DVI quality improvment?

nardvark

Member
Jul 3, 2002
131
0
0
hey all-
just wondering how much of an improvment the DVI connection to an LCD provides? At what quality level of the moniter does this make a difference?
my father is buying a computer soon, and i have to pick out a video card for him, and was wondering whether or not he should spring for one with a DVI connection, because he'll be getting a 15" LCD with the system. he does all 2D, so I didn't want to spend much on the card, I was thinking an older ATI...
thanks in advance,
 

GoodToGo

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
3,516
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I have heard that people have put an analog output and digital output monitor right next to each other and have barely noticed any difference. Its probably just a marketing strategy rather than anythign else. Unless you dont literally stick your nose in the monitor and try to make the difference, you will not be able to make out which is which. Go with the annalog one which should be cheaper.
 

RalfHutter

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2000
3,202
0
76
Originally posted by: GoodToGo
I have heard that people have put an analog output and digital output monitor right next to each other and have barely noticed any difference. Its probably just a marketing strategy rather than anythign else. Unless you dont literally stick your nose in the monitor and try to make the difference, you will not be able to make out which is which. Go with the annalog one which should be cheaper.


No, no, no. DVI vs. analog is no horse-race. DVI image quality is much better than analog AND it's easy to see the difference. There's good technical reasons for this, but I just trust my eyes.

My Dell 1900FP LCD has both DVI and analog inputs and the ability to switch back and forth between them. When you do this you can see that the DVI input has much sharper detail and none of the slight "shimmer" and "pulsing" (I'm sure there's technical terms for what I'm describing, I just don't know them) of the analog input. The differences are pretty easy to see during normal computing activities, you don't have to be looking at the screen with a magnifying glass.

I've been using 2 computers and switching back and forth between analog and DVI for a while now. I got fed up with the analog image quality and just spent $400 for the only DVI KVM that I could find, just so I could have both boxes running DVI-in. Now I'm finally happy.


EDIT - You can find the ATI Radeon 7500 LE's online for around $50. They have DVI and analog outputs. I use one of these on my second box and the DVI image quality is indistinguishable from my more expensive card.
 

FluxCap

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2002
1,207
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0
So getting a card with DVI is worth it ? I can't decide if I should get the Radeon 9000 with or without DVI.
 

Gosharkss

Senior member
Nov 10, 2000
956
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0
Digital (DVI) like (BNC connectors on a CRT) in theory will provide a better picture. However in practice or in a blind test I find it very difficult to tell the difference. This also depends on the quality of the video signal provided by the video card. Some cards are notorious for poor analog video signal quality thus the analog interface takes the rap when in fact it is a poor design on specific products.

The myth that DVI (digital) does not need to be converted to (analog) is just that, a myth. On a analog system, the Ramdac (chip that generates the video signal on the VC) has been integrated into the graphics controller chip for years now. Adding DVI means adding a DVI transmitter chip to the VC and a DVI receiver chip in the monitor.

In order to transmit the digital data from the VC in true digital, the graphics chip must have DVI outputs and the video cable would need to have a single wire for each bit. If this were true the cable would need to contain more than 27 wires. You can imagine how thick this cable would be. DVI converts the parallel data to a number of digital serial channels. Depending on the interface used (DVI-I or DVI-D) the number of serial channels varies. The serial bit steam is then converted back on the monitor side, and the signal must be sampled using the pixel clock. You can argue that DVI actually increases the number of times the signal is processed but since it is a digital signal this is rather a moot point.

Even monitors with a DVI interface convert to analog at the LCD driver level. The digital signal must be converted to an analog in order to achieve the 16M colors. If LCD was pure digital only eight colors, would be achievable. In order to generate the 16M colors each red, green and blue cell must be capable of stepping through 256 shades this is an analog function. In fact, most LCDs maintain the video signal in analog form through to the pixel drivers (NEC was the most notable producer of these).

Most of today?s version of DVI is rather limited. DVI driver chips have a maximum 1600 x 1200 at 60Hz resolution and refresh rate capability. Keep this in mind if you plan on upgrading. LCD?s do not suffer from flicker so the 60Hz is not such a big deal unless you are playing games and want higher FPS. Faster DVI transmitter and receiver chips are being developed if you want to upgrade, however that means replacing both your video card and monitor. With an analog connection you can upgrade either one without the need to replace the other. This is a major reason DVI will not show up on CRT monitors.

Also if you use DVI-I or DVI-D I do not recommend hot swapping (unplugging) the monitor. Turn the computer and monitor off prior to unplugging the monitor.

The chief advantages of DVI are improved image stability. The DVI interface provides a pixel clock, where the analog interface the clock used to sample the analog video has to be derived from the horizontal sync.

Even though it is possible to have pixel jitter in the analog interface, It is extremely rare so if you're seeing noise, odds are something's is wrong.

 

nardvark

Member
Jul 3, 2002
131
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0
thank you all for the informative replies...i guess my question then would be if an 32MB ATI RAGE family video card would supply a high quality 2D display?
Games are not an issue at all here.
 
Mar 8, 2001
115
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I saw a marked improvement in my Dell 2000FP LCD switching from Analog to DVI, the colors and whites were much cleaner and sharp with the DVI connection. Age of Mythology blue water really jumps out now.
 

Stealth1024

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2000
2,266
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pixel jitter and analog signal interference alone are reasons why digital is soo much better than analog...

And why are home theaters still using analog component connectors when DVI is out there? sigh.
 

broadwayblue

Golden Member
Nov 1, 1999
1,323
0
0
Originally posted by: Stealth1024
pixel jitter and analog signal interference alone are reasons why digital is soo much better than analog...

And why are home theaters still using analog component connectors when DVI is out there? sigh.


most of the current year models of both front and rear projectors have a DVI input. i would imagine it's only a matter of time before AV Receivers have DVI switching capability built in like current models have for component video.
 

Deskstar

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2001
1,254
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0
My Dell 1800LP shows dramatic improvement when switched from analog to DVI using a GF4 Ti4600. Some of the cheaper Dell 15" LCDs to my eyes only showed little image degradation using analog only, however. So, it depends on the size and quality of the LCD. Be safe and get DVI.
 

S13SilviaK

Senior member
Jan 23, 2002
991
0
71
Just as a side point to Gosharkss DVI is already on some CRT's most notably very high end Sony's. As of right now I will hold judgment on DVI vs Analog because my 1800FP isn't here yet, but once it arrives I'll chime in, but it seems to me that it all depends on the eyes. The more difference you notice the better yours eyes...haha just kidding you "older" guys.
 
Mar 8, 2001
115
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On one of the Home Theater websites, home theater spot.com, I visit say DVI hasn't been released because companies are talking about copyright issues. They're afraid putting DVI out there will allow people to record perfect video and they don't like that thinking they'll lose some money or something. The new Tosidba RPTV's have a DVI upgrade slot on them so maybe DVI isn't that far away from home theaters!
 

Stealth1024

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2000
2,266
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0
You know I think we could get around the home theater mess by building a home theater PC with a Radeon 9700 All-In-Wonder. DVI Out, TV tuning... Maybe another card for inputs from an HDTV tuner for Satelite. An Audigy 2 can do all the decoding and all we need is an outboard 5 channel amp and a powered sub along with a 1920x1080 projector with DVI input.

By the way, will DVI handle that sort of resolution at a decent refresh rate? The bandwidth has to be limited...
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
0
0
The new Tosidba RPTV's have a DVI upgrade slot on them so maybe DVI isn't that far away from home theaters!
Thats last years model, This years model the 65HDX82. for instance, has a DVI interface, and so do many of the new top models from most of the manufacterers.
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
2
0
Originally posted by: RalfHutter
I've been using 2 computers and switching back and forth between analog and DVI for a while now. I got fed up with the analog image quality and just spent $400 for the only DVI KVM that I could find, just so I could have both boxes running DVI-in. Now I'm finally happy.

Holy Sh!t man! For $400 you could almost buy a new LCD! :Q

Chiz
 
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