Question Dumb questions about my Ryzen 3900x.

[Tarvaln]

Goal: Test my Boost Clock speeds. Also, figure out why my core numbers are different with each test type.
I'm a little confused about some numbers I'm getting with Ryzen Master and Prime95.
Here are my numbers:
08/20/2019 CPU Blend 4.00Mhz TOP:4050 all cores (76 degrees)
FFT Smallest 3.65Mhz all cores (83 degrees)
FFT Small 3.54Mhz all cores (80 degrees)

So, why do my cores run slower if I'm not hitting higher temps between FFT smallest vs small?
Also, Can you test your boost clock with Prime95? I couldn't find anything for it but, I don't know the program well. If not how do you test it?
I *thought* the CPU was being throttled as temp for closer to 95C. Would a better cooler help keep my cores at 3.8?

I could be doing things wrong. I'm new to using Ryzen Master and testing cores.
Thanks in advance for any advice.

Picture of Ryzen Master/CPU-Z incase I have something wrong.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I have tested Prime95 Small FFTs pretty extensively on my 3900x. Take my findings with a grain of salt since my motherboard makes it . . . difficult to get decent boost speeds at stock (which is why I do not bother with boost unless I am just being lazy).

The trick for me to get high clockspeeds in Prime95 was to fiddle with LLC, of all things. Auto wasn't very productive, but "Normal" (which is LLC off or LLC 0) made my default boost scores higher. If I wanted to use PBO and get better clockspeeds, I would have to set higher LLC. LLC Turbo (which is . . . LLC5?) gave me the best results with PBO. Bear in mind that boost clocks are not always indicative of performance! Clock stretching can happen, or your monitoring software may be picking up transient clocks.

As far as cooling goes, yes, your CPU should respond positively to better cooling. Bone stock my 3900x approaches 3.77 GHz in Small FFTs. I can goad it into hitting around 4050 MHz using PBO + Turbo LLC. Or I can just set static clocks of 4250 MHz and make it run with about 1.25v which is the ideal solution for Prime95 at high clocks. That's all with custom water that is . . . kinda overboard.

Also, what motherboard are you using? If you have VRM current limit/switching frequency options, you can do some interesting things to promote stability.

 

[Kenmitch]

The clocks are limited by the 5 items shown in the top of Ryzen Master. You'll see in the image you've hit the EDC limit.

You're using the default OC setting in Ryzen Master. If you select precision boost overdrive in one of the profiles and apply it you'd get more boost. You'll hit the temp limit next most likely with higher clocks.

What cooler do you have? In the image the temps are getting up there already so more boost would have even higher temps.

What are your intended uses for your rig? Seems silly to use Prime95 if your intended uses aren't gonna be similar.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The clocks are limited by the 5 items shown in the top of Ryzen Master. You'll see in the image you've hit the EDC limit.

You're using the default OC setting in Ryzen Master. If you select precision boost overdrive in one of the profiles and apply it you'd get more boost. You'll hit the temp limit next most likely with higher clocks.

Not necessarily. Using auto LLC, enabling PBO lowered my Prime95 clocks. I had to go up to Turbo LLC to get more boost with PBO. Different board, different behavior . . . but it bears mentioning nevertheless.

 

[Tarvaln]

Thanks for the quick responses.
My mobo is a Asus Prime x570 Pro. I picked it up based on this review. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-prime-x570-pro/
And I am running the stock cooler that came with the 3900x.

I would be using my PC for Unity, Video, Audio, Image Editing, and gaming.

I'm not worried about OC'ing my CPU as much as I just want to get out of it what AMD says I should be getting. I just don't know how to test for that. I read and somewhat understood this article https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-3000-turbo-boost-frequency-analysis,6253.html
So, I want to see how much of a boost I get standard. And, I could also not understand that article fully. So, any clarification would be great.

I've just used Ryzen Master to view the cores. I haven't set anything through it that I know of. I'd rather do my settings through the bios if possible.

 

[Tarvaln]

Chart of my test. Don't understand why I'm getting diminishing returns when it seems like I'm give the CPU more room power wise. In all test the CPU continues to throttle down the longer the test. Even if temps are fine.
Ryzen Master: Setting PBO to "Auto" and "Motherboard" has opened up the TDC and EDC but I'm not getting better results.

 

[lopri]

Different workloads pushes the CPU to different degrees. It is more difficult to handle heavier loads and the CPU will slow down to save itself from exhaustion. Not only that, the board's power delivery system will also lose efficiency over time under load, which can affect the CPU frequency. The hotter the VRM, the less efficient it becomes. A hotter VRM will supply less power to the CPU while taking in more power from the PSU, which in turn heats itself up some more. It becomes a vicious downward spiral until an equilibrium is reached.

Installing a better cooling system will move that point upward and certainly boost the frequency and performance. Otherwise your system looks normal to me.

 

[lopri]

Oh, and I do not think you can "find" a boost clock with Prime95. As a matter of fact, there is no fixed boost clock with Ryzen 3000. This stirred up a small controversy on this board earlier.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Ryzen Master: Setting PBO to "Auto" and "Motherboard" has opened up the TDC and EDC but I'm not getting better results.

Welcome to Ryzen 3000! This is why I abandoned PBO and went for static clocks instead. Bear in mind that Prime95 is not really a good application for profiling stability except in other nearly-pure AVX2 workloads.

 

[Kenmitch]

Ryzen Master: Setting PBO to "Auto" and "Motherboard" has opened up the TDC and EDC but I'm not getting better results.

Did you do that in the uEF if so those two setting alone don't really do anything in the end. There will be multiple settings lurking in the uEFI that need changed to get PBO working. I'm sure it's doable in the end, but it's trial and error to get it working like the one click solution in Ryzen Master. I say this out of experience and frustration trying to do it the old school way. If you did change them in the uEFI I'd suggest changing them back to their default settings.

Ryzen Master is the easiest way to test PBO on and off to see how your chip responds. Select a profile and make sure PBO is selected in it and hit apply and your done. They didn't call it Master for nothing. If you want to try a static OC use a profile in Ryzen Master and set it to manual and select clocks and then set the voltage to something reasonable before hitting apply.

Example: Using a Ryzen Master profile and changing all core to 4200 MHz and hitting apply without changing the voltage to something reasonable like 1.35v's will instantly reboot your rig as it'll apply what is showing currently. Using a voltage that's not quite high enough and it'll freeze.

Alter and save the profiles to what you like. Apply the one you want after booting up is the easiest way to do AMD's current offerings. Change profiles on the fly in the OS. The only one that requires a reboot is if you select the ECO mode. I'm sure you can accomplish the same in the uEFI if you really want to spend the time figuring it out, but why go thru the trouble.

The hard part switching to the new AMD platform is forgetting what we've done in the past. AMD took care of the dirty work with Ryzen Master, but we tend to ignore it and try and do it ourselves.

 

[Tarvaln]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I did my settings through Ryzen Master this time. It's so odd for years not to use a windows tweaking program and now, it's the only thing that seems to work. I've played around with it a bit more and ran some Cinebench R20 and CPU-Z test. Tried it with PBO or AOC enabled but my numbers seemed about the same.

Cinebench R20 - M:6787 S:506
CPU-Z - M:7900.4 S:528.4
All Core Mhz AVG - 3.9
TOP CORE Mhz (# of) - 4342 (1), 4077 (1), 3944 (10)
Temp C - 86

I'll pick up a better cooler when there's a good sale. I was thinking of a air cooler since my case is older and I have issues with my GPU radiator/fan.

I will say, I am a bit disappointed that none of my cores hit 4.6 with stock as advertised.

 

[Kenmitch]

I will say, I am a bit disappointed that none of my cores hit 4.6 with stock as advertised.

Your MB may have shipped with a borked uEFI which won't boost correctly. Have you checked for a update yet? CPUZ will show the current version on the motherboard tab.

 

[Tarvaln]

I'm using ver 1005 for my MB. It is the latest version with AGESA 1.0.0.3 Patch ABB. Which I believe is the latest version of AGESA.

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-X570-PRO/HelpDesk_BIOS/

 

[Tarvaln]

Did some more testing. I can't get any of my cores to hit 4.6Mhz at any time. These are the best numbers I could get out of 3 test per setting. I tested after midnight so the room is cool and let the PC cool for 10 minutes between each set of test. All on stock cooler.

As stated above, MB is Asus Prime x570 Pro. BIOS 1005 with AGESA 1.0.0.3 Patch ABB. https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-X570-PRO/HelpDesk_BIOS/

 

[Kenmitch]

Did some more testing. I can't get any of my cores to hit 4.6Mhz at any time. These are the best numbers I could get out of 3 test per setting. I tested after midnight so the room is cool and let the PC cool for 10 minutes between each set of test. All on stock cooler.

As stated above, MB is Asus Prime x570 Pro. BIOS 1005 with AGESA 1.0.0.3 Patch ABB. https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-X570-PRO/HelpDesk_BIOS/
View attachment 10004

Does your MB have the USB flashback feature? Have you tried any other uEFI versions to see if it exhibits the same behavior? uEFI versions can effect the maximum boost it looks like.

MSI launched a beta 1.0.0.3abb(beta) uEFI for my x570 MB and I tested it. Boost was OK, but it didn't like my b-die memory for some reason. They borked it pretty good it looks like. I used USB flashback and reverted back to the previous version I was running which I didn't have any issues with. I was looking for that last 25 MHz of boost I guess, but on a good note once I flashed back I've noticed my max boost is hitting 4400 MHz on 3-4 cores now. I disabled SMT on my 3700x to do a CB R20 run by request and forgot to enable it again so that might by why? I did surf the web and played some Shadow of the Tomb Raider and noticed no performance difference so with SMT disabled so I didn't bother to enable it again at that time. I'll have to enable it tonight to see how the boost goes.

 

[Tarvaln]

I don't think it has a flashback feature. Haven't tried rolling back the BIOS. Also, I think this might be an issue with just the 3900x. I don't have a different 3000x core to test it with though. I've been reading a lot of reviews and most of them focus on the 3600x and 3800x. Some Motherboards have issues with Max Boost for those processors but most can hit it. The 3900x seems to have issues across most MB's. I couldn't find a review or investigation of it. Most of it is from forums.

 

[Stevae]

Not sure if this ever got resolved or not, but here are a few comments in the case that it hasn't. First, IF you are using an X570 mobo, the vrm's are NOT going to be the problem. On those mobo's they will NOT heat up enough to stop your oc. Second, IF you put your own system together, make sure you plugged the cpu cooler into the cpu fan header and not a different one. Many people have made this mistake, and it displays higher temps at lower clocks. Lastly, Make sure you have a cpu cooler which is a combo with the clocks you are trying to reach. A good 280mm AIO will do the trick with almost any Ryzen 3000 chip. Also, nobody likes to think they lost the silicon lottery, but it happens. So there's always that... Hope this helps!