drive by wire?

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,866
105
106
The key is to develop a system that provides good feedback and feel. If that can be done in an efficient way, I'm all for drive by wire systems.
 

Bartman39

Elite Member | For Sale/Trade
Jul 4, 2000
8,878
51
91
Scary concept... Can you say (I robot)...:whiste:

But is interesting and we have had this type of idea and early tech for years...
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
Mercedes could not get brake by wire to work. I think I would pass on this, at least until other drivers test all the bugs out.
 

sgrinavi

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2007
4,537
0
76
Good enough for fighter jets it's good enough for me - assuming they can get proper feedback to the wheel and brakes
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
We have been steering and accelerating by wire for a long time now.

Our brakes have also been under computer control for a long time now.

Auto transmissions as well.

With the advent of the BUS type networked electrical systems in cars a while ago, almost everything has been under computer control, from the power windows, to the radio, to the climate control, etc. It's almost all on a network and controlled by one of many computers and a network controller.

Even simple things like the reverse lamps and the brake lamps go through a network controller.

For instance, here is how the front fog lamps work on my 2008 Jeep:

FRONT FOG LAMPS

Vehicles equipped with optional front fog lamps include a front fog lamp relay installed in the Integrated Power Module (IPM), and a front fog lamp switch integral to the left (lighting) multi-function switch on the steering column. The front fog lamps have a path to ground at all times through their connection to the headlamp and dash wire harness. The headlamp and dash wire harness has takeouts with eyelet terminals that are secured by ground screws to the front end sheet metal within the engine compartment. The SCM monitors a hard wired multiplex input from the left multi-function switch to determine whether the fog lamps are selected, then sends electronic front fog lamp request messages to the FCM over the CAN data bus.

When the FCM receives a front fog lamp request message it then controls front fog lamp operation by energizing or de-energizing the front fog lamp relay control coil. The FCM also sends the appropriate electronic message to the EMIC to illuminate or extinguish the front fog lamp indicator. When the front fog lamp relay is energized, it provides battery voltage from a fused B(+) fuse in the IPM to the fog lamps through the fog lamp relay output circuit. In vehicles manufactured for domestic markets, the FCM will automatically de-energize the front fog lamp relay any time the headlamp high beams are selected.

The FCM also provides a battery saver (load shedding) feature for the front fog lamps, which will turn these lamps OFF if they are left ON for more than about eight minutes with the ignition switch in the LOCK position. The FCM will also turn OFF the front fog lamps if it detects that system voltage is less than 11.75 volts for more than about 30 seconds, and will return the front fog lamps to normal operation when it detects that system voltage is greater than 13.0 volts for more than about 30 seconds.

Each front fog lamp includes an integral adjustment screw to be used for static aiming of the fog lamp beams.
 

Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,866
3
0
One vote here for no power steering, I like my cars as kart like as possible.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
The key is to develop a system that provides good feedback and feel. If that can be done in an efficient way, I'm all for drive by wire systems.

You won't be feeling what is actually happening though, it would be force feedback like what video games have...
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
Good enough for fighter jets it's good enough for me - assuming they can get proper feedback to the wheel and brakes

They don't need feedback. They fly to through air, and fun is not a consideration. They are killing machines...
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Does not scare me anymore. Pretty much everything is goin this way in a car and it will make the inevitable self-driving car technology easier to implement as well.
 

sgrinavi

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2007
4,537
0
76
sgrinavi said:
Good enough for fighter jets it's good enough for me - assuming they can get proper feedback to the wheel and brakes

They don't need feedback. They fly to through air, and fun is not a consideration. They are killing machines...

2 things -

I mentioned feedback for just that reason

I'm going to bet that flying an F22 is a blast and you get lots and lots of feedback through the seat.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
0
They don't need feedback. They fly to through air, and fun is not a consideration. They are killing machines...

It varies by aircraft but most do have feedback of some sort. It could be as simple as springs or stick shakers to as advanced as the computer controlled q-feel systems.

Planes like the F-16 use a G force to stick weight system for example so the pilots know when they have hit the limit of stick travel so they don't keep pulling harder.
 

tonyfreak215

Senior member
Nov 21, 2008
274
0
76
Meh, I prefer a cable driven gas pedal. There is a input delay on my friends RX-8 and Mazda 3. It drives me nuts.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
0
Meh, I prefer a cable driven gas pedal. There is a input delay on my friends RX-8 and Mazda 3. It drives me nuts.

That has more to do with the tuning than the drive by wire.

Same issue with the Ford Fusions. Computer flash later to configure the throttle positionedal position as 1:1 in all cases fixed that issue. The Mazda's have something like that also.

The computer modifies the response time and the actual position of the throttle to make the car smoother and more efficient etc.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Meh, I prefer a cable driven gas pedal. There is a input delay on my friends RX-8 and Mazda 3. It drives me nuts.
Drive an EV. There is no delay at all, no slop, it's just immediate torque the microsecond you push down on the pedal!
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
Oh, sorry, the motor that turns your wheels broke. But, unlike a normal failed power steering system, you can't even heave on the wheel to turn. Too bad! <CRASH>
 

JMWarren

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2003
1,201
0
0
Boats have used steer, throttle and shift by wire for a number of years.

Baring some early glitches where computers shut down leaving them with zero control, it's worked pretty well!
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
0
Oh, sorry, the motor that turns your wheels broke. But, unlike a normal failed power steering system, you can't even heave on the wheel to turn. Too bad! <CRASH>

You can break a tie rod, ball joint or pop a bushing and have the same thing happen.
 

tonyfreak215

Senior member
Nov 21, 2008
274
0
76
That has more to do with the tuning than the drive by wire.

Same issue with the Ford Fusions. Computer flash later to configure the throttle positionedal position as 1:1 in all cases fixed that issue. The Mazda's have something like that also.

The computer modifies the response time and the actual position of the throttle to make the car smoother and more efficient etc.

Awesome! I didn't know that. I thought it was just a side effect of drive by wire.

Drive an EV. There is no delay at all, no slop, it's just immediate torque the microsecond you push down on the pedal!

I wasn't referring to torque lag. I was referring to throttle response. It makes rev matching/heel toeing a real pain.
 
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