Yeah, ditto on the memory. It would kinda defeat the purpose of an E6300 setup if you spend $450 on memory
Originally posted by: harpoon84
E6300 users would be wise to spend a little more on DDR2-800 rated RAM instead (doesn't have to be the high end stuff like Corsair, they are ripoffs IMO) as they shouldn't have any problems reaching up to DDR2-1000 speeds and would ensure that the RAM isn't the limiting factor in the overclock.
Originally posted by: lopri
Also I'm hearing there is no "dividers" in DS3's BIOS, is that true? (couldn't believe it) What kind of divider options exist in this board?
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: harpoon84
E6300 users would be wise to spend a little more on DDR2-800 rated RAM instead (doesn't have to be the high end stuff like Corsair, they are ripoffs IMO) as they shouldn't have any problems reaching up to DDR2-1000 speeds and would ensure that the RAM isn't the limiting factor in the overclock.
Yeah, ditto on the memory. It would kinda defeat the purpose of an E6300 setup if you spend $450 on memory
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Gary Key
Originally posted by: lopri
How come every single thread turns to Intel vs AMD? I had a couple questions/comments regarding the original post and the subsequent comments, but after following this much I don't feel like bring them up.
Sigh..
Bigger Sigh.....
I am getting tired of it also. The only reason the thread was started was because of the "concerns" over the retail chips which have proven to be false. Both companies make excellent products, both are at incredible price points, and we as a consumer win based upon any choice we make between AMD and Intel. It will only get better the next couple of years. I can tell you as soon as the prices dropped that two 3800+ X2s were on their way to my house.
What are the questions?
Gary the last two 3800+'s I got are 3Ghz stable at minimal volts.. I think it's a better value than E6300 assuming that 2.5 -2.6Ghz is the best you got out of her. These allendale motherboards really worry me. First not hitting high enough FSB to take advantage of the low end chips with thier low multipliers.. Second, if they do hit over 400FSB, can they maintain those speeds for 24/7 usage? That's something I'd like to see... As you know to hit 3Ghz on a 3800+ all you need is 300Mhz "FSB" which almost all boards can do trivially and maintain those speeds as daily crunchers.
As of now, based on low overclocks you feeatured, I'm forced to spend on 6600/6700 for a decent multiplier to exceed what I have already. I really did'nt want to do that... I'd like to see a redo of "E6300 & E6400 - Value through Overclocking article " with more boards..maxing FSB and talking about longterm stabilty.
Originally posted by: Gary Key
Originally posted by: theteamaqua
heres what i think:
u coulda go much higher with ES5, but retails u jsut OCed were at maximum clock speed...
i have seen ES5 E6300 do 3.5GHz 7x500 , E6400: 3.8GHz 4x480
i think it was thoughtful of Anand to not OC so much on the ES5 chips, so that when people get their hands on the B2 stepping retail chips. They wont be disappointed.
all the ES5 chips just have better OCing potential thats all
The E6400 Retail is clocking better than the ES sample currently with a lower voltage setting. The board will boot from the bios at 450 and is 99.3% stable now, at 440 it passes all tests. I can boot at 8x460 but it is not stable. I can boot 440 and then use EasyTune up to 475 currently before it locks up. While there are higher numbers around, our board remains stock , boots with bios settings, does not have a fan on the MCH, and is using a 7950GX2/SB X-FI and a full XP load. The E6300 retail is having interesting results already.
Originally posted by: Duvie
Originally posted by: Gary Key
Originally posted by: theteamaqua
heres what i think:
u coulda go much higher with ES5, but retails u jsut OCed were at maximum clock speed...
i have seen ES5 E6300 do 3.5GHz 7x500 , E6400: 3.8GHz 4x480
i think it was thoughtful of Anand to not OC so much on the ES5 chips, so that when people get their hands on the B2 stepping retail chips. They wont be disappointed.
all the ES5 chips just have better OCing potential thats all
The E6400 Retail is clocking better than the ES sample currently with a lower voltage setting. The board will boot from the bios at 450 and is 99.3% stable now, at 440 it passes all tests. I can boot at 8x460 but it is not stable. I can boot 440 and then use EasyTune up to 475 currently before it locks up. While there are higher numbers around, our board remains stock , boots with bios settings, does not have a fan on the MCH, and is using a 7950GX2/SB X-FI and a full XP load. The E6300 retail is having interesting results already.
Shite Gary!!! That will work for me then!!! I have a reasonable shot at 4ghz with an E6600....9x440 will get me 3.96ghz....
What temps are you seeing???
Originally posted by: Gary Key
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Gary Key
Originally posted by: lopri
How come every single thread turns to Intel vs AMD? I had a couple questions/comments regarding the original post and the subsequent comments, but after following this much I don't feel like bring them up.
Sigh..
Bigger Sigh.....
I am getting tired of it also. The only reason the thread was started was because of the "concerns" over the retail chips which have proven to be false. Both companies make excellent products, both are at incredible price points, and we as a consumer win based upon any choice we make between AMD and Intel. It will only get better the next couple of years. I can tell you as soon as the prices dropped that two 3800+ X2s were on their way to my house.
What are the questions?
Gary the last two 3800+'s I got are 3Ghz stable at minimal volts.. I think it's a better value than E6300 assuming that 2.5 -2.6Ghz is the best you got out of her. These allendale motherboards really worry me. First not hitting high enough FSB to take advantage of the low end chips with thier low multipliers.. Second, if they do hit over 400FSB, can they maintain those speeds for 24/7 usage? That's something I'd like to see... As you know to hit 3Ghz on a 3800+ all you need is 300Mhz "FSB" which almost all boards can do trivially and maintain those speeds as daily crunchers.
As of now, based on low overclocks you feeatured, I'm forced to spend on 6600/6700 for a decent multiplier to exceed what I have already. I really did'nt want to do that... I'd like to see a redo of "E6300 & E6400 - Value through Overclocking article " with more boards..maxing FSB and talking about longterm stabilty.
I wish my 3800+ X2s were that good, hand picked out of the 0618 lot, have not got past 2.92GHz yet in a stable manner. In fact, one will not go past 2.79 or so. Luck of the draw and I lost. The motherboards are not really an issue (except for widespread availability and pricing but that issue will be resolved shortly), in fact we expect to see up to 500FSB stable shortly which is unheard of currently on the other side of the fence but the low multipliers are just killers for decent price/performance overclocks on the low end without investment in the memory, power supply, and cooling. That is one reason why I like the 3800+ X2 so much at this point in time but still clock for clock it is hard to resist the "Core".
I am running this E6400 system 24/7 at 435FSB currently, going to see how long it will go while being stress tested. The E6600 is my favorite Core 2 Duo although I like the 10x multiplier on the E6700 a lot better. I am sure we will follow-up in the near future once additional boards are released along with lower cost DDR2-800 to take a look at where the market is in regards to price/performance. One area that has been overlooked a little is in the media (audio/video) performance of the Core 2 Duo which is just fantastic. We will be concentrating on this area in further detail shortly. Thanks for the comments.
Edit- Have two new X3800 X2s coming, hopefully my luck will change.
Originally posted by: dexvx
What kind of moron wants to SLI 2 low end cards?
7600GT SLI <<< 7900GTX
Yet the 7900GTX costs about the same as the 7600GT SLI, consumes less power, and doesnt take up 2 slots.
Originally posted by: Zebo
Great to hear about the boards... It's definity reassuring to hear they can get high FSB and handle it longterm. However, now you bringing up power/heat and memory which I did'nt even consider would be a problem considering a) Core uses less power than X2 b) runs cooler and c)most memory can hit 400Mhz, even the cheap stuff with volts and high timings.D) boards and PSUs are made to handle those light dimming Presslers, Conore should be trivial :::::
Originally posted by: lopri
One of the issues I wanted to talk about is the advantage/disadvantage of frequencies of CPU, memory, and FSB, respectively. In this particular case (DS3), while the DS3 can push high FSB, without a capable set of memory, at some point you will eventually run into a dilemma - to give up 1:1 or not to give up. I'll take an example for easier understanding:
Example 1-
A. The FSB limit is 500.
B. Your memory does up to DDR2-800 and/or even though the FSB itself can be raised up to 500, it won't handle memory @1:1 due to the high stress on MCH
So if one were to maximize his/her CPU, he'd run the CPU @3.5GHz (7x500) with 4:3 divider which would result in DDR2-750. I'd certainly think the advantage of high CPU frequency will overshadow the less-than-ideal ratio. But what if the difference between Max FSB and Max memory gets smaller? Say;
Example 2-
A. The FSB limit is 470
B. Your memory seems fine up to DDR2-900.
Of course since we're assuming the CPU is not a variable (let's just think it's good up to 4.0GHz), if one were to go for the max CPU the final clock will be 3.4GHz (7x470), but would have to deal with the 3:4 ratio. Settling @2.15GHz (7x450) would allow 1:1 ratio between memory:FSB.
Now we know there is a definite penalty of memory running slower than FSB, the question becomes "to what degree". If one were to give up 1:1, how much more CPU MHz would need to be guaranteed? (if at all) It can become even more complicated since we know the FSB itself can and does affect the peformance. But for now I'd take the FSB itself out of equation unless its effect is bigger than the above mentioned siatuation.
Originally posted by: Gary Key
Hi Duvie,
The E6600s and up are different animals on this board. I will post some E6600 results in a couple of days. Due to the 4MB cache and hitting the 1066 memory strap earlier, these CPUs have not been clocking as high on the P965 boards (9x410 or so) unless you drop the mulitplier which defeats the purpose of buying one. The bios revisions are coming in hot and heavy right now. I already had three from Gigabyte today, one from Biostar, two from Asus and Foxconn.
Here is a good link discussing the memory strap issue on Intel chipsets (975X centric but the same rules apply overall). Gigabyte and Asus have their arms around it and everyone else is getting close now. - Memory Straps on Intel CPUs Article -
Also, do you remember way back to the Northwood days? Here is a blast from the past and it reminded me of the whole AMD versus Intel issue that seems to be in full swing again, not on your behalf but it shows that some of the most avid AMD users were once, gasp, huge supporters of Intel. Of course this belief was not based on the company but on the performance of the product like it should be. - Northwood Discussion -, I was Bingo13 at the time and fully admit to being a huge RDRAM freak. :laugh: I went from Athlon XP lover to Intel Northwood to Athlon 64 to Core 2 Duo in the last four years and yet a lot of us here still cannot get the message across that is all about being performance centric, not team centric. I can remember changing the crystals on the Harris and AMD 286s and being called out for it as it was a cheap way to outperform the twice as expensive Intel 286 at the time, lets not even discuss the 486DX wars. LOL... anyway, need to get back to testing so we have a meaningful Gigabyte review shortly.....
I am seeing temps around 24c (room temp is 22c) idle with the E6400 and moving up to 46c at full load (dual prime+) when overclocked with the Tuniq 120. That seems to be the worst case at this time, without the overclock and under full load (dual prime+) the temps hit around 39c, normal load (games, etc) is around 34C. I am still having a hard time understanding the Maximum PC article where there was only a 3C difference between idle and load.
Originally posted by: lopri
Gary, if you're doing an HSF review, can you add the new Thermalright Ultra-120? (If not already included) I've currently switched from Zalman 9500, and the performance seems excellent. My Tuniq is in my current rig where I'm typing so I can't take it out for comparison, but my feeling is the Ultra-120 is just as good as Tuniq 120.
Edit: Aye, I loved my RD-RAM and indeed I still have some sticks around. Wish someone came out with a i850E based Conroe board. I mean, they do it with 845, 865, etc. so why not?
Originally posted by: Cheng
Where do you get these bios revisions from and what have they fixed? Could I get a link?
They come from the engineering departments of the motherboard suppliers, however, most end up being posted here as an example within five minutes of release. Sometimes, the issue is not what they fix but what they break which is why they are beta until officially posted on the supplier's website.
Originally posted by: Pabster
Gary, do you have any measurements on the North Bridge heat generated on these boards? And any tests to show whether dropping an aftermarket cooling solution on the NB would make any significant difference?
Originally posted by: Gary Key
Have not tried a small 40mm fan yet or different cooling solution........ the best thing to do if you are running OC 24/7 is to add a good Northbridge cooler, Coolermaster Blue Ice NB comes to mind.....
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Gary Key
Have not tried a small 40mm fan yet or different cooling solution........ the best thing to do if you are running OC 24/7 is to add a good Northbridge cooler, Coolermaster Blue Ice NB comes to mind.....
What do you think of This Swiftech model?
Originally posted by: Gary Key
I should have known Swiftech would be brought up.... LOL...... I have one of those on the way along with the CM Blue Ice and Blue Ice Pro and this monster - The Big One. - I am sure the Swiftech would work great, going to pull a cheap nb fan/heatsink off an old motherboard tomorrow and try it.