DVD-R Dual Layer

[imported_Skorpio]

Are DVD-R DL coming out or never?

 

[NumbaJuan]

DVD-R DL is currently in R&D and will hopefully surface in Q4 2004

 

[Gurck]

I've read that the media will be shipping in Japan in early '05, and is expected to make a (probably very high-priced) US debut in June.

 

[xsilver]

I think they missed the boat..... with bitsetting working fine +R DL media will be much cheaper when -R DL has just become available?
Bring on blue ray!

 

[Maschulo]

I already got a Dual Layer DVD burner (it says double-layer but my friends tell me this is dual layer)

this is the one i purchased:

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=27-135-111&depa=1

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Maschulo
I already got a Dual Layer DVD burner (it says double-layer but my friends tell me this is dual layer)

this is the one i purchased:

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=27-135-111&depa=1

He's talking about DVD-R DL media, of which is not even a standard yet. Only +R has DL media as of now..

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: Maschulo
I already got a Dual Layer DVD burner (it says double-layer but my friends tell me this is dual layer)

this is the one i purchased:

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=27-135-111&depa=1

He's talking about DVD-R DL media, of which is not even a standard yet. Only +R has DL media as of now..

I took a look on a few sites, including Newegg, and couldn't find *any* DL media, is the +R available in the US? And if so, where can it be found? What are the downsides, if any, vs. -R? As my CD collection reaches ridiculous size, I've been wanting more and more to switch over, but was waiting on a DL standard (and ~$1 or less per disc, hopefully )

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: Maschulo
I already got a Dual Layer DVD burner (it says double-layer but my friends tell me this is dual layer)

this is the one i purchased:

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=27-135-111&depa=1

He's talking about DVD-R DL media, of which is not even a standard yet. Only +R has DL media as of now..

I took a look on a few sites, including Newegg, and couldn't find *any* DL media, is the +R available in the US? And if so, where can it be found? What are the downsides, if any, vs. -R? As my CD collection reaches ridiculous size, I've been wanting more and more to switch over, but was waiting on a DL standard (and ~$1 or less per disc, hopefully )

Try Meritline, supermediastore, etc. They carry DL media. It is now under $10 a disc.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Skorpio
Are DVD-R DL coming out or never?

The DVD Forum just approved it at the last meeting, so as numbajuan said, Q4, with GA Q1-05. I have not seen any talk about any of the current players supporting it. Maybe the NEC and Pioneer will flash to it? Just speculation. Based on the track records of recorder updates, I suspect that a new model will fully support it

 

[jbh129]

double layer media is still too expensive to make it worthwhile.

 

[Thermalrock]

well the pressed dvds that you rent or buy in video stores are DVD+R-like and thats the original dvd. why would anyone need dvd-r double layer? ps i think its called double layer i say dual layer sometimes tho when i dont pay attention.

 

[randomlinh]

minus missed the boat

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Thermalrock
well the pressed dvds that you rent or buy in video stores are DVD+R-like and thats the original dvd. why would anyone need dvd-r double layer? ps i think its called double layer i say dual layer sometimes tho when i dont pay attention.

The pressed DVDs are DVD-ROM which is what bitsetting is all about.

And I need DL. One of my DVD projects is going to be a tight 2 disc project. Remember that 1 hr fits on a disc with good quality. At 1.5 hours, compression issues start really cropping up (pixelization). So, 2 hours of video should be on 2 disc, or 1 DL disc. For a 'consumer', 1 disc is preferred to 2.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: Thermalrock
well the pressed dvds that you rent or buy in video stores are DVD+R-like and thats the original dvd. why would anyone need dvd-r double layer? ps i think its called double layer i say dual layer sometimes tho when i dont pay attention.

Your post doesn't even make sense. ps it's called dual layer.

Originally posted by: gsellis
And I need DL. One of my DVD projects is going to be a tight 2 disc project. Remember that 1 hr fits on a disc with good quality. At 1.5 hours, compression issues start really cropping up (pixelization). So, 2 hours of video should be on 2 disc, or 1 DL disc. For a 'consumer', 1 disc is preferred to 2.

How exactly are you encoding your video that you can't fit more than 1 hour on a disc with good quality? That's absurd. Pressed DVD's are usually encoded with an average bitrate of around 5000-6000kbps. You can encode the entire video at a constant 9000kbps with 448k Dolby 5.1 audio and still fit over 60 minutes on a single-layer disc.

For a 'consumer', those kinds of bitrates are seriously pushing it, because there's a good chance the disc will skip in a lot of players when you've maxed out the bitrate like that.

The only way you could possibly need that kind of bitrate for something to look perfect would be a worst-case scenario source. The video would have to be 720x480, interlaced, full-frame and very shaky.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: jbh129
double layer media is still too expensive to make it worthwhile.

 

[Ian@CDRlabs]

Originally posted by: Tostadaps it's called dual layer.

Double.. dual.. it's the same thing.

As far as DVD-R DL goes, I have not heard of any new drives from NEC or Pioneer yet. However, Plextor Japan has said that the PX-716A will be getting support for it as early as December. Of course, this doesn't mean squat if media isn't available.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Tostada

Originally posted by: Thermalrock
well the pressed dvds that you rent or buy in video stores are DVD+R-like and thats the original dvd. why would anyone need dvd-r double layer? ps i think its called double layer i say dual layer sometimes tho when i dont pay attention.

Your post doesn't even make sense. ps it's called dual layer.

Originally posted by: gsellis
And I need DL. One of my DVD projects is going to be a tight 2 disc project. Remember that 1 hr fits on a disc with good quality. At 1.5 hours, compression issues start really cropping up (pixelization). So, 2 hours of video should be on 2 disc, or 1 DL disc. For a 'consumer', 1 disc is preferred to 2.

How exactly are you encoding your video that you can't fit more than 1 hour on a disc with good quality? That's absurd. Pressed DVD's are usually encoded with an average bitrate of around 5000-6000kbps. You can encode the entire video at a constant 9000kbps with 448k Dolby 5.1 audio and still fit over 60 minutes on a single-layer disc.

For a 'consumer', those kinds of bitrates are seriously pushing it, because there's a good chance the disc will skip in a lot of players when you've maxed out the bitrate like that.

The only way you could possibly need that kind of bitrate for something to look perfect would be a worst-case scenario source. The video would have to be 720x480, interlaced, full-frame and very shaky.

I am doing marching bands, football, and cheerleading. And lots of motion does what? I need bitrates up near at least 6000kbps to maintain a good picture. Otherwise I get too many artifacts. 8500kbps is considered the top-end for compatibility and I do use it on shorts. The last project was at 5700 using the most aggressive settings in TMPGEnc 2 pass mode. Took 8 hours... I still did not like some of the artifacting I was getting during some of the performances. I tried the CCE trial, but it did not improve the quality over TMPGEnc. I cannot wait until HD-DVD has saturated the market (3 formats and all better than current MPEG2).

Also, still using PCM audio for compatibility. Just got access to DD as a tool and would have to buy the pro version for a couple of projects (over 100 copies per Dolby). Priced that lately? I think it starts at $2k.


Edit - Tosada - 2 hours of video (and I think this will be 2.5 hours) = 2 disc as 2 hrs on 1 is around 3000kbps. PM me and I will pass on a link to a video if you want to see it.

 

[Thermalrock]

this is copy pasted from the us site of NEC:

The ND-3500A drive is the first advanced Double Layer 16x DVD re-writer to include high speed CD recording. This model incorporates NEC's leading optical storage technology to offer a high capacity, reliable device, ideal for digital video recording, storage and PC data back-up applications.

its called double layer and my post made sense. i still believe video dvd roms are dvd+r like

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: gsellis
I am doing marching bands, football, and cheerleading. And lots of motion does what? I need bitrates up near at least 6000kbps to maintain a good picture. Otherwise I get too many artifacts. 8500kbps is considered the top-end for compatibility and I do use it on shorts. The last project was at 5700 using the most aggressive settings in TMPGEnc 2 pass mode. Took 8 hours... I still did not like some of the artifacting I was getting during some of the performances. I tried the CCE trial, but it did not improve the quality over TMPGEnc. I cannot wait until HD-DVD has saturated the market (3 formats and all better than current MPEG2).

Also, still using PCM audio for compatibility. Just got access to DD as a tool and would have to buy the pro version for a couple of projects (over 100 copies per Dolby). Priced that lately? I think it starts at $2k.


Edit - Tosada - 2 hours of video (and I think this will be 2.5 hours) = 2 disc as 2 hrs on 1 is around 3000kbps. PM me and I will pass on a link to a video if you want to see it.

Well, I assume you're talking about interlaced full-frame from a DV source, and that definitely takes more bitrate than your average movie.

I use CCE 2.66 and have found it to be a little better than TMPGEnc. PCM audio is 1536kbps which is really hurting you -- we're talking 700MB for an hour of audio! Everything is compatible with MP2 audio. Most DVDs have the regular stereo track encoded as 192kbps MP2. TMPGEnc DVD Author will automatically re-encode your audio from PCM to MP2 (all the way up to 384kbps if you want). Besides, if there's that much action, you'd be better off encoding with a max bitrate of 9600kbps with MP2 audio than you would with 8500kbps with PCM. Also, 704x480 encoding is fully compatible saves some bitrate and doesn't lose any of the picture (those extra 16 pixels get ignored for 1.33:1 sources anyway).

Anyway, this is all OT, so I guess I'll stop, but you should go post on Doom9's DV forum if you're having trouble getting 2 hours of good-looking video on a DVD.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: Gurck

I took a look on a few sites, including Newegg, and couldn't find *any* DL media, is the +R available in the US? And if so, where can it be found? What are the downsides, if any, vs. -R? As my CD collection reaches ridiculous size, I've been wanting more and more to switch over, but was waiting on a DL standard (and ~$1 or less per disc, hopefully )

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=17-132-371

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=17-132-359

Ritek DVD+R DL 5-pack = $49