DrCool's System Builders Guide - NOV 04

[Vee]

Originally posted by: DrCool

Originally posted by: Vee
And being 20 and jumping right into a forum, where hardware have been discussed for ages, and presenting a "System Builders Guide", "your questions, ANSWERED!", is pretty stupid.
Don't worry, when you're young, stupidity is not coupled to IQ and also pretty common. We've all made fools of ourselves, at one time or another.
...

again, the personal attacks are un-necessary. Just want to quickly address the issue of age, as you seem to dwell apon it.

I thought I'd said everything I felt like adding to this thread. However, I see that I may need to elaborate.

I did not intend any personal attack. When someone is unknowingly behaving foolishly, I consider it a kindness to try make him/her aware of it. Human psychology being what it is, that piece of information might be a tough pill to swallow, so I really don't expect to be appreciated. Anyway, about this "dwelling". I also consider your youth a good excuse for your behavior. Almost everyone finds him-/herself doing something pretty stupid at some time, particularly when young. I'd certainly never tell of my own most embarrassing moments. So I do not consider you a moron or idiot, or even naturally stupid. Just youthfully overenthusiastic, inexperienced (so what, nobody is born with it), (I do mean socially inexperienced, but frankly, all your "MUST HAVE" and preoccupation with "stable", "reliable", "proven", reeks of inexperience).

Desktop computers didn't even exsist until 1984 (the year I was born), so the most experience anyone could possibly have with desktop computers is 20 years.

Well, not knowing quite what to do, but being good at math, I found myself punching cards at 19. I think I aimed at getting experience as a FORTRAN programmer, but tasks don't always fit job descriptions (at least not for all genders). Anyway, things started to move rapidly and already the next year, terminals moved in. A couple of more years, and it was possible to have your own computer. And I wanted one. I had a clever guy to help me, explaining things, but I built it myself. Intel 8080, 8inch floppy, CP/M and first 16KB, then later whopping 64KB ram. And guess what? Not only was this not as late as 1984, it was not even as late as in the 80'ies.

I've been working with/on computers since I was 10, so half my life. I can site pleny of examples of young people, kids even, who know much more about computers then their elder counterparts.

- Sure, sure, kiddo, but irrelevant. The fact that you have some experience and competence with PCs, doesn't make you sit on all the right answers.

Just because 'you' don't agree with my statements, doesn't make them inaccurate.

Does anyone here agree with you!? Couldn't you just take this as some kind of litmus test, and just once think: "ooh-ooh, maybe Vee is right, and I really am behaving foolishly, by so surely stating all these things as gospel?"

 

[erikistired]

you guys make me feel young, been feeling like a fossil lately (i work on the weekends at the paintball field, other than my boss i'm like the oldest person there). thanks!

Does anyone here agree with you!? Couldn't you just take this as some kind of litmus test, and just once think: "ooh-ooh, maybe Vee is right, and I really am behaving foolishly, by so surely stating all these things as gospel?"

careful, these types of statements will get you added to the list! you'd be placed among such egomaniac uninformed fools as fisher, DGath, subhuman, Hinton, Tostada, Gothgar, Boonesmi! what would you do?!?

seriously tho, i keep reading gp's sig quote and i realize that i'm just feeding this dude's trollish behavior, but i dunno, i can't seem to help myself. when i was interviewing people a few years ago for a pc tech job i would get guys that came in that could spew hundreds of useless facts about pcs that they'd memorized off the net or whatever, and they'd present me with every cert i could think of. yet i would ask them to make a dos boot disk and they'd shrug their shoulders and tell me they couldn't. that's pretty basic stuff, but these days it seems more trendy to just recite stuff like a parrot then actually get your hands dirty and do things. if drcool spent some time actually trying out the things in his guide rather than parrot'ng review sites and throwing together brand names on a whim he might actually figure some of the things he's been told over and over out for himself, and maybe not be so defensive of what he thinks he knows.

 

[GonzoDaGr8]

Well, that's certainly a decent start. I started programming (well, if you could call it that, in BASIC and in Logo) in 3rd grade on a Commodore PET that had a tape drive, so I guess around 9-ish or so. My dad purchased an 8-bit micro around Christmas, then I started doing more BASIC coding at home. I'm sure that there are people here in these boards that started even earlier.

Good god, I remember programming Apple IIe in '83-'84 in Apple's version of BASIC..Man, the good old days when a "floppy" really WAS floppy (5.25")

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: Dr(un)Cool
As I mention in the guide, a stable and reliable budget system CAN NOT be made without spending about $1000 (for a COMPLETE system), or $658 without a keyboard, mouse, or monitor.

For one, a budget building is not going to want to spen 348 dollars on a monitor/kb/mouse

try, 150$

furthermore 658 complete system, okay, all off the top of my head


Chaintech vnf3 - 75
Sempron 3100(retail) - 120
Radeon 9550(probably overkill for budget) - 90
Antec Case w/350 psu - 55
Corsair 512 3200 - 75
Floppy - 10
CDRW(NEC Lite on, etc) - 45
WD 80g SE - 65
XP home - 80

there, 615 bucks, and I am sure everyone will agree that this will far outperform either of your budget configs for less than you said was possible

 

[imported_Hinton]

Gothgar:

IMHO the floppy could be ditched, whereas a DVDburner should be standard in any system.

Also, for about 10$ more (haven't checked the prices), you should put in a Athlon64 2800+ (be aware that the Semprons rating is vs. a Celeron, and the Athlon64s is vs. a P4, so an Athlon64 is actually faster despite the rating). The Sempron doesn't have 64bit extensions, and for 10$ extra, that's something you'd want. 256KB extra l2 cache too ofcourse which makes a difference in games like Doom3.

I've mentioned the floppy thing at Ars, but I'm quite alone with that opinion. Why wont the damn thing die!


Other than that, you have a really nice system for budget users.

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: Hinton
Gothgar:

IMHO the floppy could be ditched, whereas a DVDburner should be standard in any system.

Also, for about 10$ more (haven't checked the prices), you should put in a Athlon64 2800+ (be aware that the Semprons rating is vs. a Celeron, and the Athlon64s is vs. a P4, so an Athlon64 is actually faster despite the rating). The Sempron doesn't have 64bit extensions, and for 10$ extra, that's something you'd want. 256KB extra l2 cache too ofcourse which makes a difference in games like Doom3.

I've mentioned the floppy thing at Ars, but I'm quite alone with that opinion. Why wont the damn thing die!


Other than that, you have a really nice system for budget users.

good point, I took no time researching any of that, just off the top of my head...

I did not realize that the 2800+ had dropped so much in price, a month ago it was still 180 retail version

I guess with the new winchester cores though...

p.s. floppies never die...

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Hinton
Gothgar:

IMHO the floppy could be ditched, whereas a DVDburner should be standard in any system.

Also, for about 10$ more (haven't checked the prices), you should put in a Athlon64 2800+ (be aware that the Semprons rating is vs. a Celeron, and the Athlon64s is vs. a P4, so an Athlon64 is actually faster despite the rating). The Sempron doesn't have 64bit extensions, and for 10$ extra, that's something you'd want. 256KB extra l2 cache too ofcourse which makes a difference in games like Doom3.

I've mentioned the floppy thing at Ars, but I'm quite alone with that opinion. Why wont the damn thing die!


Other than that, you have a really nice system for budget users.

it won't die because in some instances you might still need it. however imho it could go as well, because there are plenty of guides on how to slipstream your sata drivers and i'm sure just as many on doing a bios flash from a bootable cd or some other bootable media. i'm not sure that a dvd burner is required yet on a budget system, i guess it depends on what you expect from you system. even for a general purpose system do you really need to burn dvds? you can back up most info on a cd still, and making 'backups' of your netflix dvds shouldn't be a requirement for a budget system.

 

[JulioX]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Hinton
Gothgar:

IMHO the floppy could be ditched, whereas a DVDburner should be standard in any system.

Also, for about 10$ more (haven't checked the prices), you should put in a Athlon64 2800+ (be aware that the Semprons rating is vs. a Celeron, and the Athlon64s is vs. a P4, so an Athlon64 is actually faster despite the rating). The Sempron doesn't have 64bit extensions, and for 10$ extra, that's something you'd want. 256KB extra l2 cache too ofcourse which makes a difference in games like Doom3.

I've mentioned the floppy thing at Ars, but I'm quite alone with that opinion. Why wont the damn thing die!


Other than that, you have a really nice system for budget users.

it won't die because in some instances you might still need it. however imho it could go as well, because there are plenty of guides on how to slipstream your sata drivers and i'm sure just as many on doing a bios flash from a bootable cd or some other bootable media. i'm not sure that a dvd burner is required yet on a budget system, i guess it depends on what you expect from you system. even for a general purpose system do you really need to burn dvds? you can back up most info on a cd still, and making 'backups' of your netflix dvds shouldn't be a requirement for a budget system.

 

[imported_Hinton]

Fisher:

But arguable a DVD-ROM is a minimum, given that alot of software now comes on DVD (atleast where I live). So if you want to be able backup/copy stuff you're either looking at DVD-ROM+CD-RW or just a DVD-(+)R drive.

IMHO DVD+R drives are so cheap that it's something you'd want to put in.

edit:

I just looked at newegg.com A CD-RW combo drive ( http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=27-190-002&depa=1 ) starts at 34$, whereas a DVD+R drive ( http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=27-154-006&depa=1 ) is 46$.

I own the Nu DDW-081 myself, upgraded it to DDW-082, and frankly it's the best DVD+R burner there's out there (assuming you don't need duallayer). A bare CD-RW drive is probably down at around 25$, but qua the above I don't think it's an option.


Let's skip the floppy, and for just 2$ more get the Nu drive


edit2:

Look at the Rosewill offer at Newegg, you can choose some free items with the drive, including a DVD+R disc! Now that'll be really useful with a drive that can /only/ read DVD's

 

[erikistired]

good point. the only price i've seen recently was on the liteon 8x and 16x dual layer drives. given those prices i would also agree that a dvdrw should be included. in my budget system i spec'd in this thread i wanted to max out gaming performance so i went with a dvdrom, but for a general purpose machine there's no reason not to go dvdrw.

 

[rpmcrash]

thanks for the great threads guys. vee maybe you remember the rainbow or
dax systems . or maybe reddin . way before windows os.

Dr. dork ! maybe you should go to Pc school . or join the army .

p.s A+ FIRST THEN C++

 

[Sniper82]

Didn't read all replies or your reviews but 1gb does make a fairly big difference in the latest games when the detail is cranked up. I went from 1gb to 512mb and had to turn UT2004 world detail and a couple other things down a notch or so just so my game wouldn't delay here and there. Not to mention every time a new map loads it can take 2-5 secs before I can even get started.

Regret downgrading.

 

[zbalat]

Bump for JimRaynor. DaDoctor sucks at leaving Heat too.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

This might qualify for an OOTY!

- M4H

 

[Zebo]

I was 18 once knew way more than I do now

 

[imported_BadKarma]

.

 

[Alistar7]

has Dr.Cool found ANYONE that agrees with his guide???????? Think about it doc......

 

[DGath]

At first I cringed when I saw this thread back on the main page, but then I thought about it and laughed. Any time this thread leaves the first page, it needs to be bumped cause it's just that funny.

 

[ZYFER]

Well the humor I see in it is I started working with computers the same age DrCool did, interesting part is how he is still in the cycle of "know it all". My general experience has been in troubleshooting systems and networking, programming is just not my niche.

Though it is important to stay up-to-date with the latest technologies, I find myself browsing various sites and reading many magazines comparing information and cross-referencing it. All information does point to an AMD64 processor, specifically Athlon for Gaming PCs as they have a huge performence advantage over everything else currently. DDR2?? its not very beneficial at the moment, but later will look better. PCI Express?? the benefits are limited, the best performence you will get with it will be with the Nforce4 boards with SLI, though naturally an expense to buy two good cards.

DrCool, I have seen you making random conclusions, remember, just cause you think you know everything does it make it true, it will help you to snap out of your immature attitude and shape up for life.

 

[Skipholiday]

Up for comedy.

 

[asm0deus]

DrCool is a tool

 

[Mermaidman]

I rate this thread

NEUTRAL

 

[Gumby84]

Thanks for making the last 30 minutes at work go by with a laugh Dr. Cool. You're systems look like something my grandpa would put together and I'm not even sure he knows how to turn a computer on.

 

[zerodeefex]

you suck at the internets. oh wait, I shouldn't say anything otherwise you might give me neutral heat.

edit: and the altair, the first commercial microcomputer was available in 75 I think after being on the cover of Popular Electronics, and the first IBM PC was in 81 with a ~5 MHz 8088 processor, 16KB memory (but you could upgrade it to a bit higher I think), the first rendition didnt even have a floppy drive...

 

[codeyf]

Originally posted by: Mermaidman
I rate this thread

NEUTRAL

:thumbsup: