Dropped into the MS store yesterday

EvilYoda

Lifer
Apr 1, 2001
21,200
9
81
I've been away for a while so I totally forgot that my local mall opened up a MS store - popped in there to look at the 8" tablets. I really like the form factor and the fact that I can hold it in one hand without having to grip an edge. The just-announced ASUS 8" with the included digitizer/stylus sounds perfect.

I just wanted to confirm: all that Windows RT bullshit is behind us now, right? These 8" tablets run a full-blown 8.1 OS that I can install whatever normal small programs I usually use? I really only plan on streaming videos, watching downloaded shows/movies, reading comics (have a Kindle for books), and surfing the web. The Office capabilities will come in handy too, but not very often.

I have an Android phone and MBP 13", but for some reason I want to try a Windows product. For $300, that's not too bad.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
You have to double check, but most are now running full versions of Windows and not RT.

I think just about everyone except Microsoft themselves has given up on RT.
 

crashtestdummy

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,893
0
0
There are still RT-based tablets out there. If it has an Intel or AMD chip, it's Windows 8.1, full on.
 

EvilYoda

Lifer
Apr 1, 2001
21,200
9
81
Yeah, I knew the Surface line was Pro = real Windows. Anything with an ARM chip is RT.

So with these quad-core Atom chips, they should all be full-blown Windows. Good.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
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Pretty much only Microsoft and Nokia are making RT devices. Other manufactures gave up on it. So fortunately all the 8 inch tablets are Windows x86.

However I think a 7 inch Windows RT tablet on ARM wouldn't be so terrible. Something that would be small and light like a Nexus 7 just for content consumption.

Yeah, the ASUS tablet looks pretty sweet. I have the Dell Venue 8 Pro and I really enjoy it, but am disappointed with the stylus fiasco. Apparently the Dell pen has been removed from the website, not good.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Yeah, I knew the Surface line was Pro = real Windows. Anything with an ARM chip is RT.

So with these quad-core Atom chips, they should all be full-blown Windows. Good.

This. If its powered by an x86 chip, its full Windows. If its an ARM CPU, its RT. Microsoft needs RT, or an ARM compatible version of Windows, so long as ARM is where the growth is.
 

EvilYoda

Lifer
Apr 1, 2001
21,200
9
81
I wonder how Steam and basic platform/puzzle games will work...TripleThreadTLT, any comments?
 
Jan 6, 2013
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I loaded up Steam. Played Civ 5 for a bit. It got really hot in one corner, and I'm not sure how well it would work once you get further into the game and it gets more cpu intensive.

Played a few puzzle type games from the windows store they all seemed just fine.

Loaded up Hearthstone as well and it works great. I specifically signed up for the beta on that when I got the venue 8.

As Ravynmagi said the stylus thing is my only gripe. I had a Note 10.1 and was looking forward to the stylus on this. I heard its much better than at launch but now you can't buy it For that reason alone I'm debating returning it and waiting for the Asus. I'm torn though the reason I got the dell over the Assu T100 was the build quality seemed superior. I don't really want some cheap feeling tablet.
 

paperwastage

Golden Member
May 25, 2010
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EvilYoda

Lifer
Apr 1, 2001
21,200
9
81
I was thinking more along the lines of simpler Steam/indie games, like Braid, Limbo, Bastion, etc. Looks like those won't be an issue...just have to figure out the controller situation.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
I was thinking more along the lines of simpler Steam/indie games, like Braid, Limbo, Bastion, etc. Looks like those won't be an issue...just have to figure out the controller situation.

I'm not sure if this helps or not, but one of the reviews I watched for the Dell Venue Pro 8 showed the reviewer plugging in an Xbox 360 controller and using that to game with.

I am waiting on the Asus unit to be released to make a final choice but my next tablet will be a Windows 8.1 model for sure.
 
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Demo24

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
8,357
9
81
I was thinking more along the lines of simpler Steam/indie games, like Braid, Limbo, Bastion, etc. Looks like those won't be an issue...just have to figure out the controller situation.

Those would work. I have an sp2, biggest issue I found was how to control it. Pen input sends most games spinning. Civ5 actually worked rather well as they updated the game to support touch, so if you start it in that mode you can do the whole game without having to use something else for input. No idea how well that runs on bay trail though.
 

Kelvinz

Member
Dec 7, 2013
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I'm not sure if this helps or not, but one of the reviews I watched for the Dell Venue Pro 8 showed the reviewer plugging in an Xbox 360 controller and using that to game with.

I am waiting on the Asus unit to be released to make a final choice but my next tablet will be a Windows 8.1 model for sure.

Then you should get the Surface Pro 2.

Seriously that tablet is so versatile.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
Those would work. I have an sp2, biggest issue I found was how to control it. Pen input sends most games spinning. Civ5 actually worked rather well as they updated the game to support touch, so if you start it in that mode you can do the whole game without having to use something else for input. No idea how well that runs on bay trail though.

Bay trail platforms need more memory that is not currently supported last I checked. Otherwise, one will find the need to close any desktop applications except the game, and to have Modern apps to auto suspend and sleep or be manually closed.

The beauty of the Surface Pro 2 (and other like minded device hybrids) is the USB port. If touch or pen is not as ideal (some cases it isn't anyways) then a traditional pointing device is but a plug and play away for most devices.

In my case, a Logitech unifying receiver for the M570 is always parked for trackball pointing. It is perfect in anywhere gaming and computing alongside the hybrid that is the Surface Pro 2 because there is no need for a flat area to slide things around. Some cases, I might pull out an Xbox 360 controller. I wish there is a Xbox controller cradle, but that is asking a bit much for little market demand.

But I thought about it some more and figured Starcraft 2 of all things would be best if converted for a touch PC device. The menus are driven to be in a touch friendly manner anyways in terms of unit control. Touch, eliminates the time for mouse drag, enabling even more reaction and action time to the field in augmenting tactics. Multitouch fingering would give you more than just left and right click, but a middle click and perhaps a fourth and fifth mouse button mapping.

Most games do not recognize the pen hover, pen input, or touch correctly due to not implementing the additional exceptions of API for the pen or touch. But what do you expect for software that was not specifically designed to take advantage of future input options when it was released?

As far as the OP is concerned, and anyone else for that matter, looking into a full Windows 8.1 tablet/hybrid then for desktop navigation (hence why you are looking into the full Windows 8.1 to begin with) I will say this again...

Google or search for TouchMousePointer, install it, and navigate happlily on your touchscreen (now doubling as a fine laptop trackpad). Make sure it is running on full screen mode, hiding any UI elements and allowing you to fully see the desktop. Settings allow for a two button and scroll wheel + button mouse input.

TouchMousePointer, will make your desktop experience on smaller full Windows 8 devices much better. Your brain will have to adjust to the duality between Modern and Desktop still however, but work that mind!
 

EvilYoda

Lifer
Apr 1, 2001
21,200
9
81
Looking at the Lenovo Thinkpad 8 that was announced at CES...looks pretty damn good.

I'm a little fuzzy on the whole "no digitizer = no good" thing...for someone like me that will never be taking notes on the tablet, should I care about the lack of a digitizer and pen? The Thinkpad costs more but the construction looks better and I like the higher resolution and expandable memory.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Looking at the Lenovo Thinkpad 8 that was announced at CES...looks pretty damn good.

I'm a little fuzzy on the whole "no digitizer = no good" thing...for someone like me that will never be taking notes on the tablet, should I care about the lack of a digitizer and pen? The Thinkpad costs more but the construction looks better and I like the higher resolution and expandable memory.

One thing that I think the pen would also be useful for is hitting the menus and window controls when you are in the classic desktop. I haven't played with a 8" Windows tablet yet but I have used a 10" model. Trying to use "classic" Windows programs using a finger for navigation is frustrating to say the least. I think a pen would make things much easier.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Then you should get the Surface Pro 2.

Seriously that tablet is so versatile.

For sure that is a nice device. However, I'm not looking for a laptop replacement really, just a tablet. I can't stand to use an iPad anymore since iOS7 and I would like to try something new anyhow. I can swallow $299 for such a device but I can't justify the price of a Surface Pro.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
One thing that I think the pen would also be useful for is hitting the menus and window controls when you are in the classic desktop. I haven't played with a 8" Windows tablet yet but I have used a 10" model. Trying to use "classic" Windows programs using a finger for navigation is frustrating to say the least. I think a pen would make things much easier.

Using the free desktop program TouchMousePointer, negates the need of a stylus for desktop navigation. I however, would want a built in, on screen, digitizer for drawing, notes, and hand diagramming.
 

EvilYoda

Lifer
Apr 1, 2001
21,200
9
81
I looked into TouchMousePointer...I guess I'll have to use it on a tablet to really understand the appeal.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
I looked into TouchMousePointer...I guess I'll have to use it on a tablet to really understand the appeal.

A best way to describe it, touchscreen turned into a laptop multitouch trackpad (that is more responsive than the trackpad on my Type Cover 2 to boot in mouse clicking - the left and right click areas on that trackpad is way too small).

Also of note, I use this on occasion for using Steam. Steam is the only windowed application that does not recognize touch screen scrolling. Opera is now better at native direct to touch operations. But also at times, I find myself using TouchMousePointer for Opera early on.

File Explorer, I can actually get by with just direct to touch of the Surface Pro 2. Depending on scaling options, one can do direct to touch just fine on smaller sized full Windows tablets.

But if you want to cram more information at once on the desktop and have a small tablet footprint and size, TouchMousePointer is the way to go.
 
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