Drug Test Kit, $10

[housecat]

Originally posted by: JohnDoh

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You can go to the doctor and perscription pain pills like oxycotin *cough* Rush Limbaugh *cough* and its no big deal... BUT ....If you do heroin people are disgusted by you, you rape woman, rob people, are in a gang, you "prey on kids", your sick and an overall menace to society that must be put behind bars!

Limbaugh used prescription pain killers to manage severe back pain due to a collapsed vertebral disc and a failed spinal surgery. Those who use heroin do so first for purely recreational reasons, then because they become hooked. Apples to oranges. No...more like Earth to Pluto. There is zero analogy or comparison here.

PS: oh and sorry I had to get my republican bashing refrence in there

Were you Republican bashing? I thought you were just being stupid. Hmm...

My point wasnt the reason why he was using them but how people view these substances wich are for the most part EXACTLY the same thing. Plus he was doctor shopping to get multiple perscriptions to support his habbit...

If he was caught doing heroin just think of how people would look at it

Yes genius, we allow people to take the drugs in extreme cases of pain because they are in EXTREME PAIN. In these cases, the benefit outweighs the risk.





You just owned yourself.

"Plus he was doctor shopping to get multiple perscriptions to support his habbit... "

NOW do you understand why they dont just allow anyone to take these drugs?????????????/

You must be very very dense.

 

[JohnDoh]

You all pick out small parts of my arguement and come up with some lame baseless responce based on basically.... DRUGS ARE EVIL! When Ive made an arguement as a whole in my responces that clearly tears apart what you have to say.

Its ok, its hard when society teaches this as a truth. Just like the thruth the sun rises and fire is hot but... try and take a look outside that. Say to yourself "ok im going to try to prove to myself otherwise" and look openly with no bias about the issue of drugs.

Visit sites like http://www.cannabisculture.com/
or watch http://www.pot-tv.net/ shows
or libertairian party http://www.lp.org/ ...

or the million other sites out there and take a look at views beyond what you "think" you know or have seen

I could go on pointing out tons of wrongs in all your statements but.... without you really having a look at the other side of the story how can you make an educated descion? You think you have.... but you havent

housecat your pretty low blow comments arent worth much responding back to, when I discuss things with people I disagree with I dont insult them, it doesnt educate them any of my view and certainly doesnt prove im right (makes me (you) look like an idiot).

Off 2 bed

 

[tcsenter]

My point wasnt the reason why he was using them but how people view these substances wich are for the most part EXACTLY the same thing.

Heroin is 3 to 5 times more potent than morphine. And the reason why people use them is precisely what explains, in part, how people view these substances.

I am prescribed methylphenidate (Ritalin) for narcolepsy so that I don't fall asleep while driving and kill someone (or myself). I don't crush Ritalin and snort it for a buzz. One use should be viewed as legitimate, the other should not be.

And if you believe there is no humiliating or degrading stigma attached to prescription drug use, then you don't know anyone who suffers from chronic pain.

 

[housecat]

lol no one agrees with you at all man.. im not saying whats popular is right, but sometimes it means that you clearly have some issues as what you are saying is not a pleasant idea to just about anyone.

its pretty clear cut if you know someone that has abused nearly any drug. i dont defend alcohol or nicotine, i think all drugs are crap. the only drugs i take are if the doctor gives it too me.

theres a highly educated intellect base called universities that have pretty much examined these wonderous, mind expanding drugs and concluded the general populace does not need to be shooting them into their veins or snorting them up their noses...

some things in this world are just plain dangerous.



the stark difference between your view, and the rest of the worlds' is that you see the decision of whats right/wrong to be decided by the individual.
versus i see the decision not only up to the individual (as you can see from my posts explaining how you can still use LSD if you choose), but society is essentially its own individual entity. as a collective we decide through our democracy/elected officials whats safe to allow and what not.

the simple fact of this difference is that my viewpoint and method (which is in place) is much more effective.

You claim yours is so much more effective, but I have yet to see a single statistic showing projected declines in drug use in America if we did what you are suggesting.. and as you pointed out, the netherlands does.
I believe you would be completely wrong, the netherlands is not comparable at all to the USA and would not be relevant for exam. I would bet you that you are wrong in your 'statistics' in the netherland's drug usage regardless. That would be the first step in developing this thesis.

Even then though, you would have to somehow explain how the behavior pattern of a very different people (Americans) would follow theirs (and why). Then somehow perform a test that controlled all the millions of variables that drastically differentiate the USA from Holland. One small detail being about 250,000 million more people, not to mention a completely different national history/belief system/value system.

 

[imported_Shino]

this is only going to make the situtation worse at home, the kids are going to hate the parents even more and leave the house Thinking they can do things on their own. and tumble even further down the rabbit hole. but what do I care I'm long past that age, and can enjoy my freedom of the CNS.

 

[dchakrab]

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: JohnDoh


Is it really that hard, or bad to live without any drug or alchohol? I seem to do it and am finishing up my bachelor degree... just got married... and I'm extremely happy and content.. what everyone is saying is that this is the life that everyone wants for their kids..
and I'm 22.

drugs are not the way to becoming a productive citizen.

I just dont understand why there is such a dedicated lunatic fringe dedicated to legalizing drugs.. dont you have better things to do with your life??

...Because there are a *lot* of people who have the same lifestyle you have, and smoked pot when they were in college, or smoke off and on now. I don't, but many of my friends do. My opinion is that smoking weed should be as legal as drinking, with the same level of responsibility...if you beat your wife when you're drunk, you still go to jail because beating your wife is illegal. You do something stupid when you're stoned, you're still held responsible. Why make one illegal and not the other?

Alcohol and cigarettes are MUCH more pronounced gateway drugs than marijuana, and also more widely used by children. I've noticed this both with teenagers in India and here in the US, even in parts of India where weed is quasi-legal or legal and is freely available, and is dirt cheap. Common gateway drug of choice? Almost always home-rolled biris (cigarettes) or store-bought cigarettes, closely followed by some form of alcohol.

Interestingly, conservative Indian society is often of the opinion that you can't be a decent human being with the ideal lifestyle if you drink or smoke cigarettes. I find this equally disturbing. I think they could do with the examle of the US, where a lot of people drink and / or smoke and still manage to find jobs, make money, raise a family, and be successful...and I think the US could consider that the Netherlands, and many other European countries, seem to get along just fine with decriminalised or legalised marijuana usage. Incidentally, they also seem to have *much* less problems with binge drinking and alcohol poisoning in teenagers, possibly due to much more relaxed / nonexistent drinking age laws?

-D.

 

[dchakrab]

Incidentally, India's the world's largest democracy...does this make it a more valid example than the Netherlands?

Why ISN'T the Netherlands a valid example...just because it's a smaller country?

Where are the scientific studies proving that the US would turn into a massive red light area if people followed the Dutch example? Is this PROVEN fact? This is for all those that want nationwide TV coverage of a scientific study before they'll accept that it's valid. In other words, you'll only believe what CBS wants you to believe...that's an educated opinion?

Name one country, no matter how similar or dissimiliar to the US, that has had massive problems with teen drinking with a lowered (18 or 16 or nonexistant) drinking age. Actually, only the US comes to mind. Canada? Not really. Canadians teens I've talked to don't seem to think it's such a big deal to drink...they must have gotten all that out of their systems before I met them, I guess. Europeans seem the same, and so do Indians, to use a third world example. The frat party binge concept is uniquely American.

The problem isn't that the models and studies you're asking for don't exist...they exist, and have existed for a long time. The problem is that you won't accept them till Fox news endorses them, and will call your tiny window to the world "scientific fact" without any scientific backing. As long as you refuse to look at the evidence stacked on one side of this issue by screaming "that's not a scientific study" for your own given definitions of "scientific" and "study" you're not really scientific, open-minded, or educated enough to have an opinion on this issue.

-D.

 

[JHawk]

For those of you who are really worried about a drug test...........

Whizzinator

From this old man's perspective (with a teenage son)--know where your kids are and who they are with.....

 

[PLaYaHaTeD]

I eat up the republican bashing. The last time I listened to a debate with a republican involved, he opened with "So did you vote for that natzi bastard Kerry?"

In my experience, I keep seeing a significant amount of thick-skulled republicans, very similar to Zell Miller on hardball.

At this point, I'm with anyone who doesn't want corporations running america. And if you aren't the CEO of a major corporation, you would be an idiot to not have the same opinion.

 

[Busaninja]

Drug testing, rehabs, and all types of intervention only help a small percentage of drug users. Most continue to use, abuse, get sentenced to prison, and/or die.

Wouldn't it be nice if your child was one that intervention helped? Testing can help to determine the type of intervention needed.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: r0bVious
Hey, everyone flame me some more, because honestly, I know how you all know me so well.

I'm 17, I've never touched a drug in my life (this includes cigarettes and booze, minus the one time I accidentally drank a gulp of dark beer thinking it was soda at a party). I'm just not interested. I have two ideals I live by: Try not to do anything you'll regret, and Any sort of Vice is a bad thing.

The first reply to me is right. There are lots of kids that spout that crap and don't deserve it, but if I've earned my respect in my house, why shouldn't I be allowed it?

You people fail to realize this is a family-by-family deal here. You're all generalizing and stereotyping. This isn't an airport, this is the Hot Deals forum. Be nice and sociable, dammit.

If my school did random drug tests and I was chosen? Good. I will do it with a puffed chest. They don't personally know me, so I accept that, and I totally understand the reasoning. But I trust my parents, and thankfully they trust me. I never said I was entitled to it, I just happen to have it as a privelidge. Furthermore, I would never hurt my parents in any way, I love them dearly. They've done so much for me.

Many teenagers don't find their parents to be people they can talk to and constantly say the truth. I can honestly say, will much pride, that I have never lied to my parents. Never. Some of you more stereotyping/generalizing folks here may find that funny, but I figure that's why I don't respect you as much as the next upstanding personality I meet anyway.

Whatever. Prejudge all you want.

I was not ragging on you because you were objecting. I was ragging on you because you said you would use physical violence against your parents if you did not get your way. I would like to see all of the snot-nosed brats that think this way shipped out of the States until they learn better.

If my child were to ever call CPS on me because I gave him/her a beating for something that they deserved they would be out the door to one of those reeducation camps before CPS could arrive.

Hell, I'm one of those wacky libertarians that believe in the legalization and taxation of drugs. Has anyone ever killed someone or robbed a bank while high from reefer? Fvck No.

 

[MogyBear]

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Senator

Originally posted by: moshquerade

you wanna link me that quote by Ronald Reagan?

Take your pick of sites. Google rules.

http://www.google.com/search?q...zilla:en-US:unofficial

link me this quote, as he specifically said Reagan said this:

Originally posted by: Deucer
As Ronald Regan used to say, "It's only the gays and drug addicts dying of AIDS so what do I care."

He didnt say it, its just uniformed liberal propaganda. AIDS research funding was very pricey and taken care of during the Reagan years... especially considering we hardly knew what it even was at the time.

The guy who posted that is just another moron.

Read this for the facts. http://www.indegayforum.org/au.../murdock/murdock4.html

For the 12,000th time in my life I'm forced to say: Go Get Educated and Come Back and Talk Later. I'm fairly sick of this uneducated babble on President Reagan.

These people thrive on conspiracies, everything is a freakin conspiracy because the facts are not on their side.

I know that fellow wont take time to read that article, or the supporting financial facts to back it up, but by 1989 we were spending over 2billion on AIDS research.

kthxbye

w00t for a fellow educated Republican!

 

[phreakyzen]

Originally posted by: housecat
theres a highly educated intellect base called universities that have pretty much examined these wonderous, mind expanding drugs and concluded the general populace does not need to be shooting them into their veins or snorting them up their noses...

It wasn't universities or any scientific method that made marijuana illegal it was DuPont corporation through Henry Anslinger.

Google + Anslinger + Dupont

Some university studies:

UCSC.edu

Loyola Dept. of Psychology

To believe the first thing you hear about something shows a lack of intelligence. If you want to go on believing everything you are told by the US gov that's fine but please leave me and mine out of it.

There are millions of dangerous things in this world. If you?re smart enough to deal with them you live, if not well that's just natural selection. If you do not believe in natural selection then I guess you will just have to leave it up to god on how to judge me.

 

[housecat]

The loyola "study" is pretty limited (it looks like an undergrad paper), the UCSC does not link to the actual evidence so i cannot review if its flawed or not. But it would have to be cross examined by multiple experts, then agreed upon by a majority of politicians to pass. But you'd probably have to convince the majority of the public too, and allowing access to LSD, X, coke, meth ect to a 12 year old kid just wont fly as being very kosher.

So theres your assignment.

... all so you can "help the USA drug problem", right?
What great public samaritans we have in our midst!!!!!

 

[iamWolverine]

wow what a breeding ground for OT discussion

first let me just say that be wary of any test at home drug kits as false results are common, and the truly reliable method is of course lab testing.

if you are a parent considering this for your kids i would strongly suggest trying to sit down and having a candid and non-threatening conversation before you jump to any conclusions or the such. trust is important in any relationship. if anyone, child or adult, is taking drugs they should understand the consequences, this goes for any substance, legal or otherwise. it is not the use of substances that are necessarily harmful, but rather the abuse of substances (think about it, the overuse and abuse of just about anything is harmful, even food and sex, basically the mind begins to obssess and that is where many problems arise). now clearly certain drugs have much greater potential for abuse, heroin and cocain are amongst the most addictive drugs, and can change brain chemistry even after single use, but this does not mean that there is anything inherently wrong with the person. i don't claim to be an expert, i don't think anyone here could, but i studied neuroscience, with a concentration on drug abuse and mental disorders, and have read a great deal about this subject area, so i have come to my own conclusions, which i can understand that not all would agree with (and those that may agree, may agree for other reasons). one of my fellow students and good friends had for a long time been victim to substance abuse, and while she saw many of her friends struggle with drug abuse, she eventually managed to escape it and in her 30s came back to college also studied neuroscience and is now going through medical school, and i would trust her more than some other doctors (or potential doctors) that i've met in my time. my point is substance abuse itself does not mean anything, does not equate to violence or irresponsibility or wasting away of the mind (not that these things don't happen, but that is to be judged on an individual basis, not by stereotyping). there are those that can control themselves, and those that lose control, that is what leads to abuse, and that is what people should focus on when trying to help each other. sending thousands of people to jail for drug use or possession does not help anyone and is a waste of time, money, resources and most importantly the livelihood of those imprisoned--we need to work better with each other to come to a better solution, but also realize that the drugs themselves are not necessarily the problem.
also, it's a bit silly to defend the government for its handeling of the issue of drugs since it is two-sided and has in the past introduced illegal substances into communities, not to mention that we have a war-mongering president who used to dabble in a little cocain (evidently even at camp david while his father was in office). although gw certainly is no success story for drug use and recovery considering he's run every organization he's ever headed into the ground (oil company arbusto, baseball team, and now the whole country, take your pick, economy, foreign relations, etc etc), but i don't blame the drugs for that

 

[JohnDoh]

How can people conclude there viewpoints rationally on prohibition without truely seeing both sides of the story?

People are told by first there parents, then hour opon hours of drug education in school, then society as a whole, then countless hours of tv drug propoganda in commercials and news. Yet only hearing probably an hours worth of the opposing viewpoint on drug policy there whole lifes, many times by news shows that pick guests based on how poor they are so that there view on legalization will look foolish? Thousands of hours of pro prohibition viewpoints and basically nothing to oppose that, how is that a fair way to draw a conclusion?

The drug problem is simple, we want to reduce the effects of drugs on people an society, we need to look at....

1. Drug addiction is not a moral flaw despite the average persons inability to understand why people "just cant quit" and "dont have willpower". Despite people having a hard time understanding that it IS fact by all in the medical field that addiction is an illness. What other illnesses in society do we lock people up in jail for? Not only is it not effective its a gross violation of peoples rights. Ive done charity work in rehabs and the basis of all sucsessfull rehabilitation programs are based on the notion that people are powerless over there drugs, hence that its an illness. Everything in these programs basically makes a good point for legalization because of there rational thinking on drugs.

2. Use: Criminalizing drugs does not prevent use, hence as noted above the fact people are powerless over there addiction. Its why people will break the law to get drugs, otherwise law abiding people will rob and commit other crimes in there intence need for the substance. People say legalization will increase usage. Is it hard to get drugs now? NO, its easy, anyone with the slightest willingness to obtain any substance can easyily in any city, town, country, state.. anywhere in the world. Prohibition has not made drug harder to get. We worry about kids getting drugs, well just like the prohibition of alcohol, its EASYIER for kids to get drugs when there illegal and not regulated, a drug dealer does not ask for an ID and he doesnt have a licence to sell drugs that he has to worry about losing.

3. Education: We live in a world where the education of drugs is a scare tactic filled with myths and propoganda. If we are honest about the consequences of drug use we will do more to help prevent drug abuse. If you tell a child that marijuana is as evil as heroin and cocain and other substances, then when they discover marijuana isnt. They realize its not extreamly harmfull, they then lose trust in the whole arguement, and then beleive there parents and schools lied to them about all drugs. They are more likely to do hard drugs as a result. An honest approach to drug education in all of society gives people the best tools to decide wether or not to use drugs and MUCH easyier for people who become addicted to drugs to realize and deal with there problems. People who are addicted live in much the same denial as mentioned above about the extream propoganda (lieing) about drugs has led them to beleive that all arguements against drug use are invalid lies, wich there not.

We have a sucessfull program in place now for alcohol being legal. People have this huge misconception that "hard" drugs are MUCH more dangerious then alcohol, they also have a misconception about how dangerious alcohol is and can be. Ive been to rehabs and worked in rehabs and let me tell you... alcohol is extreamly dangerious! I encourage everyone who hasnt seen the long term effects of alcohol abuse that they go to a detox ward of there local hospital or rehab and ask to volunteer or just plain walk around and watch if you can. Alcohol abuse and addiction is just as bad as heroin, cocain, crack, meth ect...... Ive seen them all and they all share the same storys no matter what substances they use, except for the consequences and hardships people have endured because of the prohibition of drugs. It has often made recovery much harder, kept them addicted longer, made there life physically dangerious. Alcoholics dont have to rob to afford to pay for there habbit. They dont have to sell there bodys. They dont allways lose there jobs because of there drinking problem. They dont belong to gangs.

Its scarey to people the thought of legalization or decrimnalization or the lessening of any drug policys. There afraid because they beleive the one sided story of the pure evil these substances are and induce. They think that if they become legal everyone will use the substances and become automatically hooked. They think that they will commit crimes and go crazy because thats the effects of drugs on the mind. All drugs just like alcohol can be used in a postive way and enjoyed by many, but there are risks. I could keep going on I have a few more points but I doubt anyone will read any further

 

[JohnDoh]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You can go to the doctor and perscription pain pills like oxycotin *cough* Rush Limbaugh *cough* and its no big deal... BUT ....If you do heroin people are disgusted by you, you rape woman, rob people, are in a gang, you "prey on kids", your sick and an overall menace to society that must be put behind bars!

Limbaugh used prescription pain killers to manage severe back pain due to a collapsed vertebral disc and a failed spinal surgery. Those who use heroin do so first for purely recreational reasons, then because they become hooked. Apples to oranges. No...more like Earth to Pluto. There is zero analogy or comparison here.

PS: oh and sorry I had to get my republican bashing refrence in there

Were you Republican bashing? I thought you were just being stupid. Hmm...

Your missing what im saying, its the same as heroin, he broke the law and doctor shopped to get multiple perscriptions to support his habbit. I have no problem with recreational drug use. The fact is you have two people hooked on basically the same substance except one is accepted by society because it comes in pill form and the other is looked at as evil because its called heroin. Either way you have two people addicted to these substances, they should both be looked at the same, as sick with an illness and shouldnt be put in jail for there usage.

Im just trying to draw a constrast between two substances that are basically the same but looked at so differently by society because of peoples brainwashed beleifs.

 

[tcsenter]

Your missing what im saying, its the same as heroin, he broke the law and doctor shopped to get multiple perscriptions to support his habbit. I have no problem with recreational drug use.

Well there's your problem. See my example above that uses the exact same drug, not a sufficiently different semisynthetic derivative of the other.

The fact is you have two people hooked on basically the same substance except one is accepted by society because it comes in pill form and the other is looked at as evil because its called heroin.

Umm, no. The reasons they are using them is everything, the form they come in has nothing to do with societal perceptions. If what you say were true, diabetics who give themselves injections would be viewed no differently than an IV drug abuser. They're not.