DRM Petition

[Red Irish]

Hi folks,

once you have read the petition presented below, if you agree with the series of demands and requests, please sign it.



Petition Addressed to the Companies Employing DRM on Games

We, the users of the Anandtech forum, as a collective body, hereby undersign the following petition:

Demands

1) Information relating to the type of DRM employed on a given game must be made public, both on the packaging of any physical copies of the game and on the company?s web site.

2) Efforts must be made to ensure that DRM does not negatively interact with other software or hardware employed by the customer. We should never be forced to uninstall other applications in order to play the game in question. Any negative interactions with other components within our systems or software installed on our systems must be addressed by the company employing the DRM in question.

3) Where games are sold online, in the manner of Valve?s Steam, the company must issue a legally binding statement wherein they undertake to provide all users with full access to the games they have purchased in the event of the company being sold or closing down. Statements of intention are not sufficient.

4) Where activation limits are imposed, the company must post information relating to the release of any future revoke tools from the outset. Moreover, the company must issue a legally binding statement wherein they undertake to provide all users with revoke tools in the event of the company being sold or closing down. Statements of intention are not sufficient.

5) When a game is uninstalled, all elements of the security must be removed along with the game and no traces should be left on the customer's system. Removal tools, where applicable, must be included along with the game.


Requests

1) Where games are sold online, in the manner of Valve?s Steam, all efforts should be taken to sell such games at a lower price, given that no physical copy exists and resale is prevented. In addition, methods to enable users to sell their rights of access to a given game to another user should be considered.

2) Where subsequent budget releases of older games are issued, the removal of all DRM should be considered.

3) Where activation limits are imposed, they should be removed at a given point subsequent to the initial release of the game, thereby enabling customers to resell their games.

Locked by OP's request
-Schadenfroh (AT Mod)

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Yeah, its never like you really bought it. All you bought is permanent access to it.

EDIT: it's sorta like food, you buy it but can't return it or sell it after you use it....

 

[Red Irish]

If you are annoyed by DRM and the manner in which it is being employed, please sign the petition.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
Yeah, its never like you really bought it. All you bought is permanent access to it.

EDIT: it's sorta like food, you buy it but can't return it or sell it after you use it....

Well you can but itll be total shit so pretty much useless to everyone... a lot like these DRM games indeed... :laugh:

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Maximilian

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
Yeah, its never like you really bought it. All you bought is permanent access to it.

EDIT: it's sorta like food, you buy it but can't return it or sell it after you use it....

Well you can but itll be total shit so pretty much useless to everyone... a lot like these DRM games indeed... :laugh:

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Signed. We definitely need more transparency from these companies on DRM issues.

I would think that voting would bump the thread, but apparently it doesn't.

 

[Martimus]

That was amazingly well written, and actually reasonable. I expected a totally unreasonable stance on DRM to be written in the petition when I opened this, but after reading it I liked it enough that I signed it.

 

[Red Irish]

Thanks CoinOperated.

Oh well, I suppose we could request that anyone who has signed leaves a small post, as you have done. I'm not expecting a lot of response to this, but your live in hope....

Have a good one

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Martimus
That was amazingly well written, and actually reasonable. I expected a totally unreasonable stance on DRM to be written in the petition when I opened this, but after reading it I liked it enough that I signed it.

Thank you. The demands and requests do not reflect my own views: I'm much more extreme when it comes to DRM. However, I wanted to write something that we could all feel happy about signing, irrespective of our personal stances on DRM, whilst making realistic demands on the companies. I hope that I have accomplished that.

My aim is simply to improve the situation for all pc gamers and ensure that our rights are protected.

Glad you signed

 

[rivan]

Signed.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: rivan
Signed.

Cheers

 

[zebano]

signed. Very reasonable.

 

[chizow]

All demands and requests and no concessions? While I don't disagree with much of what is written above, you can't seriously expect anything if you're unwilling to give in return, I'd add the following as concessions, as there's clearly not going to be any requests or demands granted without some guidelines and rules for conduct:

• Concessions
  1) Agree not to condone or engage in any form of Software Piracy, Electronic Theft, or Copyright Infringement as defined by applicable laws and the relevant EULA for any reason or justification.
  
  2) Agree not to knowingly spread or perpetuate misinformation or lies about DRM, and in cases where inaccurate statements were made, agree to retract or acknowledge any previous statements as incorrect or false, made unknowingly or not.

You can just copy and paste it as is, don't even need to give me "credit", I don't mind.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: zebano
signed. Very reasonable.

Thanks

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: chizow
All demands and requests and no concessions? While I don't disagree with much of what is written above, you can't seriously expect anything if you're unwilling to give in return, I'd add the following as concessions, as there's clearly not going to be any requests or demands granted without some guidelines and rules for conduct:

• Concessions
  1) Agree not to condone or engage in any form of Software Piracy, Electronic Theft, or Copyright Infringement as defined by applicable laws and the relevant EULA for any reason or justification.
  
  2) Agree not to knowingly spread or perpetuate misinformation or lies about DRM, and in cases where inaccurate statements were made, agree to retract or acknowledge any previous statements as incorrect or false, made unknowingly or not.

You can just copy and paste it as is, don't even need to give me "credit", I don't mind.

I would be more than willing to paste in what you have written, but that would not be fair to anyone who has read and signed before alterations were made. I asked for input from Securom apologists on the "Securom on Games" thread with regards to a poll. As you didn't reply, I thought I'd press on anyway. Incidentally, we do give something in return: our hard earned money. Moreover, if the companies abide by the requests and demands above, there should be little need for liars and spreaders of misinformation, such as myself, to remain active. So your fears in that regard are unfounded.

I hope you have signed (wasn't I ignoring you anyway)

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
I would be more than willing to paste in what you have written, but that would not be fair to anyone who has read and signed before alterations were made. I asked for input from Securom apologists on the "Securom on Games" thread with regards to a poll. As you didn't reply, I thought I'd press on anyway. Incidentally, we do give something in return: our hard earned money. Moreover, if the companies abide by the requests and demands above, there should be little need for liars and spreaders of misinformation, such as myself, to remain active. So your fears in that regard are unfounded.

I hope you have signed (wasn't I ignoring you anyway)

Nah, you could just add it as an Addendum noting the number of votes prior to this reply, date and time signifying who had agreed or not. But its obvious you're not really interested in any such concessions giving they were omitted in the first place.

I stopped bothering to read the SecuROM in Games thread you started once it became clearly obvious you were unwilling to revise the misinformation in your OP, even when it was clearly proven as such.

You and people like you haven't returned anything of your hard earned money, as you've repeatedly admitted you haven't purchased a game with these forms of activation DRM recently. Its clearly obvious you're complaining about DRM you have no experience with that doesn't impact you or your gaming experience as you openly claim it deters you from purchasing titles with this kind of DRM. It can't be both ways, you can't claim both in this case.

The fundamental point you and people like you continually fail to understand is that DRM exists only to deter piracy, so if there was an agreement not to pirate, there would not be any need for DRM.

And of course I haven't signed, as I don't consider any demands reasonable given the root cause of DRM isn't addressed at all.

 

[Red Irish]

chizow, sign it now, you ass, and don't attempt to derail this thread.

If any of the posters who consented to voting before this addendum was inserted, now wish to retract their vote, please make yourselves heard. For the record, 15 votes were registered before I inserted these vital paragraphs.

 

[Red Irish]

No, on second thoughts, I preferred it without the addendum: removed. The companies need to win back my trust as a client. They have been using piracy as a pretext to attack the second-hand market: this is a series of reasonable and logical demands without any concessions and should not be linked to other posts made elsewhere. So don't bother signing chizow if you feel that it goes against your principles.

 

[Red Irish]

chizow, back again. Other posters and I feel that there is no problem with the first point of your addendum.


However, the second point is irrelevant and open to too much subjective analysis. You see, we both accuse each other of spreading misinformation, see what I mean? So the first point goes back in, but the second one remains out. In any event, its something that you will undoubtedly bring up on any other thread in which you participate. This is a petition, not a debate.

So once again: sign it now you ass.

 

[tk149]

I like it! If SecuROM actually agreed to this, I might even start buying SecuROM games again.

I'll sign.

I did notice that there is no mention of the use of DRM to kill secondary market sales...but one battle at a time.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: tk149
I like it! If SecuROM actually agreed to this, I might even start buying SecuROM games again.

I'll sign.

I did notice that there is no mention of the use of DRM to kill secondary market sales...but one battle at a time.

Yes, I couldn't address every issue or start analysing the issues surrounding DRM: this is neither the time or place. What we have is a simple series of demands that I feel no reasonable person could refuse to sign.

Thanks for signing

 

[Red Irish]

Have a good weekend folks and please, keep signing.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Personally, I feel that chizow's addendum is irrelevant and we need make no such concessions, but the wordage you've added is harmless enough I suppose. My only suggestion is to omit reference to EULAs, as they are not universally enforceable and may contain unreasonable demands of the consumer, including the revocation of rights that may even be pertinent to our arguments with DRM. To obey a law is one thing; an EULA, another.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Personally, I feel that chizow's addendum is irrelevant and we need make no such concessions, but the wordage you've added is harmless enough I suppose. My only suggestion is to omit reference to EULAs, as they are not universally enforceable and may contain unreasonable demands of the consumer, including the revocation of rights that may even be pertinent to our arguments with DRM. To obey a law is one thing; an EULA, another.

Fixed

 

[mindcycle]

Signed.

Part 2 of chizow's addendum should actually be on the requests side as most companies are guilty of this.

2) Agree not to knowingly spread or perpetuate misinformation or lies about DRM, and in cases where inaccurate statements were made, agree to retract or acknowledge any previous statements as incorrect or false, made unknowingly or not.

Part one is legitimate though minus the part about the EULA as CoinOperatedBoy mentioned. I do agree with him on that one.