DSLR for Wife

[olds]

Wife got her point and shoot stolen out of her car. She wants a dslr. She is terrible at remembering aperture, etc, settings.
I assume all have an auto mode, is there one that's better than another for a neophyte? I took photography in college (1978) but never really got into it. I assume at some point one of us will get into it a little more and experiment so we will be using the manual mode at some point.
Budget: less than 1k (camera, tripod, bag and 1 lens)
Uses: Landscapes/family pics.
Lenses: standard 18-55mm/telephoto/macro
TIA

 

[ElFenix]

they're all pretty similar under that price point. about the biggest differences you'll find in terms of features is that canon and nikon put stabilization in the lens, while sony, pentax, and olympus put it in the body. also, some have a live view mode and some do not (and then live view works differently on some than others).

the biggest difference between them is ergonomics. best advice would be to go to a store and use the cameras there. look through the viewfinder, press all the buttons, hold it like she would when taking a picture (left hand underneath supporting the lens, right hand on the grip).

here is the list to look at (these are all 10 MP unless indicated):

nikon D60 (lacks in-body focusing motor so it won't drive older nikon AF lenses)

nikon D40 (similar to D60, but only 6 MP and cheap)

nikon D80 (i think it'll fit your budget from an online store. it's getting a little long in the tooth and should be replaced in august, though that model will probably cost more than the D80 does now)

canon xti (kit lens is not very good, the 18-55 IS is better and not very expensive by itself)

canon xsi (12 MP, has the better canon kit lens, has live view)

canon xs (not sure if this is in stores yet, it's sort of between the xti and xsi in features, but lacking in some features compared to either. it has live view and the better 18-55 IS)


sony A200 (IS in body, i think this is the best of the sony's, and it's also the least expensive, about $500 with lens online)

sony A300/A350 (IS in body. both have live view and a tilting, but not rotating, LCD. focus during live view is much faster than with other SLRs, but you pay for it with a small viewfinder. the A300 is 10 MP while the A350 is 14 MP)

olympus e-520 (IS in body, live view, small viewfinder)

olympus e-420 (no IS, has live view, small viewfinder, the camera is tiny)

pentax k200d (IS in body, no live view, has environmental seals)

 

[olds]

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it.

they're all pretty similar under that price point. about the biggest differences you'll find in terms of features is that canon and nikon put stabilization in the lens, while sony, pentax, and olympus put it in the body. also, some have a live view mode and some do not (and then live view works differently on some than others).

Which is better/do you recommend?

 

[randomlinh]

the debate on camera vs lens IS will drive you nuts, heh. I'd take your wife out and see which camera FEELS good in her hands first. Then from that, you will probably eliminate a couple of choices.

 

[jpeyton]

Get a D40/18-55mm kit for ~$400. Put it in the green box "Auto" mode or P "programmed auto" mode, and start taking great pictures.

I wouldn't over-think this one. You could stretch your entire $1k budget if you wanted and get something more expensive, but I'd just pocket that extra money for more lenses in the future (which are the 'real' investment, not the body). Nikon's 18-55mm kit lens is awesome; sample.

 

[cputeq]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Wife got her point and shoot stolen out of her car. She wants a dslr. She is terrible at remembering aperture, etc, settings.
I assume all have an auto mode, is there one that's better than another for a neophyte? I took photography in college (1978) but never really got into it. I assume at some point one of us will get into it a little more and experiment so we will be using the manual mode at some point.
Budget: less than 1k (camera, tripod, bag and 1 lens)
Uses: Landscapes/family pics.
Lenses: standard 18-55mm/telephoto/macro
TIA

Here's an important question --

Does your wife (or you) ever plan to use it like a "real" camera?

Meaning -- Is she against using the viewfinder for taking pictures? Do you plan on using Liveview at all (the back LCD screen), like many PnS users do?

----

This is an important consideration, because some of the newer models don't have Live view, and almost all of them (except maybe Olympus) are considerably bulkier than a point n shoot, which may be intimidating.


If you're planning on using Liveview extensively -- Get a Sony A300.

I'm not a Sony user. I shoot a Pentax K20D. But, currently Sony's live view is about the best there is, and the kit comes with a 17-70 lens, which covers wide angle and light telephoto angles.. The camera kit sells at Amazon for right around $600, and is a good candidate to ease someone from PnS land into DSLR, *especially* if they're addicted to live view.

Plus, Sony has in-body stabilization, which is incredibly awesome because it works for any lens.



Then, it's simply a matter of picking up more of a telephoto lens if you want, and you can choose between Sony/Minolta, Tamron, Sigma. at various price points and image quality. A quick glance yields lenses costing around 150-350.

Throw in a decent Manfrotto tripod for about $150 and a starter DSLR bag for $80 and you're set, and right at your budget.

------------
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I'm just warning you now, questions like this have a tendency to turn into a brand pissing match, but the most important thing is if you or your wife like the camera. I'd suggest hand-holding a few models before buying and do not let salemen push you into one brand or another...if they don't know what they're talking about, then they're probably a fanboy of one type or another

 

[Madwand1]

All smart manufacturers should be very competitive at the entry level. I'd try to judge based on tastes -- which vendor's "culture" feels better to you for the long consumer lock-in haul.

 

[dman]

I don't know if they changed it in the XSI but the LiveView on the 40D requires you to be in a program/manual mode. It also focuses less efficiently. As such, it's not comparable to the liveview modes on P&S cameras, so, she should be prepared to use it like a regular SLR through the viewfinder and reserve liveview for specific needs.

The kit lenses on the DSLR entry levels may leave something to be desired. 18-55mm is uesful but not very sharp or fast (with or without IS), compared to some similarly priced P&S Cameras. It'll still take great pictures, but, maybe not as good as expected. You will gain the ability to use a very low noise ISO400+ which makes up for the slow lense speed.

IMO, the biggest advantage of DSLR's is speed. They startup very fast and take more FPS than P&S. Get a big memory card and use it to your advantage. Size/Weight is probably the big disadvantage.

 

[olds]

Thanks for the input. We will use a viewfider as I find some light conditions wash out the view screens and make seeing the composition difficult.

 

[daveshel]

The new Canon XS looks like a great entry level DSLR, especially with the IS lens. I had a look at one of those lenses and it looked pretty good to me.

 

[twistedlogic]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Thanks for the input. We will use a viewfider as I find some light conditions wash out the view screens and make seeing the composition difficult.

Has she tried any out yet?

As many have said, if the camera doesn't feel right in her hands, shes not going to want to use it or will feel uncomfortable over long shoots.

My suggestion is to stick with either Nikon or Cannon, as they have the widest selection of lenses to choose from. Plus there are plenty of places to rent lenses and gear for these two manufactures. Check out Lens Rental dot com.

The Canon XTi and Nikon D40 are both comparable in Image quality, but most say the Canon grip is awkward and the body feels plastic like. Problem with the D40 though is you lose the ability to auto focus on the cheap prime glass (50mm F/1.8).

Either way there both nice cameras that will create some nice pictures. The Canon has more MP and more features, but the Nikon has a brighter LCD screen and the ability to do Auto ISO.

Good luck with the choice

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: twistedlogic

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Thanks for the input. We will use a viewfider as I find some light conditions wash out the view screens and make seeing the composition difficult.

Has she tried any out yet?

As many have said, if the camera doesn't feel right in her hands, shes not going to want to use it or will feel uncomfortable over long shoots.

My suggestion is to stick with either Nikon or Cannon, as they have the widest selection of lenses to choose from. Plus there are plenty of places to rent lenses and gear for these two manufactures. Check out Lens Rental dot com.

The Canon XTi and Nikon D40 are both comparable in Image quality, but most say the Canon grip is awkward and the body feels plastic like. Problem with the D40 though is you lose the ability to auto focus on the cheap prime glass (50mm F/1.8).

Either way there both nice cameras that will create some nice pictures. The Canon has more MP and more features, but the Nikon has a brighter LCD screen and the ability to do Auto ISO.

Good luck with the choice

I wouldn't worry too much about the camera manufacturers with the largest selection of lenses, especially when the OP stated that they only want ONE lens. The majority of DSLR users never buy more than the kit lens anyway, and if they do, they'll tend to stick to consumer grade telephoto lenses, which are fairly comparable across the brands.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine.

 

[olds]

She has a friend who has a dslr and likes the feel of it. I haven't seen the camera so I don't know the brand.

 

[abaez]

Just got my e420 with the pancake lens - it's incredibly small, like a large P&S. It makes things a little easier when you don't have this huge camera in people's faces.

There are some slight issues with the AA filter (check dpreview review), but the kit lenses are pretty good from what I've read. All told, it'll be a great camera to carry around once I get a wider lens. The live view is also very convenient and there are no problems using it in bright sunlight. I wish I would have had it when I went to Japan in April.

 

[twistedlogic]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
I wouldn't worry too much about the camera manufacturers with the largest selection of lenses, especially when the OP stated that they only want ONE lens.

I thought when the OP stated:

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Lenses: standard 18-55mm/telephoto/macro
TIA

Lenses as in more than one, the kit, a telephoto, and a macro lens.

What better way to find out what you want before you buy than to go rent one? I thought this was a big plus as buying a $400 lens is a big decision. I dreamt of owning the Bigma for months, now I'm using one I prefer VR and a light telephoto lens over the 4lb beast.

Originally posted by: AndrewR
The majority of DSLR users never buy more than the kit lens anyway, and if they do, they'll tend to stick to consumer grade telephoto lenses, which are fairly comparable across the brands.

The majority you are speaking are probably not the ones that take the time to come to an Internet forum let alone research a camera before they buy.

I'm not saying to stick with the two big dogs just because of lenses, there Image Quality and high ISO low noise images are great too.

I'm just trying to help the OP make the best choice, lending him info about renting a lens would have sparked my interest when I first started looking into buying a DSLR.

 

[alexruiz]

You will get a lot of replies, as unlike the P&S market , the entry DSLR market comes in only 2 flavors: Very good and excellent.
ANY DSLR you will pick will get you excellent pictures.

As others have suggested, you have to answer some questions:

1) How crucial is liveview? Is she comfortable using the viewfinder?
2) How important is the size? Any DSLR will be biger than any bridge P&S, and will feel enormous compared to a compact P&S. Is she willing to take the added bulk?
3) How much are you willing to spend down the road? Yes, many people will suggest the main brands because of bigger lens selection, but I have yet to see users of their entry level models using other lenses than the kit 18-55. If you are not willing a lot immediately, the quality of the kit lens becomes crucial.

My suggestions based on criteria:
1) If liveview is a concern, get a Sony as suggested (A200, A300 or A350). Second option would be an olympus (E420 or E520).

2) If size is important, no question, get the Olympus E420... Olympus MUST add image stabilization to the E430

3) If you are not planning to dump a lot of cash right now, you need a camera with a good kit lens. Grab an Olympus E520 or a Pentax K200D. The Pentax DA* 18-55 (ver 2) is probably the best kit lenses right now, and the Olympus Zuiko 14-40 is right there with the Pentax. Canon and Nikon are middle of the road in their newer versions, the older ones are mediocre. The Sony 14-70 is perceived as mediocre/poor.

I placed a lot of emphasis in this one because, as I said, the typical Joe sixpack will shoot using the kit lens. My wife shoots with a Pentax K100D, and at school events she was getting consistently better pictures that other parents shooting with D40/D40x/XT/XTis..... The reason? Everyone was shooting with the kit lenses. Yes, even with similar glass the K100D has clearly better IQ than the D40, and a toss up with the others..... But the Pentax kit lens is better. Now, she shoots with the Pentax Prime DA 35mm, and it is not even close....

Bottom line, any one will suffice, try them in store. My pick (biased by the way) would be the Pentax K200D

 

[Kermy]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

I placed a lot of emphasis in this one because, as I said, the typical Joe sixpack will shoot using the kit lens. My wife shoots with a Pentax K100D, and at school events she was getting consistently better pictures that other parents shooting with D40/D40x/XT/XTis..... The reason? Everyone was shooting with the kit lenses. Yes, even with similar glass the K100D has clearly better IQ than the D40, and a toss up with the others..... But the Pentax kit lens is better. Now, she shoots with the Pentax Prime DA 35mm, and it is not even close....

Bottom line, any one will suffice, try them in store. My pick (biased by the way) would be the Pentax K200D

Out of curiosity, what do you mean with "better pictures?" Were your wife's pictures better exposed, sharper, nicer colors compared to the other DSLRs?

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: Kermy

Originally posted by: alexruiz

I placed a lot of emphasis in this one because, as I said, the typical Joe sixpack will shoot using the kit lens. My wife shoots with a Pentax K100D, and at school events she was getting consistently better pictures that other parents shooting with D40/D40x/XT/XTis..... The reason? Everyone was shooting with the kit lenses. Yes, even with similar glass the K100D has clearly better IQ than the D40, and a toss up with the others..... But the Pentax kit lens is better. Now, she shoots with the Pentax Prime DA 35mm, and it is not even close....

Bottom line, any one will suffice, try them in store. My pick (biased by the way) would be the Pentax K200D

Out of curiosity, what do you mean with "better pictures?" Were your wife's pictures better exposed, sharper, nicer colors compared to the other DSLRs?

Sharper all around, with a noticeable difference in the corners.
Better contrast also, but not as noticeable as the sharpness.

Granted, ANY of the pictures by all those cameras would put a P&S to shame, and you would have a hard time spoting differences even when printed at 8x10. But at 100% on the computer, you could see the difference. That matters when cropping.

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: alexruiz
1) If liveview is a concern, get a Sony as suggested (A200, A300 or A350).

n.b. A200 doesn't have Liveview

The Sony 14-70 is perceived as mediocre/poor.

it's actually not that bad although there is some sample variability - up until recently it was considered as 1 of the better kit lenses.
It will however, definitely be the limiting factor on a 10/14Mp body (a comment also true of all the other manufacturers' kit lenses).

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: twistedlogic

Originally posted by: AndrewR
I wouldn't worry too much about the camera manufacturers with the largest selection of lenses, especially when the OP stated that they only want ONE lens.

I thought when the OP stated:

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Lenses: standard 18-55mm/telephoto/macro
TIA

Lenses as in more than one, the kit, a telephoto, and a macro lens.

My mistake -- I misread the post. However, since none of those lenses are particularly exotic and present within every manufacturer's range of lenses, the larger selection of Canon and Nikon is moot.

Originally posted by: AndrewR
The majority of DSLR users never buy more than the kit lens anyway, and if they do, they'll tend to stick to consumer grade telephoto lenses, which are fairly comparable across the brands.

The majority you are speaking are probably not the ones that take the time to come to an Internet forum let alone research a camera before they buy.

I'm not saying to stick with the two big dogs just because of lenses, there Image Quality and high ISO low noise images are great too.

I'm just trying to help the OP make the best choice, lending him info about renting a lens would have sparked my interest when I first started looking into buying a DSLR.
[/quote]

Image quality is certainly comparable across the brands, with some having slightly better performance here or there under specific circumstances. Picture peeping at 100% crop to see dreaded noise at ISO1600+ is hardly the basis for deciding a brand. I've found the noise issue to be overblown, and I've extensively used one of the "worst offenders" with the Sony A100. Is it a big deal? Nope. I don't take many pictures in the dark, and I have a nice external flash when I want to. Just saying it's not the end-all be-all of camera issues.

Renting lenses is a great idea. I know Canon and Nikon have lens rentals, and I also know that there's a site (not affiliated with Sony) that rents Sony lenses out. I am not sure about Pentax or Olympus, however.

 

[olds]

1) How crucial is liveview? Is she comfortable using the viewfinder?
I'd say 50/50. There are some conditions where liveview is washed out.

2) How important is the size? Any DSLR will be biger than any bridge P&S, and will feel enormous compared to a compact P&S. Is she willing to take the added bulk?
She has only held one and it wasn't an issue.

3) How much are you willing to spend down the road? Yes, many people will suggest the main brands because of bigger lens selection, but I have yet to see users of their entry level models using other lenses than the kit 18-55. If you are not willing a lot immediately, the quality of the kit lens becomes crucial.
We are looking to spend up to $1000 initially and in the end maybe $1000 more.
We hope to end up with a body in the 10 MP range that has a view finder and live view. She'll also need a standard lens, a telephoto lens and a macro. I imagine at some point she'll want to experiment with filters. She'll also need a good case and a tripod.
Still looking into the stabilization issue but having it in the body seems to be the way to go.

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
1) How crucial is liveview? Is she comfortable using the viewfinder?
I'd say 50/50. There are some conditions where liveview is washed out.

2) How important is the size? Any DSLR will be biger than any bridge P&S, and will feel enormous compared to a compact P&S. Is she willing to take the added bulk?
She has only held one and it wasn't an issue.

3) How much are you willing to spend down the road? Yes, many people will suggest the main brands because of bigger lens selection, but I have yet to see users of their entry level models using other lenses than the kit 18-55. If you are not willing a lot immediately, the quality of the kit lens becomes crucial.
We are looking to spend up to $1000 initially and in the end maybe $1000 more.
We hope to end up with a body in the 10 MP range that has a view finder and live view. She'll also need a standard lens, a telephoto lens and a macro. I imagine at some point she'll want to experiment with filters. She'll also need a good case and a tripod.
Still looking into the stabilization issue but having it in the body seems to be the way to go.

For $1k initially, I say try to grab a deal on the Pentax K10D and the Pentax DA 17-70. The K10D has been replaced with the K20D, so if you still can find it will be cheap (~$700 ) Keep in mind the K10D is not an entry DSLR (it is semi pro / midrange ), so there are no Scene modes.

Pentax makes arguably the best primes, so the DA 35mm or 50 mm will be a good choice later.

Having said so, If I was buying now, it would be a Pentax K200D or Olympus E520. Being the kit lenses better than average it minimizes the need to dump more money immediately. In fact, based on your assessment, I say the E520 is for you. It has liveview, image stabilization in the body, and there is one kit with the Zuiko 14-42 and 40-150 lenses. Only downside is that high ISO quality is not as good as the competition, but for a 4x6 or even 8x10 it will be plenty. I love the E420, but the lack of IS in the body is a bid deal, at least for me. I am an awful shooter, and the K100D and my spare, a kodak Z712 IS allow me to take pictures that otherwise would be blury.

Did I mention the E520 kit with 2 lenses will run much lower than $1k?



Alex

 

[abaez]

Right now the e520 is $522 with the 14-42 kit lens (which is good): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi...256KD9C1BPC5J&v=glance. In-body IS, compact size, live view, very good deal. I'm thinking this may be a price mistake, but quite a few people have snagged one over at dpreview.

This gives you a couple hundred to snag a nice lens.

If you're worried about that seller, BH has it for $560.

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

We are looking to spend up to $1000 initially and in the end maybe $1000 more.
We hope to end up with a body in the 10 MP range that has a view finder and live view. She'll also need a standard lens, a telephoto lens and a macro. I imagine at some point she'll want to experiment with filters. She'll also need a good case and a tripod.
Still looking into the stabilization issue but having it in the body seems to be the way to go.

also worth looking at the Sony A300/A350.
Depending upon exactly how you use Liveview it has either the best (fastest AF) or worst implementation (can't be used for critical manual adjustment of focus ) & it has a pivotable screen.
The 10Mp A300 +18-70mm kit is $600 at B&H or with the 18-70mm & the 55-200mm $800.

Try & get to a shop where she can handle the different makes to find what suits her best.