Dumb question: Why does the President get a special plane instead of a retrofitted military aircraft

[Zorba]

Yeah that's insane. Somewhere along the line someone is lining their pockets with this one. But that's typical, if it was the plane for a high end CEO or something it would be the same deal. No reason why it needs to be that expensive. It's kinda the same reason enterprise or government stuff is so expensive. "It's for companies they're willing to pay for it!". I remember reading an article on school supplies. Simple things like ball racks for gym class are in the thousands of dollars, but schools need it, so they pay it.

It is 3.2B, not 4, and 1.2B of that is the basic cost of the aircraft, with no interior and no engines. $2B for all the design, qualifications, certification, crew training, modifications, materials, engines, etc for this highly customized aircraft is a steal. It isn't Boeing's fault the AF is only buying three, and therefore not diluting the cost over more copies.

As a reference point, not including charges Boeing spent ~$5B to design the 747-8, which is a derivative of the 747-400.

Edit: Unless you've been through an FAA qualification and certification process before, you really can't fathom the amount of work and money involved.

 

[ElFenix]

Meanwhile, half the domestic flights you fly on in this country are on Airbus A320s or some derivative of it. Of course, I'm assuming you have actually been on an airplane at some point in your life.

Half of domestic flights are regional jets, so you're clearly off.

 

[Red Squirrel]

It is 3.2B, not 4, and 1.2B of that is the basic cost of the aircraft, with no interior and no engines. $2B for all the design, qualifications, certification, crew training, modifications, materials, engines, etc for this highly customized aircraft is a steal. It isn't Boeing's fault the AF is only buying three, and therefore not diluting the cost over more copies.

As a reference point, not including charges Boeing spent ~$5B to design the 747-8, which is a derivative of the 747-400.

Edit: Unless you've been through an FAA qualification and certification process before, you really can't fathom the amount of work and money involved.

Is the plane itself really a billion though? That does seem crazy high. I thought they went for more like several hundred million.

 

[who?]

They also carry food for everybody on the trip and both planes go so if the first one has a failure they've got the backup along.

 

[John Connor]

Yeah that's insane. Somewhere along the line someone is lining their pockets with this one. But that's typical, if it was the plane for a high end CEO or something it would be the same deal. No reason why it needs to be that expensive. It's kinda the same reason enterprise or government stuff is so expensive. "It's for companies they're willing to pay for it!". I remember reading an article on school supplies. Simple things like ball racks for gym class are in the thousands of dollars, but schools need it, so they pay it.

You wouldn't believe the absolute assery with spending here. Thankfully Trump said no freaking way on a 4 billion dollar air force one fleet. (There is more than one) I actually just read today that the Pentagon could save millions, but it was all covered up. God only knows what the black budget is. I just sure hope it's worth it in case we have a major war. The technology we must have that no one knows about... one has to wonder with a budget that big. Come to think of it. The Federation of Scientists website might have some clues as to how big the black budget really is. I say that we must have some crazy technology becuse how many knew we had stealth blackhawk-like helicopters? They used them in the Usama raid. Then one crashed and thankfully the SEALS blew it to hell. Yet asshole Pakistan, that we give millions to invited the Chinese to look at the wreckage. Asshole was in their backyard too! And not in just any old neighborhood, but a neighborhood full of military members. I don't know why we the U.S. gives money to these counties that don't deserve it.


Anyway...

 

[John Connor]

assuming you have actually been on an airplane at some point in your life.

I fly a carrier that KNOWS how to conduct business. And their flight attendants are easy going which says a lot quite frankly. ALL carriers should take note!

I have flown United and Delta and back then Continental.

I collect kiddie airplane wings and Continental is my most prized. It was the first flight I ever took at the ripe old age of 7 years old. It was exactly 100 years after the Jack The Ripper murders in White Chapel. For ten cookies, can you guess what year I flew for the first time? LOL!

 

[sdifox]

There is no A380F and why would the president fly around in a freighter?

Regardless Airbus pulled out of the competition on their own. Boeing also said they would cut the price as much as required to not have the president in an Airbus. Northrop looked into buying a A380 or 747-8 and modding it themselves, but I don't think they ended up bidding. Considering Northrop has basically no experience with FAA regulations and they wouldn't have the original engineering for the airframes I predict they would've ended up far more expensive for a subpar product.

F since you don't need to gut it and build it up again. just build a module almost big enough for the cargo bay and slot it in. Next upgrade can be built outside of the plane and swapped out easily. Modular design for something like this is very helpful.

 

[Zorba]

Is the plane itself really a billion though? That does seem crazy high. I thought they went for more like several hundred million.

They are buying three aircraft, not two, and the basic cost is $385.5M/ea.

 

[Zorba]

F since you don't need to gut it and build it up again. just build a module almost big enough for the cargo bay and slot it in. Next upgrade can be built outside of the plane and swapped out easily. Modular design for something like this is very helpful.

lol. Interiors are customer provided, and in this case it won't be provided. An empty hull will be delivered to the completion center just like on any other VIP jet or STC'ed commercial derivative. Aircraft interiors are always modular, however there are very good reasons you would not fully palatize a VIP aircraft, so putting in the freighter cargo loading system and structure reinforcements makes no sense. Plus like I said, there is no such thing as a A380F.

A freighter would also have a main deck cargo door and no passenger windows. No provisions for lavatories or galleys outside of the supernumerary area. And would have a 9G crash barrier installed. Finally, the freighter's basic cost is higher than the passenger version.

Edit: The freighter would also not have any passenger/service/exit doors/hatches except for the crew door.

 

[sdifox]

lol. Interiors are customer provided, and in this case it won't be provided. An empty hull will be delivered to the completion center just like on any other VIP jet or STC'ed commercial derivative. Aircraft interiors are always modular, however there are very good reasons you would not fully palatize a VIP aircraft, so putting in the freighter cargo loading system and structure reinforcements makes no sense. Plus like I said, there is no such thing as a A380F.

A freighter would also have a main deck cargo door and no passenger windows. No provisions for lavatories or galleys outside of the supernumerary area. And would have a 9G crash barrier installed. Finally, the freighter's basic cost is higher than the passenger version.

Edit: The freighter would also not have any passenger/service/exit doors/hatches except for the crew door.

I like the idea of dropping the load while in flight :awe:

 

[Zorba]

I like the idea of dropping the load while in flight :awe:

That would be a nice feature.

 

[nakedfrog]

Trump may be a lot of things but I wouldn't say dumb. Just saying

I would... and I just did.

He's a dumbfuck for tweeting every inane thought that pops into his head. That SNL bit over the weekend was spot on.

Definitely. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I'm going to continue to think he's dumb.

The R&D is mostly D, for development for this specific application. Over the baseline 747-8 you have to add EMP shielding (huge cost) so the aircraft will continue to fly during nuclear war. You have missile defense and avoidance. Identify Friend/Foe, tons of new communications and navigation equipment equivalent to the E4-B, mission operation positions for communications staff. With all the new electronics you have to massively increase the cooling systems.

Fully custom VIP interior, with sleeping quarters, office area, and press area, including provisions for classified discussions. VIP features including in-flight luggage retrieval, self contained air stairs, etc.

The current fleet also had some performance improvements over the standard 747-200, so that would be possible here as well. Aerial refueling is probably one of the cheapest mods as its design will likely be very similar to the current VC-25 and/or KC-46.

But at the end of the day, you are doing a ton of design work, and all the crazy certification requirements that come with it, for only three aircraft, so you have nothing else to dilute all those costs over. This is also for the most demanding customer in the world, every employee working on it has to get a clearance, and the aircraft literally has the most expensive paint job in the world.

Finally, the list price of a 747-8 is $378.5M x 3 = 1.13B of the 3.2B total.

Edit: This is just the highlights I can remember off the top of my head and is in the public domain, I assume there is work that is not known to the public as well.

Holy crap, someone commenting on the matter that actually has an understanding of the subject!

 

[Humpy]

Why would you need an airplane or a White House or any of that shit when you can simply tweet from your apartment?

Americans are dumb.

 

[SKORPI0]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...e-flying-White-House/articleshow/45940937.cms

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Is the plane itself really a billion though? That does seem crazy high. I thought they went for more like several hundred million.

An airframe isn't certified until the paperwork outweighs the plane. It costs a phenomenal amount of scratch to get a custom plane off the ground, especially one as complex as this.