DSL wiring question

[Horsepower]

I have a 4 year old DSL setup. There is a small box at the demark that separates the DSL pair into 2 pair. Those come into the house to an RJ45 jack. The phone side of that goes to the phones. What is the difference between that, and the newer setup that just plugs the modem into the phone jack and puts filters on the other lines. Is one better that the other? Thank you.

 

[Thoreau]

I'm not very experienced with DSL specifically, but that sounds more like a seperate line for the DSL. AFAIK current DSL technology allows everything to run off a single pair.. voice + data... and just requires a filter on one of the two (can't remember which.) Perhaps the setup you have is really a common pair split with a filter on one?

 

[martind1]

that would be my guess. that the split and filter is already done for you.

i would guess this would be for convience of not having to filter at every other phone jack.

 

[jjoyner]

This is a hella lot better than what you had. Let me tell you why.

RJ11 interconnect work is run in serial. That is why if you try to fax over a DSL line without using a filter, your will 80% of the time drop your sync.

Apparently someone ran you a seperate line, which excludes it from all other devices on that circuit. Meaning that all the voltage over that line is running to your DSL modem. Which is better because you won't get sapped the next time the phone rings on that line and a 90 Volt surge comes across your Cat3.

 

[buleyb]

Ditto. Don't rock the boat pal

 

[imported_Paladin]

Originally posted by: Horsepower
I have a 4 year old DSL setup. There is a small box at the demark that separates the DSL pair into 2 pair. Those come into the house to an RJ45 jack. The phone side of that goes to the phones. What is the difference between that, and the newer setup that just plugs the modem into the phone jack and puts filters on the other lines. Is one better that the other? Thank you.

There are two ways of installing DSL:
1. With a splitter at the MPoE, filtering the high frequencies from the voice side and delievering the DSL on a clean connection to the modem
2. With micro-filters at each voice grade device struggling to filter the high frequencies of the DSL and with the DSL signal seeing every voice jack as another bridge tap to degrade the signal.

The difference between a Splitter and a Filter is easy to SEE.

The Splitter is technically the better way to go. The Filters are easier, cheaper, and work just as well unless you are too far or too close to the Central Office.

(actually there are a lot of different options when installing DSL -- I have even done combo jobs with a Splitter and a filter.)

 

[cmetz]

Horsepower, you have what is called a splitter. That is a whole-house filter at or near the NID, that splits the POTS frequencies off to one pair and the ADSL frequencies off to the other. This is the best way to do it.

Filters are used now because telcos want to have users do "self-installs" rather than sending out a technician - it's way cheaper for them. They are not as good, for various reasons others have explained. When you have problems with your ADSL line quality, the first thing they'll try is to send out a technician to install a splitter, because some significant portion of the line quality problems get fixed just by switching to do it the better way.

If you have a splitter, you're in good shape.

 

[Eltano1]

Paladin, that was a great explanation, and clarify why a tech has to come to my house, check why my new ADSL modem did not work, even though I have a working ADSL. What happened is that I have an splitter outside of my house, and the new modem (that come with filters) could not get a link. The tech solution was to bridge 2 pair of wires inside the phone outlet, where I have my old and new modem.

Best regards

Eltano


PS: the reason why I changed is because now I have 3.0/384 dl/up , when previously was 1.5/256

 

[Horsepower]

Thanks for all of the answers, I have ordered a new DSL on the other pair, so when I get it, I'll switch the lines to use the external splitter. Then when I have the new one running, I'll call and cancel the old one. Hopefully the updated modem which they say is now necessary is compatible.

 

[imported_Paladin]

Originally posted by: Eltano1
.... clarify why a tech has to come to my house, check why my new ADSL modem did not work, even though I have a working ADSL. What happened is that I have an splitter outside of my house, and the new modem (that come with filters) could not get a link.

The tech had to come out 'cause you didn't ask me. The original DSL modems connected on pair 2 (usually the yellow-black.) When they come up with the distributed filters they also moved the connection to pair 1 (usually the red-green.) Quick and dirty solution is to connect both pairs to the line in the DSL jack.

The tech solution was to bridge 2 pair of wires inside the phone outlet, where I have my old and new modem.
....
PS: the reason why I changed is because now I have 3.0/384 dl/up , when previously was 1.5/256

If that is SBC you might find your upload speed creeping up.

 

[Eltano1]

Paladin, yes, is Bellsouth, man oh man, you know your stuff . When you said that my upload would creep up, why is that?
Is there any other better solution, instead of bridging the wires?

Eltano

 

[imported_Paladin]

It's just wire -- tip and ring. Hasn't changed a bit in 38 years, 'cept for a tighter twist and an obscene increase in what it is expected to carry.

Your 1.5/256 was sold as 384-1.5/128. SBC has allowed the upload speeds to increase over the nominal caps. I saw, but did not bookmark and cannot find again, something about a ??-3.0/384-??? offering. Check it in a couple of weeks and tell us what you have.

Assuming that the tech simply wired the red and yellow wires of the jack to the ring of the line and the green and black wires of the jack to the tip of the line then no, there is no better solution. You can now plug near any DMT modem in and hook up.

 

[Eltano1]

I tested the speed and I got near 2.8 dl and 350+ up, I used dlsreport speed test, and also BS site, which has another speed test, and of course BS was higher, probably because there might no be a lot of traffic between my modem and their servers.

That outlet is in my son's room, and I'm thinking to move the modem to my den, where I have my work place (I'm a pc tech). The outlet has two RJ11, one for the phone line and the other for the ADSL line. What do I need to do to have the same setup in my den? I'm asking because I tried to conect it to my regular phone line (one RJ11) and it didnt work.

Thanks in advance for your help

Eltano

 

[Horsepower]

Now I'm getting confused... Will the old outside splitter work with the newer modems? What's the deal with the above posts that say to connect the split pair together? And now the NEW dilemma. My security system requires capture of the phone line when sending data. What effect will that have on this equation?
Thanx in advance.

 

[imported_Paladin]

Originally posted by: Horsepower
Now I'm getting confused... Will the old outside splitter work with the newer modems?

Yes. The Splitter splits the data from the voice at the Minimum Point of Entry. It will work with any possible signal that is riding above the voice band on a telephone line.

What's the deal with the above posts that say to connect the split pair together?

That is at the modular jack inside the premise that connects to the DSL modem. You are not connecting the split pairs together, but rather connecting both pair 1 and pair 2 of the jack to the DSL signal -- so you no longer need to care which pair the modem is using.

And now the NEW dilemma. My security system requires capture of the phone line when sending data. What effect will that have on this equation?

Security systems that capture the voice line REQUIRE a Splitter to be installed at the MPoE. The combined voice+DSL comes in from the telephone company, hits the splitter which sends the DSL to the DSL modem and the voice to the security system's jack. The security system can then override the voice side of the line with no effect whatsoever on the DSL. (to test this I jammed a screwdriver across my voice line past the splitter. DSL did not notice.)

 

[imported_Paladin]

Originally posted by: Eltano1...That outlet is in my son's room, and I'm thinking to move the modem to my den, where I have my work place (I'm a pc tech). The outlet has two RJ11, one for the phone line and the other for the ADSL line. What do I need to do to have the same setup in my den? I'm asking because I tried to conect it to my regular phone line (one RJ11) and it didnt work.

With a NID splitter there is no trace of a DSL signal anywhere except at the one and only one data jack (in your son's room.) Unless you have a single multi-pair cable feeding all the phone jacks in your house in which case the signal is present on that pair at every jack. Unless that pair is broken at the DSL jack, which it should be.

If you have a single cable, all you need to is install a double jack in the den and connect the DSL pair to the second jack. Break the cable past that jack to eliminate the bridge tap, maybe reconnect it thru in your son's room.

If you have separarte IW's to each jack then all you need to do is identify the IW going to the den. Tie a spare pair of that IW to the data terminals of the splitter (removing the IW going to your son's room) and install a double jack in the den and connecting that same spare (now the DSL line) pair to your new DSL jack.

If you want a better explaination from me I require pictures of what you have. (I love digital photography!)

 

[Pretty Cool]

Paladin used to moderate another forum and was an absolute ass**** there. I should know, he treated me like dirt. No, make that trash. That forum is now a much better place since the egomaniac is not around anymore.

 

[Eltano1]

Hey Pretty Cool, if you have a problem with Paladin you should resolve it with him, your post has nothing to do here, I don't see any reason to do that.

Eltano