Dual Shootout at Tomshardware

[MisterDuck]

Eh. Six to one, half-dozen to the next...I think the performance of the two is pretty close (barring several obviously biased benchmarks) and I seriously doubt the price premium of the Intel system justifies the extra performance in those select applications.


I think the best way to look at it is (all prices from Pricewatch.com):

Athlon MP 2000+ (2): $618
MSI K7D Master MS-6501: $212
-------------------------------
TOTAL: $830



Intel Xeon 2200 (2): $1336
Tyan Thunder S2603: $664
-------------------------------
TOTAL: $2000 (!!)



Oy. Maybe I didn't find the best prices, but DAMN - I can think of a LOT of things I could find to spend $1170 to make a computer better. Perhaps from a juvenile perspective that only takes performance into account, yes - the Intel rig clearly "whacked" the AMD machine. From the big picture, I think the AMD box just took a big fat crap all over the Xeon. How a 30% performance increase in several clearly biased applications and an overall "slight" advantage (IE: less than ten percent, and more like five) justifies a 140% increase in cost is beyond me.



Obviously if money is no object, the clear choice is the Intel machine, but seriously - the premium for that performance is completely retarded. Even if money IS no object, you could build TWO of the AMD systems and still have change left over, so I really don't see why you'd even want to bother with the Intel rig.

$1170 is a raid set up with 15k seagates and a pretty swank controller.

 

[AGodspeed]

<<

<< For the cost of a dual xenon rig I could build 2 dual XP rigs. >>


Lets check the facts.

Assumptions:
1) Typical businesses buy pre-built machines.
2) Typical businesses with dual processor machines have a base level that is something like this:

Dual processor (Xeon or Athlon MP)
1GB RAM (RDRAM for Xeon DDR for Athlon MP)
80 GB IDE drive
Matrox G450
Win XP Pro
52x CDROM
Keyboard
Mouse
Floppy
(Assume monitor and other necessary equipment is already available at the business).

Now to be fair, lets compare the prices at the same store. Not many places sell both dual AMD and dual Intel but here is one of them that does.
Dual 2.2 GHz Xeon: $3316
Dual 2000+ MP: $2228 (49% cheaper)
Definately can't get two Athlon systems for the price of one Xeon system.

What if you were on a budget and went for a slightly lower speed?
Dual 2.0 GHz Xeon: $2854
Dual 1900+ MP: $2118 (35% cheaper)
Still I can't see you getting two for the price of one.

Lets see if you went all out and bought a monitor, fast HDs, and fast video card:
-Two 36 GB 15,000 rmp Cheetah X15
-Single Sony G521 21"
-Wildcat II 5110

Dual 2.2 GHz Xeon: $6723
Dual 2000+ MP: $6097 (18% cheaper)
Dual 2.0 GHz Xeon: $7185
Dual 1900+ MP: $5987 (12% cheaper)

Hmm, still can't get two for the price of one... What am I doing wrong? At the fully equiped level the Athlon is 18% less expensive yet performs up to 30% slower (depending on which program your business uses). That means that in this case, Xeon has better price/performance ratio... Guess what? Businesses do this same math when deciding which to purchase: spending 18% more and get 30% speed boost makes Xeons seem quite good.

Note: to get these prices I skimped on the case and powersupply for the Athlons - if I didn't the prices would be even closer.
Note2: these don't include shipping or the price of the specialty software - if I included these the price % difference would be even much smaller. For example scientific computational fluid dynamics software costs an average of about $4000 per machine per year. For the first year of use the last computers listed will cost $10823 and $10087 respecively (a 7% difference). >>

Dullard, the way you're presenting the information is somewhat misleading, but you have some very good points nonetheless.

What you should really ask yourself is how many dual processor systems will a certain business/corporation really need. Obviously it's going to be more than just a single 2P system. Taking your estimated prices of $10823 for a 2P Xeon system and $10087 for a 2P AthlonMP system, we see the price difference is exactly $736.

Medium sized businesses usually buy anywhere between 50-150 "servers" (or workstations, there's beginning to be little difference at this point). Lets say this business buys only 50 2P systems, they would save $36,800 with the AthlonMP setup. For any small to medium sized business, that's a huge savings, especially in the current world-wide economic conditions. If they decided on 150 2P systems instead, it would save them a hefty $110,400. Again, not exactly trivial.

 

[dullard]

<< What you should really ask yourself is how many dual processor systems will a certain business/corporation really need. Obviously it's going to be more than just a single 2P system. Taking your estimated prices of $10823 for a 2P Xeon system and $10087 for a 2P AthlonMP system, we see the price difference is exactly $736.

Medium sized businesses usually buy anywhere between 50-150 "servers" (or workstations, there's beginning to be little difference at this point). Lets say this business buys only 50 2P systems, they would save $36,800 with the AthlonMP setup. For any small to medium sized business, that's a huge savings, especially in the current world-wide economic conditions. If they decided on 150 2P systems instead, it would save them a hefty $110,400. Again, not exactly trivial. >>


My main point though is that no business buys two dual Athlons for the same price as one dual Xeon when including the full computer cost (software + HD + video card + ...) The most I could find is a 50% price increase on a very basic model. I was just trying to limit the excessive exaggerations seen on this thread.

No $110,400 isn't trivial. However, if they happen to use the programs that get the 30% faster results, then $110,400 for a significant upgrade on 150 computers isn't that much. The difference between $1.51 million and $1.62 million is nothing IF that 30% boost gets them enough extra power to let one employee go... And there aren't that many small businesses buying computers in the $million range (medium maybe, large yes). I'm just saying that there are some RARE applications where the overall cost of the Xeons is less (when including employee efficiency gains).

I happen to be in one of the businesses that gets nearly a 30% speed boost. I can be hired to run a simulation and it can take me 3 weeks of computer time on current dual Athlon machine. That 30% boost reduces the time needed to provide the clients answer to 15 days on a dual Xeon. How much more does a dual Xeon cost - about $1000 and I keep the computer forever. How much more can I charge one single client to reduce the time by almost a week - about $500. So after two clients, the extra Xeon cost is easily returned. And every single use after the first two is pure profit. This is RARE but it can happen. Now imagine I was big enough to have 150 dual machines. Take that pure profit times 150 and you'll see a happy Dullard.

 

[Pariah]

"Lets say this business buys only 50 2P systems, they would save $36,800 with the AthlonMP setup."

If I want 50 Intel based systems, I can go to Dell, HP, IBM, Compaq, etc.... Who are you going to to get 50 AMD systems prebuilt, tested and backed with 24-7 tech support? No company is going to give half a million dollars to some no name startup to save some money. You can't piece together the cost of these systems from pricewatch. Workstations and servers like these are not assembled on site but bought as a package with service and support.

 

[BreakApart]

lol.. yep lots of businesses will spend $40,000 to have little billy build 10 dual AMD rigs in his garage. ROFL!

The price difference between a dual Xeon and dual AMD is nothing compared to the real world needs of the company.
-does it have a solid warranty? AMD prebuilt system..nope (3rd tier no-name company)
-does it have a proven reliability track record? AMD...nope
-do the MAJOR pre-built companies offer the system we need? AMD...nope

Personally i think it's great the average joe can afford to build a dual AMD rig.
Then again, i'd never use a system the average joe built.