Dumb question: Why does the President get a special plane instead of a retrofitted military aircraft

[gotsmack]

Dumb question, but it's been bothering me all day.

So the new Presidential aircraft is supposed to cost $2.9 Billion in R&D and this might bring down costs of future military aircraft or it might not.

Why not just retrofit a military aircraft like the P-8 (or C-17) to transport the President?

My thinking is that the airframe has already been strengthened and it already can do mid air refueling. Any new enhancements that have to be done to suit the President can also potentially benefit future military aircraft deliveries of the P-8 (or whatever aircraft platform gets retrofitted).

Thanks in advance for your answers

EDIT: how about a C-17? It's big enough.

 

[DaveSimmons]

This probably belongs in P&N since it's tied to a Trump "post-truth" but Air force one is a much bigger plane.

P8-A:
Crew: Flight: two; Mission: seven
Useful load: 19,800+ lb (9,000+ kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 189,200 lb (85,820 kg)

747-8:
maximum take-off weight of 975,000 lb

Source: wiki

 

[rommelrommel]

Yeah, basically there isn't a suitable airframe in service.

 

[Balt]

Air Force One does a lot more than just move the president and his staff from point A to point B. The president spends a lot of time traveling. A lot. And he needs to be able to do almost everything aboard Air Force One that he could do in the White House. That requires a buttload of electronics. Obviously the P-8 has a lot of them too, but they aren't quite the same thing.

He basically needs a plane that can serve as a mobile command center. It also needs a lot of extra protection and security.

 

[IronWing]

Does the press pool have to buy tickets or do they get a free ride?

 

[sdifox]

Free ride

 

[JulesMaximus]

Air Force One does a lot more than just move the president and his staff from point A to point B. The president spends a lot of time traveling. A lot. And he needs to be able to do almost everything aboard Air Force One that he could do in the White House. That requires a buttload of electronics. Obviously the P-8 has a lot of them too, but they aren't quite the same thing.

He basically needs a plane that can serve as a mobile command center. It also needs a lot of extra protection and security.

This.

And Trump is a dumbfuck.

 

[quackagator]

Trump may be a lot of things but I wouldn't say dumb. Just saying

 

[JulesMaximus]

Trump may be a lot of things but I wouldn't say dumb. Just saying

I would... and I just did.

He's a dumbfuck for tweeting every inane thought that pops into his head. That SNL bit over the weekend was spot on.

 

[Zorba]

Commercial aircraft are far safer than military aircraft and are designed to a completely different set of standards. This is why you use commercial derivatives. The president can and does fly on C-32s (757) and C-40s (737) from time to time, but the 747-8 is far more capable.

The R&D is mostly D, for development for this specific application. Over the baseline 747-8 you have to add EMP shielding (huge cost) so the aircraft will continue to fly during nuclear war. You have missile defense and avoidance. Identify Friend/Foe, tons of new communications and navigation equipment equivalent to the E4-B, mission operation positions for communications staff. With all the new electronics you have to massively increase the cooling systems.

Fully custom VIP interior, with sleeping quarters, office area, and press area, including provisions for classified discussions. VIP features including in-flight luggage retrieval, self contained air stairs, etc.

The current fleet also had some performance improvements over the standard 747-200, so that would be possible here as well. Aerial refueling is probably one of the cheapest mods as its design will likely be very similar to the current VC-25 and/or KC-46.

But at the end of the day, you are doing a ton of design work, and all the crazy certification requirements that come with it, for only three aircraft, so you have nothing else to dilute all those costs over. This is also for the most demanding customer in the world, every employee working on it has to get a clearance, and the aircraft literally has the most expensive paint job in the world.

Finally, the list price of a 747-8 is $378.5M x 3 = 1.13B of the 3.2B total.

Edit: This is just the highlights I can remember off the top of my head and is in the public domain, I assume there is work that is not known to the public as well.

 

[John Connor]

Dumb question: Why does the President get a special plane instead of a retrofitted military aircraft

Because the United States is one of a hand full of nations with a civilian leader that commands the military. i.e. Commander in Chief.

 

[John Connor]

But I digress. If I were President I'd want a mach 2 aircraft and ride around in a F-18 or something.

 

[herm0016]

What Zorba said. Supposedly It even has an nearly fully equipped operating room. A few other things: bio warfare defense measures, rad. Shielding, etc.

 

[sdifox]

A380F would have been boss, but Boeing would bitch til kingdom come.

 

[John Connor]

No... the Dreamliner would have been boss. Fuck Airbus and their asinine Eurotrash cockpit concept where you can't take over manually in an emergency.

 

[Zorba]

A380F would have been boss, but Boeing would bitch til kingdom come.

There is no A380F and why would the president fly around in a freighter?

Regardless Airbus pulled out of the competition on their own. Boeing also said they would cut the price as much as required to not have the president in an Airbus. Northrop looked into buying a A380 or 747-8 and modding it themselves, but I don't think they ended up bidding. Considering Northrop has basically no experience with FAA regulations and they wouldn't have the original engineering for the airframes I predict they would've ended up far more expensive for a subpar product.

 

[MrSquished]

According to Boeing they don't make money on this project, it's about prestige

 

[Balt]

According to Boeing they don't make money on this project, it's about prestige

Makes sense. It's not like they are getting paid to build new planes for the US president every year. Apparently the current ones were built back in 1990. It's a drop in the bucket for Boeing's total revenue.

 

[John Connor]

4 billion? Hmmm.... Someone is smoking crack.

 

[JulesMaximus]

No... the Dreamliner would have been boss. Fuck Airbus and their asinine Eurotrash cockpit concept where you can't take over manually in an emergency.

Meanwhile, half the domestic flights you fly on in this country are on Airbus A320s or some derivative of it. Of course, I'm assuming you have actually been on an airplane at some point in your life.

 

[pauldun170]

The amount would cover R&D + tooling and manufacturing crap + Actual planes + estimated cost of supporting including training, maintenance, flight crew stuff, etc etc over length of the contract.
When they toss out contract numbers, it covers everything plus estimated cost over length of time

The big money is going to be systems\sensors and integration into the platform.

747 platform is probably the only game in town that has the internals to handle massive systems (including anti missile systems, EW + all the fancy top of the line com gear+ aerial refueling, those toilets where you have one button for peeing and another button to handle poops) + people+ meeting range requirements + meeting national security crap.

 

[MrSquished]

Makes sense. It's not like they are getting paid to build new planes for the US president every year. Apparently the current ones were built back in 1990. It's a drop in the bucket for Boeing's total revenue.

yah. and just for a source to that:

"Boeing says it made no money making the last set of Air Force One jets and does not expect to make money on this order, as it is more a matter of prestige. Indeed, Boeing has already announced that it may soon end production of the 747 jet."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-air-force-one-tweet/?utm_term=.6d8b658eecad

 

[Red Squirrel]

4 billion? Hmmm.... Someone is smoking crack.

Yeah that's insane. Somewhere along the line someone is lining their pockets with this one. But that's typical, if it was the plane for a high end CEO or something it would be the same deal. No reason why it needs to be that expensive. It's kinda the same reason enterprise or government stuff is so expensive. "It's for companies they're willing to pay for it!". I remember reading an article on school supplies. Simple things like ball racks for gym class are in the thousands of dollars, but schools need it, so they pay it.

 

[Paratus]

4B sounds about right over the next several years to procure at lest 2 $300-$400M airframes and do all the necessary systems integration. Especially considering all the military communications and electronic warfare gear.

According to family member who interned with Boeing the older Airforce Ones get converted into an E4B the variant the president uses to prosecute a nuclear war.

 

[SKORPI0]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government