E15 gasoline

[DietDrThunder]

The article talks about 2001 and newer, but older cars, like our classics would be more affected.

http://www.imakenews.com/lubritec/e_article002616520.cfm?x=bm27Mlj,bbb8d9bp

 

[Jimzz]

Yep i'm replacing all the lines in my 73 chevy to be safe. That and also will put on a F/I system in the future.

I know my current carb can't handle it long term. That and I have read, not sure if true, but ethonal gets worse as it ages vs regular gas? Again don't quote me on that may be as much truth as BS.

How about allow e15 but only mandate e5. But make the stickers much larger saying what they are selling.

 

[soccerballtux]

I'm not opposed to high blends of ethanol now that corn subsidy has expired, but am opposed to them ramming it down my throat. I want cheapest gas prices, and putting something in with less energy makes me pay more.

doubly so if it ruins my engine after 10 years and I'm none the wiser.
3M or somebody has an enzyme that can break down corn stalks into ethanol. There are plenty of other cellulose waste products we could turn into ethanol. I support the idea in theory, especially since it would be a source of domestic employment (we desperately need something better than our consumption economy).

I am opposed to the idea of just growing monocultures of crops for thousands of square miles simply for gas-- that's going to be very bad for the climate.

 

[SparkyJJO]

E15 won't ever touch my old vehicles. And since I don't own anything but old vehicles I guess I had better hope they don't push E15 around here too much :|

Just give me some pure gasoline again please. This ethanol crap is, well, crap. Especially since they are using a food source to make it from of all things instead of other (and better) sources.

 

[Fenixgoon]

E15 = fail.

i suspect it will destroy both my vehicles (2009 yamaha FZ6R and 2010 genesis coupe 2.0T)

 

[Rifter]

Its a good thing i can still get real 100% gas around here.

 

[jlee]

I ran straight E85 in my MR2 on the stock fuel system (except rail/injectors/pump). That wasn't for years and hundreds of thousands of miles, though, so I dunno.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Yeah I think the fear is a bit over blown. I don't see how going from 10% to 15% is going to cause my fuel system to explode in a short period. Maybe it will take some life off the end but not enough to matter.

 

[phucheneh]

Uh. 'E15,' also known as 'standard pump gas,' doesn't damage shit. Gas in my area has had 10-20% ethanol for years.

Damaged valve seats from 15% ethanol? Give me a fucking break.

What must valve seats in E85 motors be made of? Christ-anium?

edit: Not to seem like a total prick here, but damn...this just reeks of someone with an agenda. Supposedly 10% ethanol is fine, but 15% causes all kinds of damage? I highly doubt there is some ethanol 'critical mass.'

 

[LTC8K6]

Water and ethanol can create an acid in the combustion chamber. Formic acid. So, valve seat wear and bearing damage is not out of the question.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English...obil/Oil_Best_for_Engines_Using_E85_Fuel.aspx

 

[vshah]

thankfully there are quite a few stations around pittsburgh that sell straight gas.

unless they're just not labeling and are in violation of that law. but there are several of them so i find it hard to believe.

 

[phucheneh]

I didn't know my area was that different...literally every station has signs on the pump that say 'may contain up to 20% ethanol.'

 

[Rifter]

I didn't know my area was that different...literally every station has signs on the pump that say 'may contain up to 20% ethanol.'

It took me a long time to figure out which gas around here is 100% but i finally did.

The chevron 94 octane and the Shell 91 octane in my province are both 100% gas no ethanol. I have confirmed this via e-mail with both companies head canadian office.

Since my car takes 91 octane min i dont have a issue with this

 

[phucheneh]

I think I asked this in another thread and never got a response: does anyone know if the octane equivalent of ethanol is factored into the rating of gas? Basically, is 'regular' actually less than 87 octane gasoline plus the added ethanol?

If this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if the shit 'base' gas is actually causing any legitimate concerns that are being blamed on ethanol. Not that I support ethanol as fuel; I think it's dumb. I just don't believe that small quantities are destroying engines or even rubber hoses or other commonly cited things.

 

[SparkyJJO]

It is a max of 10% of that crap here. And E85 capable engines are different. Not sure exactly what, but it wouldn't surprise me if some stuff like valve seats are changed a bit.

5% may not seem like much, no, but it is a 50% increase over 10%. You could be easily having issues in some cases. A lot of stuff is that way. Up to a certain amount of X is OK, but go over that and you're in trouble. Bumping your BAC up by 50% could take you from being OK to dead after all

 

[LTC8K6]

I suppose at 15%, people might start to notice the mileage drop. Maybe even cold start problems.

I know that in the winter in many states, E85 is actually only E70, because E85 causes starting problems in the cold in flex fuel vehicles. They reduce the ethanol content for the winter blend, but don't change the labeling.

 

[Jimzz]

I think I asked this in another thread and never got a response: does anyone know if the octane equivalent of ethanol is factored into the rating of gas? Basically, is 'regular' actually less than 87 octane gasoline plus the added ethanol?

If this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if the shit 'base' gas is actually causing any legitimate concerns that are being blamed on ethanol. Not that I support ethanol as fuel; I think it's dumb. I just don't believe that small quantities are destroying engines or even rubber hoses or other commonly cited things.

Then you don't work on cars much, esp older ones. I have seen carbs and rubber lines eaten up let alone smaller engines that can't handle ethanol. My own carb in my 73 has some smaller issues, and no its not the factory carb but aftermarket that is less than 10 years old.

 

[Ben90]

I think I asked this in another thread and never got a response: does anyone know if the octane equivalent of ethanol is factored into the rating of gas? Basically, is 'regular' actually less than 87 octane gasoline plus the added ethanol?

If this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if the shit 'base' gas is actually causing any legitimate concerns that are being blamed on ethanol. Not that I support ethanol as fuel; I think it's dumb. I just don't believe that small quantities are destroying engines or even rubber hoses or other commonly cited things.

Octane really has no relationship on quality of gas. Grab a handful of sand or piss in the gastank and the Octane goes up.

 

[jlee]

Old thread..but..

I think I asked this in another thread and never got a response: does anyone know if the octane equivalent of ethanol is factored into the rating of gas? Basically, is 'regular' actually less than 87 octane gasoline plus the added ethanol?

If this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if the shit 'base' gas is actually causing any legitimate concerns that are being blamed on ethanol. Not that I support ethanol as fuel; I think it's dumb. I just don't believe that small quantities are destroying engines or even rubber hoses or other commonly cited things.

So ending with a total effective octane of 87? Nope, it's more like 100+.

E15 = fail.

i suspect it will destroy both my vehicles (2009 yamaha FZ6R and 2010 genesis coupe 2.0T)

If you have a turbo car that's getting "ruined" by ethanol, you're doing it wrong.

My MR2 sees nothing other than E85. :awe:

 

[JulesMaximus]

E15 = fail.

i suspect it will destroy both my vehicles (2009 yamaha FZ6R and 2010 genesis coupe 2.0T)

:thumbsup: This.

My hybrid specifically states not to use more than 10% ethanol fuel.

 

[Mark R]

Most cars since 2000 are OK.

The problems are in first generation direct-injection systems. The pump and injector materials can be pitted by corrosion from the ethanol, and as these devices are ultra-high precision, you can get significant problems.

Toyota/Lexus recalled a whole bunch of GDI models including 2008 MY vehicles because they found that E15 was corroding the injection pumps and swarf from the pumps was plugging the injectors.

 

[LTC8K6]

E85's true octane rating is between 94 and 96 octane according to Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85#Octane_rating

As far as the E10 blend most of us use, the octane rating is what's on the pump.

 

[jlee]

E85's true octane rating is between 94 and 96 octane according to Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85#Octane_rating

As far as the E10 blend most of us use, the octane rating is what's on the pump.

Effective octane is much, much higher if you're comparing to race gas/etc in a forced induction application. Running ~30% more fuel results in a dramatic cooling effect, somewhat like running water/meth injection all the time.

 

[LTC8K6]

Effective octane is much, much higher if you're comparing to race gas/etc in a forced induction application. Running ~30% more fuel results in a dramatic cooling effect, somewhat like running water/meth injection all the time.

Running 30% more fuel also results in a dramatic emptying of the fuel tank.

We know that adding 10% ethanol reduces fuel economy by 2-3%.

E15 is 50% more ethanol, so we can expect what, 4-5% worse fuel economy?

Roughly, if you get 35mpg highway, you should expect about 33mpg with E15?

I remember complaints about the blend pumps at some point in the past. If I pump 20 gallons of E85, how much E85 is left in the hose/lines for the next person?

Particularly if the next person is filling a small tank like on a motorcycle.

 

[jlee]

Running 30% more fuel also results in a dramatic emptying of the fuel tank.

We know that adding 10% ethanol reduces fuel economy by 2-3%.

E15 is 50% more ethanol, so we can expect what, 4-5% worse fuel economy?

Roughly, if you get 35mpg highway, you should expect about 33mpg with E15?

I remember complaints about the blend pumps at some point in the past. If I pump 20 gallons of E85, how much E85 is left in the hose/lines for the next person?

Particularly if the next person is filling a small tank like on a motorcycle.

Ethanol is less energy-dense than gasoline, so a stoichiometric burn requires more fuel.

At every station I've seen, E85 has had dedicated pumps just like diesel does.