DrCool's System Builders Guide - NOV 04

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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
29,130
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Originally posted by: DrCool

now, let me address the biggest flaw in this thinking. once you hit 60FPS, you'll never VISUALLY notice anything over 60FPS, so if you compare 100FPS and 60FPS, you wouldn't even know it, unless the screen was actually displaying the current FPS. So if you system is running a game at 60FPS, it doesn't affect your game performance, or in any way inhibit your ability to play said game.
Your assertion about 60fps is incorrect and has been disproved by the U.S. Air Force among others. Have a look here Text Futhermore you fail to take into consideration that while 60fps may be the average it is when it drops well below that average that game play is effected. I have seen games average 60fps due to high peak frame rates but drop below 20 at times=not good for the gaming experience when the minimum FPS occurs, and that often happens to be during the heaviest action when you need smooth play.

so, an AMD Athlon XP 3000+, when using the same VIDEO card, will not show any VISUAL difference from an AMD ATHLON 64 FX 53..
Incomplete answer and therefore a incorrect assertion here as well this conclusion contradicts yours' Minimum fps experienced during game play that enter the equation when AI, audio subsystem, and other CPU loading factors that benchmarks don't replicate must be taken into consideration. The XP 3000+ will have substantially lower minimum fps in some titles and that can greatly effect what you experience visually. Once again, average FPS doesn't tell the whole story and in game fps can vary significantly from time demo and built-in game benchmarks. Unfortunately Tom's doesn't give different CPUs results with the FRAPS benchies he uses

lets do the same fallacy debunking about VIDEO CARDS, here is the often referred to benchmark on why the 6800 ULTRA is the 'fastest':
http://graphics.tomshardware.c...004/vga_charts-07.html

again the nvidia GeForce 6800 ULTRA goes for about $590 RETAIL, while the GeForce FX 5200 goes for about $65 RETAIL. That would make the 6800 Ultra 9x the cost of the FX 5200.

how the numbers compare: the GeForce 6800 Ultra scores a 77.5 FPS, while the FX 5200 scores 11.9 FPS, thats about a 7x performance increase, which comes extremly close to the 9x price difference.
You can compare the 2x performance difference between the CPUs to the 7x performance difference between the vid cards and how they stack up from a price-to-performance perspective all you like. However, since everyone here knows the FX is a poor value, and there is far better value to be found in the A64 line-up and overclocking can make it a truly tremendous value, your comparison isn't very compelling IMO.

BTW, putting a FX5200 into any configuration of any price range won't help your credibility with the membership here. It is considered one of the worst vid cards and there are superior offerings easily obtainable in its price range. Particularly since many of the people who would read your guide read hot deals and fs/ft forums too



so what do the FACTS tell us.. that PROCESSOR makes little difference when it comes to gaming (when we are talking about CURRENT processors), while the VIDEO CARD itself, makes a HUGE difference.
Once again, [ H ] shows that to be inaccurate, the CPU can be a massive bottleneck in real world gaming where the aforementioned factors can drastically impact game play. While the A64 3000+ is a great compromise compared to the FX, the 2000+ metioned earlier is just a ludicrous comparison in that the FX sux as a value and your comparison doesn't account for the minimum fps differences or in-game impact on the CPU.[/b]


now, which combo should you go with.. the combo that offers the BEST price to PERFORMANCE ratio.. which in this case, looks like a AMD Athlon XP 3000+ paired with a GeForce 6800 (non ultra).
Since the GT and LE are also non ultras it is good to be specific since not everyone will refer to your guide. I agree there is very good bang-for-buck with that combo though
PLEASE do not continue to spread ignorance, and instead do some research before you spout off.
Pot meet kettle. Now, I mean this as constructive criticism and your efforts are commendable. However, the execution is lacking and unpopular based on feedback, so that should be enough for you to realize that you are the one who needs to do more research before undertaking such a big project. Particularly one that has been IMO, far better covered by another member already.
 

DGath

Senior member
Jul 5, 2003
417
0
0
Originally posted by: DrCool
PLEASE do not continue to spread ignorance, and instead do some research before you spout off.

:roll:

I'm not even going to try to talk sense in to you. All I'll say is look back through all your recomended system builds and see how many people agree with you, and how many disagree, and tell me then who needs to do research and who spreads ignorance.

"Alright, so you want me to build you a budget system, well we'll start with this $41 keyboard."

??? It's of course all opinion, but I don't think you'll find many people on here that agree with you that a budget system needs a $41 keyboard. Lifetime warranty? I'll find you $5 keyboards that you might have to replace every 10 years.
 

Subhuman25

Senior member
Aug 22, 2004
370
0
0
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Originally posted by: Subhuman25
Are you nuts?

A cutting edge gamers system with only a 6600GT in it and only 512MB of RAM on an Intel P4 3.0 CPU?I'll not even venture with your other choices i.e. case,optical & hard drives and especially the MS wireless mouse.OMFG My current system ran me ~$1800 and runs circles around your proposed solution at a $600 cost penalty.
I needed a good laugh this morning - Thanks

So you don't agree, fine. At least he spent time on a guide for the benfit of the users here...

:|

Hey,anybody can throw together some BS parts and call it a guide.No credit due here since he obviously doesn't have enough computer experience to develop a helpful guide such as the one done on here by JPeyton,wich I don't totally agree with either,but at least he didnt just toss a buncha components together randomly like this BS farce of a guide.
His time was not spent,rather wasted.And furthermore it can only serve to misdirect those that come here seeking sound advise.THis is not what I consider sound advise.

By the way,it's "benefit"
 

Adn4n

Golden Member
Aug 6, 2004
1,043
0
0
$1000 needed for a decent system? I'll build you a Chaintech+Athlon 64 rig, and then we'll talk price limit.
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0
1000 dollars? budget system? man i could build an awesome system with 1000 dollars. you can buy an awesome dell for a 1000 dollars.
 

Lyfer

Diamond Member
May 28, 2003
5,842
2
81
Damn you guys owned him.


And all he wanted to do was share his guide with ya.
 

formulav8

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2000
7,004
522
126
Some of you are pretty sad. The guy is trying to help you and all you did was try to find problems with what he did. You need to grow up and be alittle appreciative of the hard work he put into it.


Jason
 

DrCool

Senior member
Aug 3, 2001
871
0
76
I just wanted to quickly address all the ignorant posts i've just read..

I've been working with computers for the past 10 years.. 90% of the components I recommended, I HAVE USED at one point or another. My recommendations are ALL based on past experience with BRANDS, RMAs, Performance, etc. I've used computers in more ways then you'll ever probably know exsist.

all you supposed 'anandtechers' who've been around for the last year, really DETRACT from this community, and it's sad to see a decline over the past 3 + years i've been a member, and the numerous years i've been reading Anandtech (back when it was just another ENTHUSIASTs site)

DAPUNISHER
I appreciate you showing the 'poor excuse for members' how to post, and display intelligence.
(a rebuttal will be forthcoming )
 

Boonesmi

Lifer
Feb 19, 2001
14,448
1
81
Originally posted by: DrCool
I just wanted to quickly address all the ignorant posts i've just read..

I've been working with computers for the past 10 years.. 90% of the components I recommended, I HAVE USED at one point or another. My recommendations are ALL based on past experience with BRANDS, RMAs, Performance, etc. I've used computers in more ways then you'll ever probably know exsist.

all you supposed 'anandtechers' who've been around for the last year, really DETRACT from this community, and it's sad to see a decline over the past 3 + years i've been a member, and the numerous years i've been reading Anandtech (back when it was just another ENTHUSIASTs site)

DAPUNISHER
I appreciate you showing the 'poor excuse for members' how to post, and display intelligence.
(a rebuttal will be forthcoming )

lol, funny how people who dont agree with you must be ignorant

some of the posts were pretty harsh, but for the most part they were accurate.


but with some work and time you can get it in good shape
 

Mik3y

Banned
Mar 2, 2004
7,089
0
0
Originally posted by: Boonesmi
Originally posted by: DrCool
I just wanted to quickly address all the ignorant posts i've just read..

I've been working with computers for the past 10 years.. 90% of the components I recommended, I HAVE USED at one point or another. My recommendations are ALL based on past experience with BRANDS, RMAs, Performance, etc. I've used computers in more ways then you'll ever probably know exsist.

all you supposed 'anandtechers' who've been around for the last year, really DETRACT from this community, and it's sad to see a decline over the past 3 + years i've been a member, and the numerous years i've been reading Anandtech (back when it was just another ENTHUSIASTs site)

DAPUNISHER
I appreciate you showing the 'poor excuse for members' how to post, and display intelligence.
(a rebuttal will be forthcoming )

lol, funny how people who dont agree with you must be ignorant

some of the posts were pretty harsh, but for the most part they were accurate.


but with some work and time you can get it in good shape

i agree.
 

overst33r

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,762
12
81
A cutting edge gamers system with only a 6600GT in it and only 512MB of RAM on an Intel P4 3.0 CPU?I'll not even venture with your other choices i.e. case,optical & hard drives and especially the MS wireless mouse.OMFG My current system ran me ~$1800 and runs circles around your proposed solution at a $600 cost penalty.

You paid ~$1800 for your system right...i configured the same system not including your DVR, mx-150, and headphones, i got ~2100. Unless you bought a used system be honest about your pricing.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
29,130
23,049
146
Originally posted by: DrCool
DAPUNISHER
I appreciate you showing the 'poor excuse for members' how to post, and display intelligence.
(a rebuttal will be forthcoming )
Looking forward to it Love exchanging ideas and opinions with intelligent people who are willing to engage in constructive dialogue instead of ego driven ranting, raving, and flaming :beer:


 

vladik007

Member
May 18, 2003
70
0
0
I'm sorry but if you have used Computer for 10 years and you learned THIS much ? ( or should i say little )

Comments on PCI-E , 41$ keyboard , 1000 budget system ....... i mean common man , just browse this forum for 20 minutes and you'll know more than anything you've gathered in those TEN years.
 

Bluefront

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2002
1,466
0
0
This entire thread goes to prove it's completely useless on Arandtech forums to try to be helpful. IMHO....it's perfectly ok to disagree with someones conclusions. But in an area where there are no absolutes, it shows total stupidity to claim "my build is better than yours".

Might as well just sit back, waste no unappreciated effort, and laugh at everyone else's problems......
 

imported_NoGodForMe

Senior member
May 3, 2004
452
0
0
Your site isn't coming up now, check your host.

At first I thought it was going to be a computer building guide. More of those would be nice, especially detailed directions on how to OC the current systems like I did.

But of coarse you're going to get flamed if you try to make a user guide on your own. I wouldn't call it being flamed, but a differance of opinion.
 

ZobarStyl

Senior member
Mar 3, 2004
657
0
0
The posts put forth have had a lot of merit, though unfortunately they contained too many flames. I'll focus on your 2500 gaming system just as a constructive attempt.

The most obvious problem I see is that you don't recommend a better GPU in your gamer oriented rigs. Any gaming rig should ideally spend more than x2 on the GPU than the CPU (this has been proven, search for the benches by RussianSensation in the Video forum). The 6800GT for a 2500 dollar system would be slightly more ideal. Pairing a 571 dollar monitor with a system that will (soon) be put to the test as far as graphics are concerned seems a fallacy in my opinion.

Secondly, any gaming system over 1000 bucks needs a gig of ram, but it doesn't necessarily need Ballistix. It makes little sense to buy 512 of RAM but buy the most expensive RAM out there, when a good set of 512x2 would be only a few bucks more and would net much more performance in terms of loading times than the Ballistix's 2-2-2 timings would. And since you recommend a heatsink that will not stand up to overclocks, there's no purpose in having the overclockability of the Ballistix RAM either.

Third, the real winner of Socket 939 is the MSI Neo2 Platinum, weighing in at a scant 129 dollars (50 cheaper than your suggestion). Plus, the NForce3 250 Ultra chipset is much nicer than the KT800, read the frontpage article on AT right now, it talks about how all VIA chipsets have been relegated to "value" systems, and a 180 dollar motherboard isn't that. Edit: you also aren't shopping around too much, that board you price at 180 is 129 on newegg.

Overall, things you got like a 128 dollar PSU and a 300 gig harddrive at 228 will net no gain to gamers versus redistributing those funds to the CPU and GPU; a 200 gig harddrive would be 100 dollars cheaper, that amount over the 6800nu could get you a 6800GT. A Fortron 530W would be a good 50 bucks cheaper, with which you could get a 3200+ CPU vs the 3000+.

Your choices are not necessarily bad, but most people are right in saying that for the exact same price shipped, you could create a much nicer 'gaming' rig. Keep working on it.
 

Subhuman25

Senior member
Aug 22, 2004
370
0
0
Originally posted by: mariok2006
A cutting edge gamers system with only a 6600GT in it and only 512MB of RAM on an Intel P4 3.0 CPU?I'll not even venture with your other choices i.e. case,optical & hard drives and especially the MS wireless mouse.OMFG My current system ran me ~$1800 and runs circles around your proposed solution at a $600 cost penalty.

You paid ~$1800 for your system right...i configured the same system not including your DVR, mx-150, and headphones, i got ~2100. Unless you bought a used system be honest about your pricing.

Hey Schmuck ,
You wanna accuse me of lying about the price I pid for MY system?Idiot.

First of all you have no fkn what all I built and what I carried over from my prior set-up.
Second you chose to put together parts you ASSUMED I bought.

Thirdly you have no fkn clue WHERE I bought my system.

And lastly you have no fkn clue WHEN I bought my system.

So you can take your accusative post and shove it you know where.Call me a liar when you have no fkn clue ...... schmuck.
 

Mik3y

Banned
Mar 2, 2004
7,089
0
0
Originally posted by: Subhuman25
Originally posted by: mariok2006
A cutting edge gamers system with only a 6600GT in it and only 512MB of RAM on an Intel P4 3.0 CPU?I'll not even venture with your other choices i.e. case,optical & hard drives and especially the MS wireless mouse.OMFG My current system ran me ~$1800 and runs circles around your proposed solution at a $600 cost penalty.

You paid ~$1800 for your system right...i configured the same system not including your DVR, mx-150, and headphones, i got ~2100. Unless you bought a used system be honest about your pricing.

Hey Schmuck ,
You wanna accuse me of lying about the price I pid for MY system?Idiot.

First of all you have no fkn what all I built and what I carried over from my prior set-up.
Second you chose to put together parts you ASSUMED I bought.

Thirdly you have no fkn clue WHERE I bought my system.

And lastly you have no fkn clue WHEN I bought my system.

So you can take your accusative post and shove it you know where.Call me a liar when you have no fkn clue ...... schmuck.

fight the power! :beer:
 

DrCool

Senior member
Aug 3, 2001
871
0
76
Originally posted by: Subhuman25

Hey Schmuck ,
You wanna accuse me of lying about the price I pid for MY system?Idiot.

wow, you sure showed him.. :roll:

thanks for showing your true colors, and limited vocabulary.

you just proved his point, you DID NOT build that system for $1800 FROM SCRATCH.
 

Subhuman25

Senior member
Aug 22, 2004
370
0
0
Well you all knowing fella , my credit card recipt proves different.Now what did you have to show for it?
And of course you know where and when and what all I bought too dontcha.
'nuff said. Obviously you are a very very clueless one and my guess would be you just got into computing a couple months ago and reada forum or 2 and now you think you're all that and a bag of chips.
Your guide proves that fact.

And if you really feel smart today you can go price this,namely what I bought and built x >2 months ago,all bought from NewEgg.


Antec SLK-3700BQE
Antec NeoPower 480
MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum
AMD64 3500
Corsair XMS 3200XLPT 2-2-2-5 1T
Seagate Barracuda 200GB 7,200 SATA
Pioneer DVR-108
eVGA 6800GT
Soundblaster Audigy2 ZS
Microsoft WinXP SP2
MS Natural Multimedia Keyboard
Logitech MX-510

Remember I bought this all x >2 months ago,so price it as such (probably realizing you're a schmuck by now eh,since prices have changed cosiderably on some of those items.)You might wanna use this as reference LMAO
Billing Information Shipping Information
Name XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Company Company
Address XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
City XXXXXXXXXXX
State WA State WA
Zip Code 98498 Zip Code 98498
Credit Card Type Mastercard Nighttime Telephone # 253-XXXXXXXX
Your Customer ID XXXXXXXXX Day Telephone # 253-XXXXXXX
Shipping Method FedEx Express Saver Invoice Date 9/27/2004 2:30:56 PM
Item Description Quantity Unit Price Extended Price
11-129-140 CASE ANTEC|SLK3700-BQE BK 350W RET
(Serial#: 11-129-140/0) 1 $89.50 $89.50
13-130-468 MB K8N NEO2 PLATINUM MSI
(Serial#: K0409014744) 1 $139.00 $139.00
MSI 626 913 0828

14-130-203 VGA EVGA|GF 6800GT 256MB DDR3 R
(Serial#: 48344004198) 1 $388.00 $388.00
For Tech Support 888/881-EVGA (3842)

17-103-924 POWER SUPPLY ANTEC NEOPOWER480 RTL
(Serial#: 761345244800) 1 $121.45 $121.45
19-103-463 CPU AMD 64 |3500+ ATHLON 64 939 RT
(Serial#: 1111284G40086) 1 $347.00 $347.00
For Retail AMD processor, please call 408 749-3060 for service after first 30 days. For OEM AMD processor, we will service for 30 days only. Please verify the Processor matches your order Prior To installation. IMPORTANT: Always pack your CPU well for return. We will refuse your RMA if we received it as DAMAGED!

20-145-523 DUAL DDR 1GB|PC3200XLPT CORSAIR RT
(Serial#: 0BZSDV0200000BW) 1 $275.00 $275.00
21-103-203 FD 1.44MB|SAMSUG SFD-321B/LBL1 OEM
(Serial#: FBT5P5FQ8002412) 1 $8.25 $8.25
22-148-033 HD 200GB| SEAGATE 7200 ST3200822AS%
(Serial#: 3LJ2BNZH) 1 $129.50 $129.50
This item is serviced by the SeaGate. Please call 800 -732-4283 for service.

23-109-116 KB MS|NATURAL MULTIMEDIA PS2 OEM%
(Serial#: 805529036932) 1 $22.00 $22.00
Please Note CD keys are listed on the outside of the plastic wrap accompanying your product.

26-104-151 MOUSE LOGITECH|MX 510 BLUE RETAIL
(Serial#: 097855022363) 1 $43.00 $43.00
27-129-157 DVR|PIONEER DVR-108 DVD+/-RW% BK
(Serial#: 012562716992) 1 $80.00 $80.00
for Pioneer DVD Recording Drives Please go to: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/hs/ for an Important Patch

29-102-162 SOUND BLASTER|AUDIGY 2 ZS PCI RTL
(Serial#: 054651060678) 1 $85.99 $85.99
Creative Labs (800)-998-1000


Subtotal $1,728.69
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Amount Paid $1,765.63




 
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