Duron+mobo or Celeron+ram?

[monotone]

I'm intended on bying a little "upgrade-kit" for my aging 450A, however i'm having a hard time deciding between these to setups:

First: My current system (feel free to laugh)

Abit BX6
300A @ 450 2.1 volt (oem i got for free)
GlobalWin FAB28
2x64MB LGS -7J
TNT2 M64 32MB (I know, but I don't play games much anymore)
Soundblaster Live! Value
AverMedia TvCapture 98
Adaptec AHA-1510 SCSI controller for my CD-R (ISA)
IBM DTTA-14GXP 14.4GB
Quantum 15GB Harddrive ???
Aopen 40x
Matsushita 4x2 CD-R Nope, nothing wrong with your eyes! That's 4x read 2x write, no CD-RW
Enlight 7230 Miditower 230W PSU Might not be enough for the duron?

NOTE: Since we don't use dollars where I live, I've re-calculated the prices using the latest rate of exchange.

Option 1: The Duron

Abit KT7 $172 Need the ISA so MSI and ASUS are out of the question
Duron 650 $73
GlobalWin FOP38 $36
Shipping $9
Total $290 This is the absolute maximum money I can crape together

Option 2: The Celery

Celeron 600 in-a-box $103 In-a-box since the are generally better quality (or used to be)
GlobalWin FOP38 $36
Apacer 128MB PC133 $84
Abit Slotket $19
Shipping $9
Total $251 This is a more comforting price

So what do you guys think?

 

[Viperoni]

The Duron will smoke the Celeron like there's no tommorrow...but your PS will likely not be good enough.
You calculated a rather high price on the KT7 though...

 

[GaryTcs]

The Duron is the better setup. Your a little high on the fop38, too. Here's what I get price-wise.

KT7- $131 shipped
FOP38- $27.50 shipped
Duron 650- $55 shipped
300w P/S- $~30

Total- 243.50

Still about $50 less than your estimate. The thing is, that for around 40 bucks, you can get very close to 1ghz, if not more, and still whoop-ass on the Celeron even at same clock speed. (Also, the FOP32 is about $10 less with minimal loss in cooling, and a lot less noise.)Good luck on either system.

 

[monotone]

Updated:

Remember that it can't order from the states, as i would have to 25% tax on the goods.

Also, i'm trying to order it all from the same place since shipping can be a b*tch

Found a new place where I could get what i need (almost):

Abit KT7 $166
Duron 650 $72
Golden Orb $16 No GlobalWin
Shipping $11
Total $265

There still could be that power supply issue, allthough i have run tons of stuff on it in the past without any problems (2 hd's (one a bigfoot), 2 cd-rom drives, a cd-r (scsi), tv capture card, netcard, videocard, soundcard, four case fans (2 in front 2 in back), small side intake fans, an extra fan at the videocard (might have left soemthing out).

I'm really aiming for 900+ with both cpu's. How much slower would a Celeron be compared to a Duron?

 

[GaryTcs]

Its not impossible that your P/S would power the duron, so you could wait and see. My 250w does just fine. Toms has an Excellent article on how the Duron basically bitch-slaps the celeron around at same speeds.

And now you are down to $14 difference in the price! Do you really need to worry about that $14? If so, then you should keep the current Celeron, and get a Duron/DDR motherboard after the new year.

 

[paulip88]

If you want the cheap upgrade, then you can go for just the Celeron. However, the Duron will be MUCH faster. How much faster? Well, a Cel 766 runs about as fast as a Duron 600. In other words, the Duron really smacks it around.

Aside from MSI, Asus, Abit, have you checked out some of the other boards like the Epox? That one might be a bit cheaper. Don't know if it has ISA though.

 

[jsbush]

My duron 600 overclocked to 1000 ran just fine on a 235watt powersuppy.

 

[JimMc]

A Duron is faster at most things, but not all. The speed difference is only important in some areas, i.e. 3d gaming, and whether you have a vid card that can keep up with your CPU in that case. Really depends on what you do with it.

You've included new RAM in the Celery case, but not Duron--that doesn't make any sense. All you need to run the celery is updated BIOS, a MSI Master and a retail 600 or 633. US Prices would be about $12 for the slocket and $90 for the CPU. Many, but not all,, run 900+ just fine with the retail HS/F.

 

[kylebisme]

the epox has one isa slot, and is a damn stable board at a good price.

 

[maxSe]

A few things consider, IMO...

CII600 would be very cost effective, but you have to consider that you may or may not be able to hit 900, whereas it's almost guaranteed to achieve 900 out of a Duron 650 (but, you really should use something other than the Gorb).

I also agree with Snowman on the Epox mobo. I have the 8KTA+ which I got for around $100 and it has 1 ISA slot you need. To my amazement, (this was my FIRST experience with ANY Epox brand) she is very stable and reliable (even more so than KT7, IMO & yes, I had both).

Also, either way you decide, I really think upgrading your PSU to a nice 300W would be a wise decision.

Happy shopping!

 

[monotone]

JimMc: The reason i included the ram in the celery option was to approach the same price as the duron option.

Maybe it's time for a little pros and cons:

1: The Celery - The practical choice?
Pros: Cheaper since i don't need a new motherboard. I could save money to be used on some more ram (256mb would be nice).

Cons: Somewhat slower than the duron at the same clockfrequency. Based on what i've read, maybe 5-20% depending on what you're doing. Multiplier can't be un-locked. If 900 is a no go, i would run it at 675 (9x75), since my other parts can't run at a 83mhz bus speed. 675mhz would be crap!

2: The Duron - The interesting choice
Pros: Faster than the celery. Multiplier can be un-locked, which means easier and "cleaner" overclock. ATA66, and AGP4X on new motherboard (not a big deal). New mobo means more to play with! I would be able to sell the old one.

Cons: It cost more, so i wouldn't be able to afford more ram.


With my current graphics card it wouldn't matter much with one got (expect for the more ram of the celery option).

I'm leaning more towards the Duron option right now. I've been scouring the net reading mostly motherboard and cooler reviews, and here and some thoughts:

From what i've read the golden orb will be enough cooling (as maxSe also pointed out), i'm looking at the super orb (will need to file the heatsink to make it fit), or the FOP32. I can buy a super orb locally for $30, or order a FOP-32 with the other stuff for $34. Which one would you all prefer?

That would amount to about $271 for either solution, allthough i haven't given up completelly on the celery option just yet.

As for motherboards, i might "settle" with a Epox EP-8KTA+ since it's about $15 cheaper.

I could always run the cd-roms/hard-drives off a second powersupply until i could crape together the money for a 300w. Finally there could be a use for the old 386 PSU i have somewhere

 

[JimMc]

If you decide to go Duron, and that is not a bad decision, I'd go with a MSI 6330 Pro2 & a Taisol HS/F or a chrome orb (not the GORB). You've got a fair amount of stuff running on that PS, but who knows. Good luck.

 

[TimeKeeper]

I switched from C2-533@800 to T-bird 750@1000, be honest w/ you, I really don't see much improvement, not until I switch to all SCSI for HEAVY computing.

If I were you, I'd simply buy a C2 @ 100mhz FSB from sale forum. (roughly speaking C2-566@850 + slotket + Gorb = $90 shipped)
Get another stick of RAM

and wait for DDR to mature.

 

[Rigoletto]

Your sums are wrong, monotone.
Your 600-to-be has a 10x multiplier which you won't change. Running at 75FSB works and is therefore 750MHz.
I used to get odd figures like a Celeron900 going like a Tbird 600. The 950 goes like a PIII800E. If you compromise and say a Celeron900 is like a Duron 700 (with plenty of unused room to overclock!) you'll see the celeron is a poor performer. Relatively speaking.

 

[monotone]

Uhm... 10x66mhz = 600mhz ???? I'm sure the 600 has a 9x multiplier, hence 9x75 = 675mhz = slow box

 

[JimMc]

I believe his sums are correct--a 600 uses a multiplier of 9. 9X75=675.

 

[jsbush]

Just a though, why don't you buy your hardware from someone on the Sale/Trade forum? All you need to do is ask them to send it as a gift and I don't think that there will be any customs.

 

[Dennis]

Just got my Duron 600 (guaranteed to O/C to 1Ghz), Kt7 & Monster heatsink/fan from The overclockerz store. It replaced a Celery 300a @ 450 on an Abit BM6...The difference is amazing! Windows ME boots up in NO time compared to the fresh install of ME on the BM6, everything is almost instant!

Specs

Duron 600 @ 1010Mhz
Abit KT7
128MB PC133 (cheap stuff, runs CAS3 with all other memory timings set to most aggressive)
Voodoo3 2000 (don't laugh)
Seagate 13.6GB 7200rpm ATA Barracuda (IDE)
Maxtor 30GB Diamond Max Plus 40 (IDE)
Ricoh 24x/6x/4x CD-RW (SCSI)
Panasonic 24x CD-ROM (SCSI)
Cheap-ass sound card
LAN card

That's about it...I was also considering a Celery, but just couldn't bring myself to buy it with the improved performance of the Duron staring me in the face.

Dennis

 

[monotone]

Well... Thanks for all or your input. I've decided to go with the duron.

I'm still looking into the possibilities of ordering abroad. As far as i can tell i can order in the EU without paying extra, if the prices include VAT. I've looked at some UK sites but it's about the same prices as locally. Ordering outside the EU is expensive. If i for example buy for a total sum of $100. and the shipping is $12, then the final price i'll have to pay is ~ $155 instead of $112.

I might buy some or all of the components at the trade/sell forum, if i can find acceptable prices/products/etc .

I've decided on the Abit KT7, since it allows overclocking through the bios (and knowing me i'll probably use it a lot), and an ISA slot. The is still the matter of the cooler, the FOP-32 would be my first choice since it's not to noisy, and it's not to heavy, and it doesn't need modding like the super orb. If i have to i'll dig into the "renovations budget" for a new PSU, as well as bying some arctic silver ($25 inc. shipping) next month.

 

[mazdarx7]

Another Intel defector, you'll be much happier with you AMD setup. I've heard too many good things about the Duron. The next upgrade would be to get the T-bird. I'm not that knowledgable about whether a Celeron could go to P3 (probably ?) to P4 (doubtful ?). I'm running a pair of K6 III + 450's overclocked to 600. CPUmark99 is as high as 63.4 on a SS7 Tyan S1590S AT that upgraded from a K6-2 400 and 486-33 in the past two years. At work we tested a 733 P 3 and it scored 63.8. I'll concede the win to P3, but what a score for the K6 III+.

 

[abracadabra1]

go w/ the duron.
the celeron socket 370 will be dead and leave you nowhere to upgrade.
the duron setup will give you better flexibility

 

[paulip88]

Nope. The Celeron platoform is nearing death. You can upgrade to a PIII, but no P4. P4's require a different socket and a different chipset. Of course I also hear that the current P4 paltforms won't work for future P4's, but its not like any of us are planning to get one of these P4's right now anyway.

 

[blackhawk]

Remember, he's just looking for a cheap upgrade & the celeron at a 100mz bus is pretty close to the duron and a lot cheaper if you calculate the other components he has to change. He'll probably need a new power supply & new ram as well.

 

[Rigoletto]

hahaha! Rigoletto can't count!
Can't believe I did that. Jesus. Don't tell Mensa.

 

[Jhhnn]

And then there is the completely contrary suggestion- A retail Pentium3e 700Mhz. slot-1 or s370 on a slotket. Keep the extra $80-$100, or spend it how you want. Includes HSF, will probably do a mild overclock in your system to ~110fsb....Seems to me to be the best choice within the price and with the existing hardware...Prices might be different in Denmark.