E2140 or X2 4000+?

[Alaa]

Which one to choose? I don't find any benches! I also need to know how far can they go in overclocking while maintaining reasonable temps on stock cooling.

Rest of upgrade:
Compatible Mobo
HD 3850 (unless the 256MB 88GT becomes available)
Corsair 2GB DD2-800 C5DHX

 

[PliotronX]

The former is the better choice because it can easily hit 3.2-3.4GHz, performs a bit faster clock-for-clock than the X2, and if you get one of the many decent P35 boards, you will have an upgrade path right into 45nm for 4GHz+ quad clocking goodness.

As far as stock cooling goes, expect more around 3GHz on the E2140, and the Pentium E series feature a non-permanent TIM for the IHS interface so the temps are warmer than equivalent higher range Intel chips. Temps will vary from setup to setup, but if you are concerned of heat output, enable EIST/C1E to dynamically downclock based on usage. The advantage of non-permanent TIM on the IHS interface is that you can remove the IHS without as much risk of damage as with the soldered or epoxied IHS. Expect around a 10 degree drop running Pentium E chips nekkid.

 

[Alaa]

In short, E2140... Because I just don't understand all this stuff you just said.

 

[BladeVenom]

Nehalem is coming out next year and will need a new chipset and DDR3. So if you go Intel you upgrade path is soon coming to an end without a completely new system. AMD's next CPU design, AM3, are suppose to still work in AM2 boards and be able to use DDR2.

Right now best performance looks to be Intel, but for upgrading an AMD system should last longer.

 

[Alaa]

Anyone knows where to find benches?

 

[NXIL]

Tom's Hardware CPU charts:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/...3&model2=917&chart=419

HTH

NXIL

 

[Alaa]

Thanks for the link. I just need to make sure of one thing: Will E2140 overclock to 2.5GHz (at least) on stock cooling?

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Alaa
Thanks for the link. I just need to make sure of one thing: Will E2140 overclock to 2.5GHz (at least) on stock cooling?

It should easily. I just upgraded from a X2 4400+ to a E2180(waiting for Penryn in Jan) and did my first oc of it last night. With little effort, I'm at 3ghz using the stock cooler.

 

[Alaa]

Well, What mobo do you have?

 

[Capt Caveman]

Abit IP-35 Pro

 

[Denithor]

e2160 @ 3.2GHz hangs with e6750 and nearly matches e6850 in many benchmarks. Read the article for more details.

I recommend an e2180 for the 10x multiplier (less strain on other system components because you don't have to push the FSB as high) and some good DDR2-667 memory (Kingston N5 is great).

For the motherboard, it really depends on what features you need. If you can find one, the abit IP35-E is awesome, great overclocking for very cheap price (as low as $60 after MIR recently). The IP35 is also nice, for around $125 (Mwave) it offers raid and firewire and the same superb overclocking performance. The IP35 Pro is a bit excessive for most people's needs and very expensive for about the same performance.

Another option would be the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L for about $90. Also good overclocking performance and nice feature set in a bargin board.

EDIT: These builds also offer the upgrade to a Penryn quad-core sometime next year (buy late in the year after Nehalem launches for good price and performance that will last another two years after that).

 

[Alaa]

What about the E4500? What difference will it make?

 

[Pain999]

The extra cache memory does help in some games and applications. Look at how the E4300 matches up to the E2140 which are at the exact same clock & bus speed. They should overclock on average to the same level. The E4500 should overclock better then the E4300 with a higher multiplier.

The only difference here is 2MB vs 1MB cache.
http://www23.tomshardware.com/...3&model2=882&chart=423

Now going to a E6XXX doubles the cache again @ 4MB, but the difference is not nearly as great as going from 1 to 2MB.

 

[GundamF91]

I am running E4500, with 333x10. The double of L2 cache is important enough that I think it's worth the extra cost. Like Pain999 said, 1 to 2 is significant, 2 to 4 is not as much.

 

[GundamF91]

For multipliers, E2140 will be 8x, E2160 is 9x, and E2180 is 10x. The E4500 is 11x.

You can clearly see that E4500 has greater potential for overclocking. Of course, this is not to say for sure, but the potential is there by virtue of the additional multiplier. If nothing else, it'll give you some flexibility to reduce FSB to match board and RAM capabilities. Also reduce some heat on Northbridge if necessary.

I can do 333x10, or 300x11. I can tell you that it seems 333x10 runs cooler for me. Also it gives better memory bandwidth.

 

[Comdrpopnfresh]

Originally posted by: PliotronX
The former is the better choice because it can easily hit 3.2-3.4GHz, performs a bit faster clock-for-clock than the X2, and if you get one of the many decent P35 boards, you will have an upgrade path right into 45nm for 4GHz+ quad clocking goodness.

As far as stock cooling goes, expect more around 3GHz on the E2140, and the Pentium E series feature a non-permanent TIM for the IHS interface so the temps are warmer than equivalent higher range Intel chips. Temps will vary from setup to setup, but if you are concerned of heat output, enable EIST/C1E to dynamically downclock based on usage. The advantage of non-permanent TIM on the IHS interface is that you can remove the IHS without as much risk of damage as with the soldered or epoxied IHS. Expect around a 10 degree drop running Pentium E chips nekkid.

so would you consider it a fairly safe move (in comparison to permanent TIM under the ihs) to remove it and run a hsf direct on the die?

 

[Comdrpopnfresh]

If you plan on quad-core penryn, whatever you do- DO NOT GO 680i. Stay with the p35 or x38 chipset.

 

[Alaa]

Thanks Gundam. I don't have any experience in overclocking so I am planning to use the pinned overclocking guide in this forum. If you have any additional tips, you are more than welcome to post them here.

 

[PliotronX]

Originally posted by: Comdrpopnfresh

Originally posted by: PliotronX
The former is the better choice because it can easily hit 3.2-3.4GHz, performs a bit faster clock-for-clock than the X2, and if you get one of the many decent P35 boards, you will have an upgrade path right into 45nm for 4GHz+ quad clocking goodness.

As far as stock cooling goes, expect more around 3GHz on the E2140, and the Pentium E series feature a non-permanent TIM for the IHS interface so the temps are warmer than equivalent higher range Intel chips. Temps will vary from setup to setup, but if you are concerned of heat output, enable EIST/C1E to dynamically downclock based on usage. The advantage of non-permanent TIM on the IHS interface is that you can remove the IHS without as much risk of damage as with the soldered or epoxied IHS. Expect around a 10 degree drop running Pentium E chips nekkid.

so would you consider it a fairly safe move (in comparison to permanent TIM under the ihs) to remove it and run a hsf direct on the die?

There is some degree of risk of chipping the core, but I do consider it safe as long as even pressure is applied during the heatsink installation. Some clip on designs of old (socket 939 comes to mind) tend to apply uneven pressure but some users were still able to run stock cooling on nekkid 939 chips. I believe the stock cooler for LGA775 installs differently and should be easier to install onto topless chips, but they are designed with the IHS in mind so overall pressure will be lessened. This may affect temps depending on how much pressure is lost. Generally it's best to use heatsinks that employ machine screws to mount with topless chips. My current setup is a topless Opteron 165 with a Tuniq Tower 120, never chipped any core even in the heyday of nekkid cores (P3/K7). IMO more risk of damage is involved in removing the IHS than damaging the core during heatsink installation. There are many guides for removal with either razor blade or dental floss, but one slip and a damaged capacitor could render it a keychain.

 

[Cstefan]

Tossing in here that I put in a P35-DS3L and a 2140, set my FSB to 375 and changed nothing else and got 3.0 stock volts but a Gemini II HSF instead of stock cooling. This was about 3 hours ago and it's been Orthos testing ever since.

 

[Regalk]

Originally posted by: Alaa
What about the E4500? What difference will it make?

Just changed my E2160 to a E4500 and the E4500 is much better - higher multiplier and easier overclock (less than 1 day and I am already fnished with my overclock - I was never sure when I would achieve an optimal O/C from my E2160 and I tried so many settings). 2mb cache certainly helps and for the price (approx $120) why bother with the E2XXX series. I am giving away my E2160 - real time waster (only cost about $80 though so no harm in playing around with it for a month or so)

My final overclock with the mothballed E2160 was 394 X 8 (stable). Now to go update my sig for the E4500 at 413 X 8