Dylan Farrow slaps Woody Allen around

[zinfamous]

Dylan has never been, nor will she ever be proven to be mistaken or a liar, or brainwashed. That's BS. Bring on your fake proof.

Woody raped Dylan, no doubt. While committing one of the most evil acts, he whispered stupidity to her about his stupid movies. THAT IS SICK.

Thing is, there was significant lack of evidence, much less a plausible situaiton in which that ever would have happened, that a grand jury dropped it.

The only court that has tried Allen and "convicted" him, is the court of public opinion, which was directed by Mia. The reality is that she doesn't have many allies amongst their long personal friends. Also, when you take into the account that the public knowledge regarding his relations with his adopted children is a based on a giant fabrication, these cases crumble.

I used to believe the hype. It was actually this thread and the Salon article that brought up the actual facts about the case, and reversed my stance a full 180 re: Allen.

What you want in terms of actual facts are already there.

..and who the fuck are you to create this account, just to spam this dead thread with this tomfoolery?

Are you Mia Farrow?

 

[Markbnj]

..and who the fuck are you to create this account, just to spam this dead thread with this tomfoolery?

There's a Tom Mazaway that works for ESPN's affiliate station in Detroit, but I don't see anything to connect the name with Mia Farrow. Probably just the real name of a guy who happened on the thread and obviously has strong feelings on the matter. Or someone who knows of the ESPN guy and used the name for some other reason.

 

[zinfamous]

Not a single movie written and directed by Woody Allen I've seen would be classified as "great" let alone "good". Ed Wood is a better writer / director!

Annie Hall was, indeed amazing. Manhatten and a few others were great, too. But honestly, most of those from that period are pretty much the same.

As far as the allegations against him, I am not sure what to make of it. Which means Woody Allen's team did a pretty good job obscuring it with public opinion. I see nothing to gain from Dylan claiming these things happened, especially now.

I think it turned out to be more of Mia's tomfoolery. The reality is that when presented with the actual video of Dylan's earlier "confession," the DA dropped it. the video was recorded over a week or so, with Mia coaching her through it. None of the other kids seem to support Mia's accusations, either. Then or now.

One also has to accept that for this to have happened, Allen, who was already under investigation because of the allegations re: Soon Yi, he would have had to find a 15 minute time period, during a family get together in a small cabin where the entire family was then gathered, to take Dylan up to a room and rape her.

The public takes him to be a creep, for rather obvious reasons. It's easy to label him such, and even easier to believe any type of accusation that suggests worse.

The only reality with these cases is that no court has found sufficient evidence to convict him of any such charges; yet the public believes only a story that doesn't seem to have existed. As is often the case with such high-profile cases--what the public thinks it knows (I think most believe he was actually convicted before), is very often not what happened.

 

[zinfamous]

There's a Tom Mazaway that works for ESPN's affiliate station in Detroit, but I don't see anything to connect the name with Mia Farrow. Probably just the real name of a guy who happened on the thread and obviously has strong feelings on the matter. Or someone who knows of the ESPN guy and used the name for some other reason.

never know--I've seen some foolish behavior from public figures on these forums before.

In P&N, during the 2008 elections, some local politician made the news due to some ridiculous publicity from a campaign stunt (I forget the details--but it was just stupid).

Anyway, I posted that, and within the hour, that same dude had created an account here, with his name, and was posting in the thread.

 

[zinfamous]

Don't forget, that Woody married an adopted daughter of Mia's who was adopted during her second marriage to Previn. THAT IS ALSO QUITE SICK.

It's strange, that's for sure.

But here's another fact: Woody had never known Soon Yi before she was 18 or 19. She had never been to his place, never been introduced, he certainly never "groomed her" when she was a child, as has been suggested int eh media.

Mia introduced the two sometime later in life, well after Soon Yi had grown up in the same household as Mia and Previn.

That is, simply, fact. Despite your false assumptions about what life was like with them, that is what it is. Strange, sure, to many people I guess. But not the strangest relationship, or situation that humanity has offered us.

It's certainly not sick, however.

 

[smackababy]

It's strange, that's for sure.

But here's another fact: Woody had never known Soon Yi before she was 18 or 19. She had never been to his place, never been introduced, he certainly never "groomed her" when she was a child, as has been suggested int eh media.

Mia introduced the two sometime later in life, well after Soon Yi had grown up in the same household as Mia and Previn.

That is, simply, fact. Despite your false assumptions about what life was like with them, that is what it is. Strange, sure, to many people I guess. But not the strangest relationship, or situation that humanity has offered us.

It's certainly not sick, however.

Even if Soon Yi was a legal adult by the time she met Woody, the idea being put forth she never viewed him as a father figure is idiotic at best. There is no age limit to when you stop viewing people as a father figure. While what he did with her might not have been illegal (although, it might have been, I'm not entirely sure on incest laws), it is still incredibly creepy.

And, it is odd that you are championing Woody and citing all the media lies about him (not that they aren't lies), but ignoring that the same media could be telling equally 'damning' lies about Mia and Dylan.

The question I find most interesting is: what does Dylan have to gain from continuing this crusade against Woody, claiming he raped her years ago? Why keep up the farce and keep it in the public eye, if it was, in fact a farce?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Why would she view someone she had never met as a father figure?

Did you miss this part?

But here's another fact: Woody had never known Soon Yi before she was 18 or 19. She had never been to his place, never been introduced, ...

I'm not an Allen fan, but it's not incest in this case.

 

[smackababy]

Why would she view someone she had never met as a father figure?

Did you miss this part?


I'm not an Allen fan, but it's not incest in this case.

At some point, he had to have met her. And, at that point, he was in a relationship with her mom. What developed into a sexual relationship between Soon Yi and Allen escalated from a relationship that was him dating her mother. Even if she was 18 or 19 (or whatever, as her age can't really be confirmed without a birth certificate and you know how Asians age... Look 12 until around 50 and then they look 120), that doesn't stop her from viewing him as a father figure.

 

[zinfamous]

Why would she view someone she had never met as a father figure?

Did you miss this part?


I'm not an Allen fan, but it's not incest in this case.

exactly. He was never a father figure because she was raised by Mia and her real father. Allen was never "Uncle Woody," either.

They really had not been in the same room together until she was an adult, and with Mia introducing them. Any claim of him being a "father figure" is clearly invented.

Think about an ex-wife introducing you to her new family, with kids brought into the marriage--adults now. Would it make sense that these kids would consider you a father figure?


as for Dylan--I really don't know why she would bring it up. But what has been shown is that her siblings don't believe it, they all claim that the video confession was coerced and rehearsed when she was very young, and heavily edited (all by Mia).

You teach kids from an early age that Jesus rode dinosaurs--they can certainly believe it forever. You distort a moment and coach a kid into believing that moment was something that it wasn't, it's pretty easy for them to grow up believing nothing else.

Now, I hate to champion such an interpretation, but it is not without precedent, and it seems that all of the real evidence in this points to Allen being guilty of nothing more than being a strange bird.

 

[zinfamous]

At some point, he had to have met her. And, at that point, he was in a relationship with her mom. What developed into a sexual relationship between Soon Yi and Allen escalated from a relationship that was him dating her mother. Even if she was 18 or 19 (or whatever, as her age can't really be confirmed without a birth certificate and you know how Asians age... Look 12 until around 50 and then they look 120), that doesn't stop her from viewing him as a father figure.

Nope. Again, that is not at all true.

They were long divorced. Seriously, go back and read the Salon article that details the actual facts of their lives.

I forget the age, but Mia and Woody separated--guess what, they were never married. In fact, they never even lived together--Mia married the Sevin dude, who's daughter, Soon-Yi, at the time, was 8 or 12.

Woody and Mia kept up, but their families never really mingled. Woody never met Soon Yi in this time.

Some years later, Mia introduced the two at some function; Soon Yi was now 18. That is the first time the two of them ever saw each other.

here is what people don't understand:

--Soon Yi is Mia's step-daughter
--Woody and Mia were never married; they always lived in different apartments.
--They were separated many many years before Woody ever met Soon Yi
--Woody did not meet Soon Yi until Soon Yi was an adult. She was never at his house, alone or otherwise. He never raised her. She never thought of him as a father. He was, to her, someone that her step-mother knows.

 

[smackababy]

exactly. He was never a father figure because she was raised by Mia and her real father. Allen was never "Uncle Woody," either.

They really had not been in the same room together until she was an adult, and with Mia introducing them. Any claim of him being a "father figure" is clearly invented.

Think about an ex-wife introducing you to her new family, with kids brought into the marriage--adults now. Would it make sense that these kids would consider you a father figure?

And, at what point, does one stop being able to have father figures in their life? Did you abandon all father figures at 18? I find that hard to believe.

as for Dylan--I really don't know why she would bring it up. But what has been shown is that her siblings don't believe it, they all claim that the video confession was coerced and rehearsed when she was very young, and heavily edited (all by Mia).

You teach kids from an early age that Jesus rode dinosaurs--they can certainly believe it forever. You distort a moment and coach a kid into believing that moment was something that it wasn't, it's pretty easy for them to grow up believing nothing else.

Now, I hate to champion such an interpretation, but it is not without precedent, and it seems that all of the real evidence in this points to Allen being guilty of nothing more than being a strange bird.

Let's look at other high profile cases that receive a lot of media attention. The people involved, especially years later, have a hard time believing what they've heard on TV and what they actually saw. Who am I supposed to believe? The daughter who says she was molested by Woody or the son who has heard on the news a hundred times that she was coached to say it?

 

[Exophase]

And, at what point, does one stop being able to have father figures in their life? Did you abandon all father figures at 18? I find that hard to believe.

Someone can certainly find new father figures in adulthood, but that doesn't mean that your mother's boyfriend will automatically become one. Which is what you're saying when you insist Allen was viewed as a father figure.

 

[smackababy]

Nope. Again, that is not at all true.

They were long divorced. Seriously, go back and read the Salon article that details the actual facts of their lives.

I forget the age, but Mia and Woody separated--guess what, they were never married. In fact, they never even lived together--Mia married the Sevin dude, who's daughter, Soon-Yi, at the time, was 8 or 12.

Woody and Mia kept up, but their families never really mingled. Woody never met Soon Yi in this time.

Some years later, Mia introduced the two at some function; Soon Yi was now 18. That is the first time the two of them ever saw each other.

here is what people don't understand:

--Soon Yi is Mia's step-daughter
--Woody and Mia were never married; they always lived in different apartments.
--They were separated many many years before Woody ever met Soon Yi
--Woody did not meet Soon Yi until Soon Yi was an adult. She was never at his house, alone or otherwise. He never raised her. She never thought of him as a father. He was, to her, someone that her step-mother knows.

You're taking what Salon said over what was in Mia's autobiography. She claims in 1992 she left Woody when she discovered a nude photograph of a then 18-20 (which is still unknown) Soon Yi, to which Woody admits to a relationship. So, at some point, prior to them breaking up, he had to have met Soon Yi. Otherwise, they couldn't have a relationship. His "meeting" is also in contention. There are photos of Allen with Mia and Soon Yi taken 4 years prior to 1992. How you can claim that, even if she was 20 in 1992, he never met her before she was an adult is just silly.

Now, his involvement in her life is another story.

 

[smackababy]

Someone can certainly find new father figures in adulthood, but that doesn't mean that your mother's boyfriend will automatically become one. Which is what you're saying when you insist Allen was viewed as a father figure.

I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is one of Salon's "facts" that she couldn't view Woody as a father figure due to him meeting her when she was an adult is a ludicrous assumption to put forth.

 

[zinfamous]

And, at what point, does one stop being able to have father figures in their life? Did you abandon all father figures at 18? I find that hard to believe.

you're still missing it--there was nothing to abandon, because he was never that. And as far as developing new father figures--why would he be a default father figure to her?

That was imply not the relationship dynamic. Again, he was simply "some guy that knows my stepmother." That is it. there is nothing more to read into that, or assume that our typical social structure is immediately applicable to theirs. Seriously--these are people that jet off to Riomaggiore when they feel like it or take July off to yacht around the South of France. Deny it all you want--they are different. Relationships are different. It's perfectly reasonable to be introduced to any number of people with various levels of connections to your own people in this way. It just happens. It further complicates things that Farrow's well-publicized long-term relationships with people like Sinatra throw a wrench into the whole "normal family" dynamic.

Again, don't forget that Mia's relationship with Woody for those decades was never a marriage, and they never lived together. I believe she never once stayed at his apartment. Why would a relationship like that, for decades, suddenly transfer to the type of people that would adopt the partners new kids and raise them in the way we would expect? it wouldn't...

Let's look at other high profile cases that receive a lot of media attention. The people involved, especially years later, have a hard time believing what they've heard on TV and what they actually saw. Who am I supposed to believe? The daughter who says she was molested by Woody or the son who has heard on the news a hundred times that she was coached to say it?

That's the thing--I'm pretty sure this was never said on the news a hundred times. Media never brought out these stories during that time, or when this newer article was published. Those are statements from the horse's mouth, and few are bringing it up.

All I know, like I mentioned earlier, is that I was you--creeped out by the gross pervy Woody Allen, whose portrait was so clearly and so perfectly painted for me. Then, I looked into those other articles, from friends and everyone else in the family that are not Mia and Dylan, and from the actual court trials and the details of the trials.

Nothing adds up. It flipped me over, completely.

Everyone thinks that Woody raised Soon Yi and creepily groomed her as a child. Everyone thinks that he was married to Mia, who brought in Soon Yi to live with them from a previous marriage...that is all completely false.

First, one realizes that the popular story is demonstrably false. Then, one realizes that the source of the story (Mia) lacks any credibility. Finally, one can't help but accept that it is all bullshit.

 

[zinfamous]

You're taking what Salon said over what was in Mia's autobiography.

:hmm:

 

[smackababy]

Nothing has been proven demonstrably false, except that you are ignoring evidence and taking an article in Salon as fact. Said article happens to make incredibly false claims: such as Allen met Soon Yi for the first time after she was an adult. It was revealed in 1992 he was having a relationship with her. This is 4 years after he was photographed with Mia and Soon Yi together. Obviously, if she was 21 in 1992, she would not have been an adult 4 years prior to that. And Woody had to have met her at some point while in a relationship with her adopted mother.

 

[Phoenix86]

Everyone thinks that Woody raised Soon Yi and creepily groomed her as a child. Everyone thinks that he was married to Mia, who brought in Soon Yi to live with them from a previous marriage...that is all completely false.

First, one realizes that the popular story is demonstrably false. Then, one realizes that the source of the story (Mia) lacks any credibility. Finally, one can't help but accept that it is all bullshit.

I only had a very casual understanding of this case and that's exactly what I thought as well (first paragraph). I had no idea they weren't married, I had no idea Allen didn't raise Yi...

 

[Exophase]

I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is one of Salon's "facts" that she couldn't view Woody as a father figure due to him meeting her when she was an adult is a ludicrous assumption to put forth.

You said that the idea of her never viewing him as a father figure was idiotic at best. No one, including Salon, ever made the argument that she never could have viewed him as a father figure. The claim is that she didn't, and it's supported by statements made from those around. To call that idiotic is to insist that he must have been a father figure.

Without any evidence that she actually viewed him that way the default position would be that she didn't.

 

[zinfamous]

Nothing has been proven demonstrably false, except that you are ignoring evidence and taking an article in Salon as fact. Said article happens to make incredibly false claims: such as Allen met Soon Yi for the first time after she was an adult. It was revealed in 1992 he was having a relationship with her. This is 4 years after he was photographed with Mia and Soon Yi together. Obviously, if she was 21 in 1992, she would not have been an adult 4 years prior to that. And Woody had to have met her at some point while in a relationship with her adopted mother.

OK, it's been a while since I read the article, so some of the details are fuzzy. quoting the summary/paste provided by the late dennilfloss on the first page of the thread:

#1: Soon-Yi was Woody’s daughter. False.

#2: Soon-Yi was Woody’s step-daughter. False.

#3: Soon-Yi was Woody and Mia’s adopted daughter. False. Soon-Yi was the adopted daughter of Mia Farrow and André Previn. Her full name was Soon-Yi Farrow Previn.

#4: Woody and Mia were married. False.

#5: Woody and Mia lived together. False. Woody lived in his apartment on Fifth Ave. Mia and her kids lived on Central Park West. In fact, Woody never once stayed over night at Mia’s apartment in 12 years.

#6: Woody and Mia had a common-law marriage. False. New York State does not recognize common law marriage. Even in states that do, a couple has to cohabitate for a certain number of years.

#7: Soon-Yi viewed Woody as a father figure. False. Soon-Yi saw Woody as her mother’s boyfriend. Her father figure was her adoptive father, André Previn.

#8: Soon-Yi was underage when she and Woody started having relations. False. She was either 19 or 21. (Her year of birth in Korea was undocumented, but believed to be either 1970 or ’72.)

#9: Soon-Yi was borderline retarded. Ha! She’s smart as a whip, has a degree from Columbia University and speaks more languages than you.

#10: Woody was grooming Soon-Yi from an early age to be his child bride. Oh, come on! According to court documents and Mia’s own memoir, until 1990 (when Soon-Yi was 18 or 20), Woody “had little to do with any of the Previn children, (but) had the least to do with Soon-Yi” so Mia encouraged him to spend more time with her. Woody started taking her to basketball games, and the rest is tabloid history. So he hardly “had his eye on her” from the time she was a child.

by the way--I think this is DailyBeast, not Salon. whoops.

I'm not simply taking what they claim as fact--I am adding what they report, from the friends and family of Allen, the people that actually know them and know their history quite closely--and mixing that with what actually happened in the real court trials (not the TV version of the trials), to come up with a new conclusion.

It's worth reading:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/27/the-woody-allen-allegations-not-so-fast.html

For the simple fact that it is one of those rare chances to humble oneself and one's earlier assumptions under the overwhelming burden of evidence that contradicts your beliefs. ...and this wasn't Allen's friend. It was a documentarian assigned to work with him, whom had his own convictions turned upside down. This is what makes good documentary, in fact. I only wish that if some similar public shaming happened to me (not that I am or ever will be anything close to the same status), there is at least one person like this capable of coming to the truth through simple investigation, even if their "beliefs" can be shamed into oblivion.


and, for the record (As it's already here, anyway), this is my first knee-jerk response to this thread when it was first started:

the creepy rapey nerd guy is again accused of being a creepy rapey nerd guy.

shit.

You can even find the OP's follow-up response after that article was posted.

 

[smackababy]

OK, it's been a while since I read the article, so some of the details are fuzzy. quoting the summary/paste provided by the late dennilfloss on the first page of the thread:




by the way--I think this is DailyBeast, not Salon. whoops.

I'm not simply taking what they claim as fact--I am adding what they report, from the friends and family of Allen, the people that actually know them and know their history quite closely--and mixing that with what actually happened in the real court trials (not the TV version of the trials), to come up with a new conclusion.

The problem is that the parts about Soon Yi are completely unverifiable. When they started their relationship? When they told people, or when they said? If I were a 55 year old banging a 19 year old, I'd certainly not admit I was banging her 2 years earlier. Woody had contact with her long before 1992. He knew her and had spent some amount of time around her. Who she did and did not view as a father figure is also completely unverifiable and up to interpretation. How does one even verify who someone looks up to as a father figure? He had been, in some form, in her life since she was ~10. Unless we are to believe their relationship was so casual that they never shared any conversation or time around each other, there is no way Woody was "just a friend of mommy". And, even if the relationship was 100% legit, it doesn't change the topic of the OP: Woody Allen being accused of molestation against his adopted daughter.

The real problem is that because he is famous, we collectively give him a pass. Had this been some regular Joe and a regular Jane, even a false sexual abuse of a child accusation would ruin his life. However, is Woody Allen a registered sex offender? Of course not! That is preposterous! Why does the victim have to have been coached to accuse him? And if so, why does she continue to accuse him years afterwards?

 

[Exophase]

There's no real doubt in my mind that Woody Allen is attracted to teenage girls, including ones who aren't yet 18. Whether or not he knew Soon Yi before she was 18, and if he did but chose to wait before pursuing her, I don't really know.

But that alone doesn't mean he has a proclivity towards 7 year olds, much less his adopted daughter. A lot of people seem to think all attraction to people under 18 is the same, but it really isn't. Or they want him to be punished for Soon Yi but know he can't be because there's no evidence he did anything illegal with her and she isn't complaining. Mia Farrow of all people has this motivation.

But Dylan Farrow shouldn't have that kind of motivation. So who knows. She's probably being sincere, Allen thinks so anyway, so you have to ask yourself if it's really possible for a distant memory to be misinterpreted or outright manufactured. I don't really know. My own memories of when I was 7 are very spotty at best, and I've been confused about things that didn't actually happen before, but I never believed to have been through such a traumatic episode, which people tend to stay stick with you more vividly.

 

[zinfamous]

The problem is that the parts about Soon Yi are completely unverifiable. When they started their relationship? When they told people, or when they said? If I were a 55 year old banging a 19 year old, I'd certainly not admit I was banging her 2 years earlier. Woody had contact with her long before 1992. He knew her and had spent some amount of time around her. Who she did and did not view as a father figure is also completely unverifiable and up to interpretation. How does one even verify who someone looks up to as a father figure? He had been, in some form, in her life since she was ~10. Unless we are to believe their relationship was so casual that they never shared any conversation or time around each other, there is no way Woody was "just a friend of mommy". And, even if the relationship was 100% legit, it doesn't change the topic of the OP: Woody Allen being accused of molestation against his adopted daughter.

The real problem is that because he is famous, we collectively give him a pass. Had this been some regular Joe and a regular Jane, even a false sexual abuse of a child accusation would ruin his life. However, is Woody Allen a registered sex offender? Of course not! That is preposterous! Why does the victim have to have been coached to accuse him? And if so, why does she continue to accuse him years afterwards?

That's the thing. I don't think anyone gave him a pass.


..that's the point about this current discussion. He was pilloried despite the alarmingly contradictory evidence.

 

[tom mazaway]

................................................

 

[tom mazaway]

The problem is that the parts about Soon Yi are completely unverifiable. When they started their relationship? When they told people, or when they said? If I were a 55 year old banging a 19 year old, I'd certainly not admit I was banging her 2 years earlier. Woody had contact with her long before 1992. He knew her and had spent some amount of time around her. Who she did and did not view as a father figure is also completely unverifiable and up to interpretation. How does one even verify who someone looks up to as a father figure? He had been, in some form, in her life since she was ~10. Unless we are to believe their relationship was so casual that they never shared any conversation or time around each other, there is no way Woody was "just a friend of mommy". And, even if the relationship was 100% legit, it doesn't change the topic of the OP: Woody Allen being accused of molestation against his adopted daughter.

According to the web Soon-yi was likely born around 1972. This would've made her 8 years old when Allen and Farrow (1980-1992) started their partnership. That is some very sick stuff right there. I totally agree with you that it may have started much earlier. Think about how much easier it would be to manipulate a girl who didn't even have a certain birthdate from another country.