Dual Cyrix/Celeron II

[bot2600]

I remember some boards with custom APICs that would run k6 chips in a dual fashion. Wouldn't it be possible to also do this with a Celeron II? With that configuration the CPU itself would not have to be SMP capable. The reason I ask is at this link.

Dual Cyrix Chips in one socket 370 board

Does anyone recognize this board? Do you think it is legitament or do you think it is just a prop picture and is not functional with the 2 VIA chips installed?

Bot

 

[Rand]

The Cyrix 3 wouldnt need a special board to run in SMP support, any regular dual-processor S370 board as long as it has proper BIOS support should be able to run SMP Cyrix 3's as the Cyrix 3 processor is already SMP capable.

The old K6-2 was also fully SMP capable, just their werent any dual-processor S7 boards released with BIOS support for the K6-2. At least not that I know of, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[BurntKooshie]

I believe that AMD (and Cyrix, and possibly IDT) used a differnet MP scheme than the existing Dual Socket 7 Pentiums used, which kinda meant they were out of luck in that category.

 

[MadRat]

Intel used GTL for S7 and Slot-1 SMP. They used GTL+ in the S370 SMP. The GTL-based SMP standards share a bus.

AMD and Cyrix used a point-to-point protocol for SMP. Each CPU requires its own bus.

I assume the APIC is what carries the GTL-standard information.

 

[Keego]

I remember a discussion a very long time ago about this, and I think AMD just didn't want to focus on that market with that cpu. Maybe they didn't have time or money, or noone wanted to work on it. Obviously they were going to have to make the chipset since it was their CPU (unless they wanted to give away all their CPU info to VIA/etc.. isn't some stuff classified?)

 

[ST4RCUTTER]

...isn't some stuff classified

Yes, so stop talking about it or you will be "handled".

We never saw SMP K6-2's because the cost of the mobo would have been high, and at that time AMD had vitually no pull with mobo manufacturers.

 

[Mday]

<< Dual Cyrix Chips in one socket 370 board

Does anyone recognize this board? Do you think it is legitament or do you think it is just a prop picture and is not functional with the 2 VIA chips installed?

Bot >>



the only pic where i see 2 via chips (labels) is this http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/pc/docs/article/20010323/ce2_01.jpg which shows the CPU and core logic chipset.

 

[WoundedWallet]

I think he was talking about this pic http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/pc/docs/article/20010323/ce2_02.jpg

 

[bot2600]

yeah, I should have mentioned that you needed to scroll down (or as wounded wallet did, gave the direct link to the right pic).

Bot

 

[rockhard]

Samuel = no apic = no SMP Via have publicly stated this to ViaHardware.com
Motherboard based a non starter from a cost point of view
Looks like were going to have to wait till the next Samuel incarnation, yeah?

 

[MGMorden]

Dang. I was all excited and then had to get to rockhard's statement. I really want an SMP system for my Linux machine (gotta get those compile times down ) but I can't afford to go all out for Pentium III's. Maybe those Morgan core Duron's will do the trick . . .(though the MP Socket A boards are prohibitively expensive)


EDIT: Even more depressed after seeing a PC Chips SMP Socket 370 board for $70. I know most people think they're crap but $70 mobo + $37 x 2 for C3 700Mhz + $20 for 256mb of ram makes for one heck of a deal.

 

[joohang]

My Thunderbird 1 GHz has no APIC (according to Sandra and WCPUID) but I read reviews of AMD760MP with dual Thunderbird benchmarks.

Can anyone explain this?

 

[joohang]

I would love to get a dual Cyrix 3, if it's a possible configutation.

 

[MadRat]

The APIC is Intel's way of sharing a single data bus. Not all multi-processor boards require APICs, but they simplify the motherboard design because they are using a single data bus. AMD designs use more complicated dedicated data buses for each cpu. This makes an AMD multi-processor platform relatively more expensive. Motherboards from Intel could also use point-to-point coordination of their processors, but its alot more complicated than their GTL+ concept. I don't know the specifics, but the concept sounds pretty simple.

It seemed like I read somewhere that GTL+ is only for a pair of processors, meaning 8-way boards have four data buses. Don't quote me on that. I don't really know that for a fact.

 

[rockhard]

<< My Thunderbird 1 GHz has no APIC (according to Sandra and WCPUID) but I read reviews of AMD760MP with dual Thunderbird benchmarks. >>



Seems that the boards will run two CPU's but some weird things going on due to lack of APIC.
Ive seen benches where the results are worse with two processors rather than 1! Seems the only way to get good benches is to use the MP version of the Athlon 4 which the SMP chipset was designed for.
After seeing those benches, would be a cheaper option to get a Tualatin compatible Pro266 chipset mobo and bang a couple of 1 ghz P3's in there. The benches between the intel and the AMD in SMP makes me wonder if it is really worth the extra money IMO.

 

[MGMorden]

rockhard: Do you have a link to that information on ViaHardware? I can't seem to find it (though I did find a very neat article w/ them building a FlexATX system w/ the Cyrix chip). I think I'm in denial. I really want an SMP system but have no cash .

 

[joohang]

rockhard,

My next SMP system is probably going to be a dual BX (Supermicro P6DBE or Tyan Tiger 100) with dual P3 850.

But if MSI releases a stable AMD760MP board at around US$250-range, I'm going dual Palomino. I emailed them 2 weeks ago and got a reply 2 days ago. They refused to release any information, for some reason. The MSI representative just told me to wait until the board is officially announced.

 

[rockhard]

McGorden - I had a look for the article. It was a preview, but seeing as they have the review up now they must have pulled it. I'll keep looking. If it turns up i'll post the link for you.

I would really like to try putting together a Samuel 3A SMP rig together if only there was a way round it?
MadRat is on the ball, as he states that each processor needs a system bus all to itself as opposed to sharing between two processors one bus (i think i got that right? ) The only way round this would be for an APIC for each processor mounted on the motherboard - allowing the processors to think theyre running on their own bus, when really theyre sharing, masked by the APICS, yeah? This just aint going to happen from a cost and dev' point of view IMO

One thing i did think of though is, how about popping a slot1 to slot2 adaptor on a slot2 motherboard, then popping slockets on them. Its just that i dont know much about slot2 motherboards, but am thinking (errr hoping ) that maybe some of these motherboards may have APICS onboard maybe?
With the Samuel3A being fully compatible as a P2 MMX may this be a long shot that may in theory work as long as you can find the right motherboard with APIC modules?

The idea of a Duron SMP board really rox IMO - who really uses all the power of a SMP 1gig x 2 platform.
Most the time you be wasting cycles. Wasted money.
The thought of the heat output of 2x Durons throws me though. Why the hell didnt AMD die shrink the Duron and make it run cooler?
This would be the ideal cheap SMP platform for me.

joohang - wish you luck with your Intel SMP rig Wish you were going SMP with AMD though Just that we need all the bug testers we can get to iron out all the problems before i go down AMD SMP road

 

[joohang]

<< joohang - wish you luck with your Intel SMP rig Wish you were going SMP with AMD though Just that we need all the bug testers we can get to iron out all the problems before i go down AMD SMP road >>


I don't know about that one either now.

I just played with the Sony SlimTop Tablet PC 10 minutes ago. I fell in love with it right there. I want it so badly now.

 

[MGMorden]

Yeah, looks like I'll be going to Duron route for my smp system. I'll probably be getting a C3 based system anyways. My younger brother will be going off to college next year and needs a new system (he only does web and AIM so a C3 will be fine). Only problem is those dual SocketA boards are looking to be in the $200-$500 range and the dual Socket370 boards are in the $70-$150 range. Big difference. Oh well. Maybe they'll have some budget dual-Athlon boards out.

 

[rockhard]

MGMorden - As much as i'd like you to do the bug testing for me, maybe it be better to wait at least 4 months till the probs are sorted?
I ran in and got the first MSI 694D when it came out - big mistake
This time round gonna let everyone else be the fall guy
Just look at the probs being had with the Tyan K7 Thunder.
This AMD SMP got a lot of maturing to do yet IMO

joohang You sound like me when i got my iPaq, heh, now its a glorified organiser :/

 

[joohang]

<< joohang You sound like me when i got my iPaq, heh, now its a glorified organiser :/ >>


That's another tech toy I gotta buy. Damn it.. I need more $$$.

 

[rockhard]

joohang - Just be careful it doesnt become a nibbles tray for the chix