Duplicity in religion

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Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
God didn't invent religion and the bible specifically blasts it. Stop going to church, your eyes are open.

Since we are quoting Ghandi -"Be the change you want to see in the world."
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
well duh.all one needs to do is look at how higher ups in teh church live.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
God didn't invent religion and the bible specifically blasts it. Stop going to church, your eyes are open.

Since we are quoting Ghandi -"Be the change you want to see in the world."

You have to look at it pretty damn loosely to say god didn't invent religion. He only directed several people to believe and do what he wanted them to do. Or are you trying to say that everyone in the bible is just talking bullshit, but they happen to be right?
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
You have to look at it pretty damn loosely to say god didn't invent religion. He only directed several people to believe and do what he wanted them to do. Or are you trying to say that everyone in the bible is just talking bullshit, but they happen to be right?

There was the law of God, and the law of Moses. One seems like reasonable requests to satisfy peace and love. The other seems unreasonable even to most Christians. Yet very few are willing to say Moses was wrong.
 

AMCRambler

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2001
7,701
26
91
You're right. The teachings of Christ were to give up all your material possessions to the poor. Of course in doing so, you become poor yourself. So at that point are you eligible to get someone else's shit? I didn't really understand that part either. I guess Jesus was a communist?

Edit: Hehe, I knew I wasn't the first one to figure this out lol

 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
Sane people will only believe the parts of their religion that are convenient to believe. The people who live by the letter of the word are the crazy ones. Seeing so many people disregarding their religion actually gives me some hope for humanity.
 
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Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
3,642
0
0
Matthew 7:3-5

King James Version (KJV)


3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
There was the law of God, and the law of Moses. One seems like reasonable requests to satisfy peace and love. The other seems unreasonable even to most Christians. Yet very few are willing to say Moses was wrong.

You can try splitting hairs, but the basis of the religion had to have come down from god or be wrong. You can't have a religion that's "right" unless it was invented by god.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
You can try splitting hairs, but the basis of the religion had to have come down from god or be wrong. You can't have a religion that's "right" unless it was invented by god.

The misconception is that any religion has to be right for God to exist. All religions are man-made. You certainly don't need a religion to believe.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,808
10,343
136
I'm sitting in church one day listening to the sermon. At the core of the story of this particular teaching of Christ was a message of anti-materialism. Then it hit me. Jesus Christ's teachings were all basically rooted in the rejection of the material (much like Buddha - IMHO.) Then I walk out into the parking lot and find myself surrounded by Mercedes, Lincolns, Lexus, BMW, Hummer... All driven by people who will go home to their McMansions filled with frivolous items.

I find it very laughable that these people take their religion seriously enough to visit church every week, wear gold chains with the crucifix around their necks, profess up and down how they're proud of their Christianity and yet completely reject it's core teachings. Why even bother? The guy they're all praising every week completely sacrificed all things material while suggesting that his followers do the same and at the same time they worship the material world. If these people really believed in the religion they pretend to practice they'd donate more to the needy and live more modest lives. Now there's some duplicity for you.

why cant these people enjoy the fruits of their labors? maybe they donate more to charity than you make in a year? how would you know?

as much as a hate the televangelist guys like joel osteen, i saw a short interview where he said all of his money comes from his books - every single dollar through his church goes to his church/charity.

so in that respect, why is it wrong for joel osteen to be successful? it isnt. i bet the man is more charitable than most.
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
If one were to truly commit themselves to the teachings of christ, they'd emulate his teachings in their lifestyle so it's a reasonable observation so say that anything beyond the economic line of "destitution" is greed and therefore completely contradictory. Anything beyond that line should be shared with their "brothers" who at this point comprise a never ending void of wealth. There would never be a point at which the aggregate standard of living were raised to the point of the opulence that most christians enjoy now, so all these christians would be forced to essentially live a lower midle class lifestyle in our modern society to abide to the teachings of the christ. This level of commitment is untenable for 99.9999% of christians, but they want the benefits of christianity (social and "spiritual" affirmation, not burning in "hell", etc.) Instead, they live a superficially christian life that only requires them to announce their commitment through spoken or written word and maybe sacrifice 10% of their wealth to the CHURCH (tithe.) This 10% is what opulent christian point too when absolving themselves of their greed.

All the while, your average christian will condemn anything and everything that doesnt conform to their skewed view of "righteousness" even going as far to claim that anything less will result in a person being condemned to an eternity of agony. Honestly, if it weren't for this element I could excuse christians for their very human self serving, greedy narrow mindedness but this blatant hypocrisy manifests itself in ways that deteriorate the lives of everyone around them (e.g. infusing their beliefs into government.) This is why christian evangelism is a cancer on civilization.

Of course sentiments like this are like shouting at the wind; either preaching to the choir or inciting hateful obtuseness. So as much fun as debates like this should be, pondering the mix of our human stupidity and the mysteries of the universe, ultimately it's a waste of time at best and needlessly brings people down at worst.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Or that they say we are given free will which is why bad things happen but when good things happen it's their god's doing. Makes no sense.
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
76
So as much fun as debates like this should be, pondering the mix of our human stupidity and the mysteries of the universe, ultimately it's a waste of time at best and needlessly brings people down at worst.

By your logic.. everything we do is a waste of time. What should we humans do.. to make good use of our time? Spread the word of god?

That seems more of a waste of time than trying to solve scientific mysteries. We would still be living in caves.. draped in leaves, if not for a few who "wasted" their lives.
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
By your logic.. everything we do is a waste of time. What should we humans do.. to make good use of our time? Spread the word of god?

That seems more of a waste of time than trying to solve scientific mysteries. We would still be living in caves.. draped in leaves, if not for a few who "wasted" their lives.

No, I guess I didnt convey clearly what I meant. What I consider a waste of time is trying to rationalize with the religious.

Had a conversation recently with a decent, intelligent guy and the conversation drifted into matters of science and faith. He's a new earth creationist which to me is absolutely insane, but to him it was a scientifically elegant and all encompassing explanation to all of the mysteries of the universe.

When asked how he explains the stars in the sky we see that are in essence photons colliding with our retinas after traveling millions of light YEARS his answer was when god created the universe he did so in a mature state. Meaning creation just popped into existence with those photons being in route. How the hell do you have a serious conversation with someone like this?
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
When asked how he explains the stars in the sky we see that are in essence photons colliding with our retinas after traveling millions of light YEARS his answer was when god created the universe he did so in a mature state. Meaning creation just popped into existence with those photons being in route. How the hell do you have a serious conversation with someone like this?

Ah, last thrusdayism at it's finest.
 

AreaCode707

Lifer
Sep 21, 2001
18,440
101
91
OP is trolling
OP is not trolling. He is exactly right.

Matthew 19

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Jesus calls out that perfection requires perfect selflessness, and if you are attempting to get into heaven via perfection the disciples correctly called out that you are totally screwed (and Jesus does not disagree with them.) Jesus' rather cagey response that with God all things are possible points to his future sacrifice of death and resurrection in our place, that you can be saved through God's grace rather than through perfection.

That doesn't make a church parking lot full of fancy cars the right thing to do. Jesus goes on to demonstrate how someone who puts their own material wants and needs last is working towards more permanent rewards.
 
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Eos

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2000
3,473
16
81
why cant these people enjoy the fruits of their labors? maybe they donate more to charity than you make in a year? how would you know?

as much as a hate the televangelist guys like joel osteen, i saw a short interview where he said all of his money comes from his books - every single dollar through his church goes to his church/charity.

so in that respect, why is it wrong for joel osteen to be successful? it isnt. i bet the man is more charitable than most.

Yes, how would you know? Oh, that's right. You wouldn't. You need to be more consistent...
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,808
10,343
136
Yes, how would you know? Oh, that's right. You wouldn't. You need to be more consistent...

the word "bet" means that "i'm guessing the guy is more charitable than most."

god forbid we make guesses or have opinions :roll:
 

Eos

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2000
3,473
16
81
the word "bet" means that "i'm guessing the guy is more charitable than most."

god forbid we make guesses or have opinions :roll:

That's not what I was trying to get across.

You affirmed that the other poster isn't able to pass judgement on church folks who drive high end vehicles because he doesn't know what they do with their money outside of church. Yet, it's okay for you to make a judgement about Osteen regarding his charitable donations.

Inconsistency.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,808
10,343
136
That's not what I was trying to get across.

You affirmed that the other poster isn't able to pass judgement on church folks who drive high end vehicles because he doesn't know what they do with their money outside of church. Yet, it's okay for you to make a judgement about Osteen regarding his charitable donations.

Inconsistency.

and you'll see i prefaced my jdugement based on an interview i saw with joel osteen.

whereas the OP made a jdugement based on the cars he saw people driving. a bit different, no?

in this case, the OP made a judgement with no knowledge. i made one with some, however small.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
and you'll see i prefaced my jdugement based on an interview i saw with joel osteen.

whereas the OP made a jdugement based on the cars he saw people driving. a bit different, no?

in this case, the OP made a judgement with no knowledge. i made one with some, however small.

Jesus doesn't teach it's ok as long as you give away a fraction of your wealth greater than what most people make. He teaches give away everything and follow him. The camel through the eye of a needle thing wasn't an overstatement on the difficulty.
 

Eos

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2000
3,473
16
81
and you'll see i prefaced my jdugement based on an interview i saw with joel osteen.

whereas the OP made a jdugement based on the cars he saw people driving. a bit different, no?

in this case, the OP made a judgement with no knowledge. i made one with some, however small.

You can't assume he is charitable more than others based on his comments. Aren't his viewers sending their money to the church already? Osteen stating all of that donated money goes to his church is kind of like saying, "I breathe to supply my blood with oxygen." Yeah, of course you do.

What % of his personal AGI does Osteen donate to charity? That's the real question.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
0
I'm currently conducting a study on the average intelligence of religious people. Since that's a huge topic I narrowed it down to people who go to Church, Temple, or Mosque more than 1 time a week. So far my data supports the following:

2-3 times a week: Borderline retarded
4-5 times a week: Having an affair with church official
6-7 times a week: Toilet at home not working
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
I'm currently conducting a study on the average intelligence of religious people. Since that's a huge topic I narrowed it down to people who go to Church, Temple, or Mosque more than 1 time a week. So far my data supports the following:

2-3 times a week: Borderline retarded
4-5 times a week: Having an affair with church official
6-7 times a week: Toilet at home not working

lmao
 
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