Originally posted by: kyzen
Between the two, I vote the XS. If you increase your budget a bit, I'd suggest the D80 or D90.
Refer to my post in your previous thread for my reasons
As for the Canon kit lens being junk, my 18-55mm IS lens is pretty great, in my non-professional opinion. I couldn't speak to the non-IS version on the old Rebel XT.
Originally posted by: lesch2k
Originally posted by: kyzen
Between the two, I vote the XS. If you increase your budget a bit, I'd suggest the D80 or D90.
Refer to my post in your previous thread for my reasons
As for the Canon kit lens being junk, my 18-55mm IS lens is pretty great, in my non-professional opinion. I couldn't speak to the non-IS version on the old Rebel XT.
the only difference i am aware of with the d60 and d80 is the kit lens changes from 18-55 to 18-120. are there other significant differences?
Originally posted by: gar655
Spend the extra, get "real" camera. Nikon min = D90, D300 better, D700 best.
Canon min = 40D/50D, 5D/5DII better, 1DMkIII best.
Olympus E-3
Pentax K20D
Sony A700/A900
Of course your type of usage will dictate to some extent the body you should get. Sports, weddings, casual, wildlife etc...
Then you need to look at how much the lenses are that you WILL want.
The overall image quality of any of the "crop" sensor cameras are minimal at best. A little difference here or there. There is a pretty large increase in over image quality going to the full frame (35mm) DSLRs with of course the corresponding pretty large increase in price.
There is no free lunch, unless you're a Wall Street investment firm or super large national bank.
Originally posted by: troytime
which one feels better in your hands?
what type of photographer do you plan to be?
Originally posted by: gar655
Spend the extra, get "real" camera. Nikon min = D90, D300 better, D700 best.
Canon min = 40D/50D, 5D/5DII better, 1DMkIII best.
Olympus E-3
Pentax K20D
Sony A700/A900
Of course your type of usage will dictate to some extent the body you should get. Sports, weddings, casual, wildlife etc...
Then you need to look at how much the lenses are that you WILL want.
The overall image quality of any of the "crop" sensor cameras are minimal at best. A little difference here or there. There is a pretty large increase in over image quality going to the full frame (35mm) DSLRs with of course the corresponding pretty large increase in price.
There is no free lunch, unless you're a Wall Street investment firm or super large national bank.
Originally posted by: gar655
Spend the extra, get "real" camera. Nikon min = D90, D300 better, D700 best.
Canon min = 40D/50D, 5D/5DII better, 1DMkIII best.
Olympus E-3
Pentax K20D
Sony A700/A900
Of course your type of usage will dictate to some extent the body you should get. Sports, weddings, casual, wildlife etc...
Then you need to look at how much the lenses are that you WILL want.
The overall image quality of any of the "crop" sensor cameras are minimal at best. A little difference here or there. There is a pretty large increase in over image quality going to the full frame (35mm) DSLRs with of course the corresponding pretty large increase in price.
There is no free lunch, unless you're a Wall Street investment firm or super large national bank.
Originally posted by: gar655
Spend the extra, get "real" camera. Nikon min = D90, D300 better, D700 best.
Canon min = 40D/50D, 5D/5DII better, 1DMkIII best.
Olympus E-3
Pentax K20D
Sony A700/A900
Of course your type of usage will dictate to some extent the body you should get. Sports, weddings, casual, wildlife etc...
Then you need to look at how much the lenses are that you WILL want.
The overall image quality of any of the "crop" sensor cameras are minimal at best. A little difference here or there. There is a pretty large increase in over image quality going to the full frame (35mm) DSLRs with of course the corresponding pretty large increase in price.
There is no free lunch, unless you're a Wall Street investment firm or super large national bank.
"FF" is ~2.33x in sensor area that of a Sony/Nikon APS-C sensor.Originally posted by: extra
"Though their sensors are about 3-4x smaller than a full-frame sensor"
While I completely agree with the rest of your post, I feel I hafta correct this. A 1.5 or 1.6 crop factor camera (what you'll get if you get a nikon or canon crop sensor camera) has a sensor that is more like 2x smaller, not 3 or 4x (size difference in square millimeters)
Originally posted by: extra
Originally posted by: gar655
Spend the extra, get "real" camera. Nikon min = D90, D300 better, D700 best.
Canon min = 40D/50D, 5D/5DII better, 1DMkIII best.
Olympus E-3
Pentax K20D
Sony A700/A900
Of course your type of usage will dictate to some extent the body you should get. Sports, weddings, casual, wildlife etc...
Then you need to look at how much the lenses are that you WILL want.
The overall image quality of any of the "crop" sensor cameras are minimal at best. A little difference here or there. There is a pretty large increase in over image quality going to the full frame (35mm) DSLRs with of course the corresponding pretty large increase in price.
There is no free lunch, unless you're a Wall Street investment firm or super large national bank.
Ughhhhh not this shit again. For an inexpensive camera I'd recommend a canon rebel xsi (it's worth it over the xs) or a used 40d....
The rebel xsi is fantastic. If you took a rebel xsi and a 50d and went out shooting with them your pictures would look the same. The 40/50d models are larger than the 450/1000d and have an extra control dial and offer higher fps. They also offer a bit better auto focus performance. However the xsi is much better than previous rebels in the af performance department. The only thing you miss with the 450d (xsi) is the faster fps shooting. Really.
It isn't like the old rebels, but even the old rebels are great! If you are expecting a tiny hard to see viewfinder because you've played with a cheap dslr in the past (like an olympus 410 or 420 for example) ... you won't find it here...the xsi's looks just as good as the one in the 40/50d. And no, you don't miss out on info in the viewfinder. Yes, the XSI shows you the iso all the time in the viewfinder and you can adjust it without your eye ever leaving it. The xsi has all the metering modes you'll find on the 40/50d cameras.
Except for the extra dial the handling is very similar. The xxD models will fit better in some people's hands, and the xxxD will feel better for others. That, and the need for higher fps if you shoot sports for example should be what you base your purchase on. However, if you grab an XSI (what i'd recommend) remember that you can get an inexpensive grip for it as well
and
"Though their sensors are about 3-4x smaller than a full-frame sensor"
While I completely agree with the rest of your post, I feel I hafta correct this. A 1.5 or 1.6 crop factor camera (what you'll get if you get a nikon or canon crop sensor camera) has a sensor that is more like 2x smaller, not 3 or 4x (size difference in square millimeters)
Originally posted by: troytime
get a used d80 with the 18-135 and don't look back.
the d80 body can be found for 300-400
the lens for 250
DisagreeOriginally posted by: gar655
Spend the extra, get "real" camera. Nikon min = D90, D300 better, D700 best.
Canon min = 40D/50D, 5D/5DII better, 1DMkIII best.
Olympus E-3
Pentax K20D
Sony A700/A900
Of course your type of usage will dictate to some extent the body you should get. Sports, weddings, casual, wildlife etc...
Then you need to look at how much the lenses are that you WILL want.
The overall image quality of any of the "crop" sensor cameras are minimal at best. A little difference here or there. There is a pretty large increase in over image quality going to the full frame (35mm) DSLRs with of course the corresponding pretty large increase in price.
There is no free lunch, unless you're a Wall Street investment firm or super large national bank.
Yeah in body software noise reduction processing. There might be less noise, but a lot less detail too.Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
Originally posted by: gar655
Spend the extra, get "real" camera. Nikon min = D90, D300 better, D700 best.
Canon min = 40D/50D, 5D/5DII better, 1DMkIII best.
Olympus E-3
Pentax K20D
Sony A700/A900
Of course your type of usage will dictate to some extent the body you should get. Sports, weddings, casual, wildlife etc...
Then you need to look at how much the lenses are that you WILL want.
The overall image quality of any of the "crop" sensor cameras are minimal at best. A little difference here or there. There is a pretty large increase in over image quality going to the full frame (35mm) DSLRs with of course the corresponding pretty large increase in price.
There is no free lunch, unless you're a Wall Street investment firm or super large national bank.
Not everyone has or wants to spend the extra $$.
There can be quite a large difference in image quality among crop sensors. Compare the Pntax K10D vs Nikon D90 @ ISO1600 and you will see.
Originally posted by: astroidea
Yeah in body software noise reduction processing. There might be less noise, but a lot less detail too.