!!

surely cutting edge means best performance.....6600GT..I don't think so....

budget systems don't need SATA....save some money there...

$55 on a case....not a budget system...
$55 on a PSU.....not budget...get case and PSU combined.....don't need high quality for budget PC
19" monitor....overkill for budget buyer......15" or maybe 17" if buyer can stretch
$41 for a keyboard....rip-off..

I personally could go through each of those lists and save a fortune by changing components to make each system for what the user requires.....

If someone wants a home use PC then just get a gaming PC and remove bit and downgrade till you hit their price limit........home use PC's should need nowhere near the power of a gaming system....

over $1000 dollars on a budget system......don't be silly

Oh and that cutting edge gaming system is by no means cutting edge......every benchmark shows the AMD 64 kicking Intels ass in gaming so where is the AMD CPU???

512 MB RAM.....not enough

GeForce 6600GT Video Card, 128MB ......at least get a FX6800 ultra 256MB or X800XTPE 256MB


damn go back to the drawing board and do it properly!!

the work is appreciated....but hopefully we can help you correct your few oversights!

 

[Xatrix]

Cutting edge gaming would be an athlon 64 fx-55 w/ a 6800 Ultra

 

[DrCool]

subhuman25

your a little behind on latest technology
the cutting edge gamer is based on the PCI Express platform, whose performance is superb. The 6600GT is a PCI Express version.. not the AGP version your probably thinking of. And since I didn't actual build it and benchmark it, you can't say anything will run faster then it.

have you even read any reviews on PCI Express?
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/pri...ntent.asp?id=pciegpuso

All the systems i'm quoting are COMPLETE systems. The cost includes a MONITOR, OS, KeyBoard, Mouse, and Speakers. I'd like to see you price something that even comes close.. put your figers into action before you rant!

The price point for my Budget setup is ~$1000 pre Tax & Shippng, which is VERY reasonable considering it's a COMPLETE system.

The price point for the BBB was ~$1500 pre Tax & Shipping

The price point for the Cutting Edge was ~$2500 pre Tax & Shipping

Each Component was chosen for a very specific reason, and i'll probably go through and add commentary today.

fuzzynavel

did you even read my Buliders Guide, or are you just thread crapping?
the systems are all COMPLETE systems, with unique price points. Home Users prefer LCD screens, there is plenty of market studies to back that up.. LCD's are more expensive, so they are a big chunk of the budget. Also on the cutting edge Home User, they'd want Home Theater Quality audio, and the Klipsch Speakers are the cream of the crop.

obviously you've never used the KeyBoard i'm quoting in every single setup.. KeyTronic Keyboards have LIFETIME warranties, and are custom designed for heavy use. The one i specified is known for it's quality construction and abillity to take daily abuse. If you've ever used one, you'd know why the $41 is well worth it.

I've been using MS mice for a long time now, and the MS Optical Wireless is been a favorite of mine for the past year. Great response, battery life, and quality construction.

 

[jpeyton]

Positives:
*Your guide is pretty complete, with OS, KB/Mouse, Thermal Compound, etc.
*You make seperate configs for Home and Game systems.

Areas for improvement:
*No links to actual e-tailers; a time-saver.
*Your budget price point is too high; it is generally recognized that ~$600 is the max price for a budget system w/ monitor, OS, etc. nowadays.
*You haven't done enough research on actual components to squeeze the most performance out of your budgets; your high-end gamer does not have a sufficient video card, and the PCI-E/DDR2 platform for the P4 lags behind the current NF3/A64 platform in most performance benchmarks. Just because it's the newest platform does not mean it's the fastest.

 

[DrCool]

alright.. the guide is now complete.

I've fine tuned all the setups, finalized the specs, and added some intro for a more coherrent structure.

check it out:

http://www.drcool.us/index.php...4c3e12d0c706bf25c201d2

 

[caivoma]

i havent check it out yet but thanks for the effort man.

 

[Mik3y]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Positives:
*Your guide is pretty complete, with OS, KB/Mouse, Thermal Compound, etc.
*You make seperate configs for Home and Game systems.

Areas for improvement:
*No links to actual e-tailers; a time-saver.
*Your budget price point is too high; it is generally recognized that ~$600 is the max price for a budget system w/ monitor, OS, etc. nowadays.
*You haven't done enough research on actual components to squeeze the most performance out of your budgets; your high-end gamer does not have a sufficient video card, and the PCI-E/DDR2 platform for the P4 lags behind the current NF3/A64 platform in most performance benchmarks. Just because it's the newest platform does not mean it's the fastest.

totally true.

anyways, another user in anandtech has already created a more complete and proper system builders guide, no offense. $1000 for a budget system is not a budget system. i can build a mid-high end system for that price with everything included. have i done it before? yes. can i do it again? yes. I still give you 10/10 for effort though. not many people take the time and effort you put in to help others, and you're the kind of people anandech forums need. :thumbsup:

 

[DGath]

1) An LCD screen on a budget computer?
2) Wireless mouse on a budget system?
3) 256 Megs on a budget system? Budget means you are cutting corners and 128 megs is the most common thing to do. Budget gets 128, average user gets 256, and top of the line home gets 512. I won't build systems with 128 megs and XP, but then again... I don't build budget/shortcut systems.
4) Why the hell does a BBB home user system need a gig of ram?
5) Why does a BBB home user need anything more than a sempron? 2600 is a great processor, but I think way more than a home user needs. I just built a 2600 with 256 for a friend and it is way more than he needs.
6) Why two optical drives? Only reason to have to is for a moron who doesn't know how to copy an audio CD too a HDD, which Nero will automatically do. The systems I build for clients, I don't use two optical drives on a system with a DVD burner unless they ask for them. Systems with a DVD-rom is another story.
7) 240 meg storage for a home user? Please! 40 is more than enough for 90% of the people I build systems for.
8) XP Pro? WTF? Please tell me you know the differences. If so, why does the average home user need pro? Also... Pro is the opposite of bang for your buck.
9) LOL... a 64 3000+ and 512 megs of ram is cutting edge for gaming? You put 1 gig for a BBB home user! Ever play Farcry? Doom3?
10) Why would you pair a z680 set with onboard sound? Onboard sound is usually enough for most people, hell it's what I use and I'm happy with it. But then again, I didn't buy one of the best 5.1 systems available. If I'm spending money on that, you bet your ass I'm buying an Audigy equivelent card.

I'm speechless really. Apparently that thread where you built a way out of whack system for a guy about a week ago wasn't an abnormality, but apparently it's pretty common. I'm not saying that you are flat out wrong, building systems is all about opinion. Just to reiterate what I told you about a week ago, unless there is overclocking happening, you don't need anything more than valueram. It all runs at the same speed. It's like saying a Porsche runs faster at 45 MPH than a Ford. With lifetime warranties on ram, if a stick is giving your errors, RMA it.

Like I said, this whole thing is all opinion. I'm not going to say you are wrong or stupid, but I just really really disagree with a lot of advice you handed out in this and other threads. You tend to stick solely with the highest quality names, which sometimes doesn't always equal the highest quality parts. Your idea of top of the line brands is out of whack as well. The builders on Anandtech typically prefer the top 20% of components, you appear to go with the top 5% typically.

I used to think that the only high quality computer you could have was an Antec PSU with an Asus board and matched sticks of ram. Then I realized I was paying premiums for those companies marketing performance. Then I learned a lot of things and realized that a lot of my opinions were incorrect and I was being way too picky. I'm sure some of my opinions right now are wrong too. I've met a lot of people in the industry and nobody I've met is perfect in regards to non-biased, perfect advice.

I think I'll stick with the forum's System Builders Guide.

 

[Numan]

your a little behind on latest technology
the cutting edge gamer is based on the PCI Express platform, whose performance is superb. The 6600GT is a PCI Express version.. not the AGP version your probably thinking of. And since I didn't actual build it and benchmark it, you can't say anything will run faster then it.

PCIE does not automatically mean better.

An 6800GT or 6800Ultra AGP is better then a 6600GT, reguardless of it's slot type. There is no current AGP 6600GTs and until I start seeing them pop up at stores I don't believe there will be. The port type of the 6600 doesn't matter either, since the lesser AGP isn't maxed out, so neither is the PCIE. You didn't have to build anything to know that a 6800GT/U will beat the 6600GT. Just simple benchmarks and numbers.

 

[AnotherGuy]

with $1000 u can make a great gaming system... not cutting edge but about 80% performance of cutting edge!

 

[Maggotry]

Your lastest rev is better, but until you get an Audigy, a 6800U, and 1GB of RAM, it ain't "cutting edge" to me.

 

[fuzzynavel]

As said above your latest revision is better......

I was not thread crapping and did read your whole article....

to me...some of your systems didn't appear to have been thought out properly

I still think cutting edge gaming should be AMD FX55.....A64 3000+ should go in bang for buck with a nice overclocking board and some reasonable RAM...

Also For cutting edge gamer.....a lot of them don't seem to have budgets...they have bottomless pockets when it comes to technology......so the best of the best is possible...

Also as said earlier....I don't think most home users really know much about their computers and any computer built today will be able to run web applications and word processing....

If you were meaning the systems to be usable for thing such as video editing and raytracing as a sort of home office computer then the specs have to be changed again..

Sorry for the downer but I'm just saying it as I see it.....Nice work though...but still a few tweaks needed

 

[DrCool]

Okay, let me debunk the fallacies, some of you pass off as fact..

lets use this often referred to benchmark on why AMD64 FX is the 'fastest':
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...oc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

The lowest processor on this is list is the AMD Athlon XP 2000+ (1.667GHz) which retails for about $63.
The top processor on this list is the AMD Athlon 64 FX 53 (2.4GHz) which retails for about $820.

okay, now lets compare the numbers.. the AMD Athlon XP 2000+ scores 46.1 FPS, whereas the AMD Athlon 64 FX 53, scores 103.4 FPS.. well that would be just over 2x the performance. LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN.. for $700 more, you get a WHOOPING 2x the performance..

now, let me address the biggest flaw in this thinking. once you hit 60FPS, you'll never VISUALLY notice anything over 60FPS, so if you compare 100FPS and 60FPS, you wouldn't even know it, unless the screen was actually displaying the current FPS. So if you system is running a game at 60FPS, it doesn't affect your game performance, or in any way inhibit your ability to play said game.

so, an AMD Athlon XP 3000+, when using the same VIDEO card, will not show any VISUAL difference from an AMD ATHLON 64 FX 53..

lets do the same fallacy debunking about VIDEO CARDS, here is the often referred to benchmark on why the 6800 ULTRA is the 'fastest':
http://graphics.tomshardware.c...004/vga_charts-07.html

again the nvidia GeForce 6800 ULTRA goes for about $590 RETAIL, while the GeForce FX 5200 goes for about $65 RETAIL. That would make the 6800 Ultra 9x the cost of the FX 5200.

how the numbers compare: the GeForce 6800 Ultra scores a 77.5 FPS, while the FX 5200 scores 11.9 FPS, thats about a 7x performance increase, which comes extremly close to the 9x price difference.

so what do the FACTS tell us.. that PROCESSOR makes little difference when it comes to gaming (when we are talking about CURRENT processors), while the VIDEO CARD itself, makes a HUGE difference.

now, which combo should you go with.. the combo that offers the BEST price to PERFORMANCE ratio.. which in this case, looks like a AMD Athlon XP 3000+ paired with a GeForce 6800 (non ultra).

PLEASE do not continue to spread ignorance, and instead do some research before you spout off.

 

[Numan]

again the nvidia GeForce 6800 ULTRA goes for about $590 RETAIL, while the GeForce FX 5200 goes for about $65 RETAIL. That would make the 6800 Ultra 9x the cost of the FX 5200.

how the numbers compare: the GeForce 6800 Ultra scores a 77.5 FPS, while the FX 5200 scores 11.9 FPS, thats about a 7x performance increase, which comes extremly close to the 9x price difference.

so what do the FACTS tell us.. that PROCESSOR makes little difference when it comes to gaming (when we are talking about CURRENT processors), while the VIDEO CARD itself, makes a HUGE difference.

You running for votes tonight? How does any of that mean anything to your earlier suggestion that a 6600GT PCIE is better then a lowly old AGP 6800GT ?

 

[Boonesmi]

lol what are you talking about?? "PCI Express platform, whose performance is superb" all the benchmarks ive seen show very little advantage in the PCIe

and not a very good choice of cpu/mobo or video card for BBB gamer... for around $50 more you could get a lower end athlon64 and it would give a huge boost in gaming.

check out the benchmarks link the athlonXP is getting spanked majorly by the lower rated athlon64

and even though nvidia is my favorite card manufacturer, in that price range the radeon 9800pro is a much better gaming card (and can be found for less then $150)

$41 keyboard?? ouch those $$ could be put to much better use (ie. better mobo/cpu)

 

[Glavinsolo]

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[Glavinsolo]

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[Sentinel]

Don't flame him for getting a guide together for us, use constructive criticism.

 

[Boonesmi]

Originally posted by: Sentinel
Don't flame him for getting a guide together for us, use constructive criticism.

lol, i kinda flamed him

but i thought my post also had constructive criticism also

 

[Gothgar]

guide = :thumbsdown:

Edit: are you sure this isn't a hoax or joke, cause those systems blow, not as in fast, as in blow dogs.

 

[Gothgar]

and one more thing, jpeyton > *.drcool

one major difference between your two guides, his doesn't suck

 

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by: Boonesmi

Originally posted by: Sentinel
Don't flame him for getting a guide together for us, use constructive criticism.

lol, i kinda flamed him

but i thought my post also had constructive criticism also

Oh well I get flamed all the time, its human nature lol