Driving 8 speakers outside

[Syrch]

I currently have an Onkyo TX-NR1007 running a 5.1 setup in my living room. The receiver has a zone 2 and 3. I want to utilize zone three for my outdoor speaker set up. I am looking to put 8 speakers similar to these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=310-045&scqty=5. The speakers are rated 60-120w and my receiver zone three outputs are rated at 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC). I'm wondering if I have enough power coming from the receiver to power these speakers.

Thank you in advance for the advice.

Edit: Sorry here are the specs for the receiver. http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR1007&class=Receiver&p=s

 

[Ross Ridge]

I am looking to put 8 speakers similar to these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=310-045&scqty=5. The speakers are rated 60-120w and my receiver zone three outputs are rated at 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC). I'm wondering if I have enough power coming from the receiver to power these speakers.

No, it's not question of power, it's a question not being able to hook up more than speaker at a time to a given speaker terminal without the risk of damage to the receiver. Hooking up four speakers each to the left and right zone 3 speaker terminals is not at all a good idea.

You're going to need another amplifier if you want to do this right.

 

[vi edit]

Couple things...first zone 3 is probably only powered if you turn off your surround speakers and you'll be running 3.1 for theatre. You can run multiple speakers off a zone with impedence matching volume controls. I have three pairs of in-ceiling running on zone 2 of my RC-180. I wouldn't want to run any more than that out of fear of tripping the amp into protect mode at higher volumes.

With as many pairs as you want you really want a dedicated multichannel amp.

 

[Syrch]

Thank you for the replies guys. Can anyone recommend an amp that will work? Im new to needing a separate amp and really would like some guidance. I don't want to spend anymore than $300 if possible.

On a side note i wouldn't lose channels 4 and 5 vi edit, i would lose channel 9 which im okay with Channel 7 is for zone two if i wanted to but I like the idea of 7.1.

 

[Soundmanred]

If you wire them correctly, you can hook up as many speakers as you wish. As long as the ohm load isn't out of spec for your amplifier, it's not an issue.
If you need seperate controls for each speaker, that's a different matter.

 

[vi edit]

For $300 your options are limited. Pyle is a dodgy brand but I think this is pretty well built:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002UL...4122327&sr=8-5

 

[vi edit]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0013D...4122790&sr=8-1

Thats two channels but you could run 8 speakers off of it. They won't get a ton of power but it's going to be more solid at that load than a receiver.

 

[Syrch]

Could i use an old sony AV receiver i have?

 

[Syrch]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0013D...4122790&sr=8-1

Thats two channels but you could run 8 speakers off of it. They won't get a ton of power but it's going to be more solid at that load than a receiver.

Help me understand how that would work. Its 2 channel 90 watt so i'd have to put 4 speakers per channel im assuming. The receiver i have is 135+135 w per channel. Wouldn't what i have drive more power to them?

 

[vi edit]

If you wire them correctly, you can hook up as many speakers as you wish. As long as the ohm load isn't out of spec for your amplifier, it's not an issue.
If you need seperate controls for each speaker, that's a different matter.

The problem I've run into is volume. I can run three pairs off of zone 2 of my amp (2x100) with impedence matched controls but it just doesn't go that loud. To get things up to "party" levels it'll force the receiver into protect mode.

 

[Syrch]

Im not trying to be a jerk if thats how im coming accross im sorry. I just want to understand what im getting myself into.

Here are the specs for the speakers im looking at: Specifications: *Woofer: 8" polypropylene cone *Tweeter: 1" polycarbonate *Power handling: 60 watts RMS/120 watts max *Impedance: 8 ohms *Frequency response: 42-20,000 Hz *SPL: 87 dB 1W/1m

The receiver stats this:
Input Sensitivity and Impedance 200 mV/47 k-ohms (Line)
2.5 mV/47 k-ohms (Phone MM)

Output Level and Impedance 200 mV/470 ohms

Dynamic Power 320 W (3 ohms, 1 ch)
270 W (4 ohms, 1 ch)
160 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)

Im a numbers guy but i don't know what im looking at

 

[vi edit]

There's rated power and then theres delivered power and the ability to sustsain it. Onkyo is pretty good but it's still a multitasking amp. A purpose built dedicated amp will be more stable under load and likely deliver advertised power.

 

[Syrch]

There's rated power and then theres delivered power and the ability to sustsain it. Onkyo is pretty good but it's still a multitasking amp. A purpose built dedicated amp will be more stable under load and likely deliver advertised power.

That makes sense, thank you

With the numbers i showed you for the speakers how do i know what to look for in amps?

 

[vi edit]

One thing that hurts with thos speakers is the 87db efficiency. That's a pretty low sensitivity and will need more juice to drive at louder volumes.

You can grab 4 impedence matching controls and run four speakers off each one and then hook them up to your Onkyo and try it.
http://www.htd.com/Products/Volume-Controls/rotary-volume-control

You can get outdoor ones at monoprice for around $30.

 

[Syrch]

One thing that hurts with thos speakers is the 87db efficiency. That's a pretty low sensitivity and will need more juice to drive at louder volumes.

You can grab 4 impedence matching controls and run four speakers off each one and then hook them up to your Onkyo and try it.
http://www.htd.com/Products/Volume-Controls/rotary-volume-control

You can get outdoor ones at monoprice for around $30.

VI Edit I really want to thank you for the time you have taken to explain this to me. After your last post you got my wheels spinning. I decided to go to Frys Electronics and look at amplifiers. I started to talk to an associate that actually had some pretty good knowledge on the subject and he recommended I try Monster Cables SS-6. Now I am completely against monster cable but I listened to what he had to say. He showed me one he had set up in the show room which was hooked up to a weaker A/V receiver than mine and it pushed 6 Pair of speakers surprisingly nicely. I went to Amazon and they have the switcher for $60 which they price matched from $130. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it as it seems to be very similar to the impedance controls you mentioned.

Heres the link.
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1187
http://www.amazon.com/Monster-SS-6-S.../ref=de_a_smtd

I know i can't have this placed outside but my thought it this. I can hook this to my AV Receiver inside and then put volume control on each channel outside.

 

[vi edit]

Good idea, I forgot about those. The monster ones use proprietary connectors so keep that in mind. Also know that your volume could be much lower than what you demoed depending on how efficient the speakers were. Plus they were indoors and not outside. Not sure how loud you need/want.

 

[alcoholbob]

The more speakers you run the easier it is to get more volume for your buck (i.e., mirrored content like All Channel Stereo), provided these are all easy to drive 8 ohm speakers with no or little impedance dips.

For example, 8 speakers with 1 W each will hit a target decibel level easier than trying to accomplish the same thing with 1 speaker; it's going to take a lot more than 8 watts. Again, provided all of these are easy to drive speakers.

This is expressly why movie theaters use row, after row, after row of speakers; you can get more volume out of the same power input.

 

[Smoove910]

Would it be possible to wire the speakers in series rather than parallel to the receiver? This would lessen the impedance if wired correctly.

 

[alcoholbob]

I don't think you want to lessen impedance. Lower impedance means increases the amperage requirement. Onkyos also have a power limiter if it detects a low impedance load.

 

[vi edit]

Would it be possible to wire the speakers in series rather than parallel to the receiver? This would lessen the impedance if wired correctly.

I think that for $60 + wiring just doing home runs back to a speaker selector would be a lot easier to keep track of. Plus you could get independent volume control that way.

 

[Smoove910]

I think that for $60 + wiring just doing home runs back to a speaker selector would be a lot easier to keep track of. Plus you could get independent volume control that way.

Agreed... the more I thought about it, the more I think there would be a volume issue running in series.

 

[Modelworks]

This is really easy to do.
You will need a meter that can read ohms , anything will do , analog or digital.

Measure the ohms on each speaker you want to connect and write it down.
If they are all the same then it gets really easy.

For 4x 8ohm speakers on one channel
speaker 1 + to amp + , - to speaker 2 +
speaker 2 + to speaker 1 - , - to amp -
speaker 3 + to amp +, - to speaker 4 +
speaker 4 + to speaker 3 -, - to amp -
8ohms + 8ohms = 16 ohms
16 ohms in parallel = 8 ohms seen by the amp.
As far as the amp is concerned only one 8 ohm speaker is connected.



There are all sorts of ways you can add more speakers to amps , just keep the impedance the same and the amp will not care. Use setups like the above where you mix parallel and series wiring to keep it the same.


16 speakers on one channel


Each row = 32 ohms
32 ohms in parallel = 32 /4 = 8 ohms seen by amp

 

[Smoove910]

This is really easy to do.

Agreed, it's easy to do, but you will lose volume with the more speakers you add. Granted you will increase your cone area, but your power decreases exponentially with each driver in the mix.

 

[Modelworks]

Agreed, it's easy to do, but you will lose volume with the more speakers you add. Granted you will increase your cone area, but your power decreases exponentially with each driver in the mix.

I wouldn't say lose, it is just spread across more speakers.

 

[thomsbrain]

If you wire them correctly, you can hook up as many speakers as you wish. As long as the ohm load isn't out of spec for your amplifier, it's not an issue.
If you need seperate controls for each speaker, that's a different matter.

This. 8 speakers is actually perfect. For each channel, wire a pair of speakers in series, then another pair in series, then plug both pairs into the receiver's output in parallel. Do the same for the other channel. The load on the receiver will be exactly the same as if you only had one stereo pair. Total volume produced by the receiver will be exactly the same as if you only had one stereo pair, it's just that each individual speaker will have 1/4 the work to do to produce that volume. And 135 watts/channel should produce plenty of volume.