E6600 Temperature nightmare :(

[jackrob]

Hello everyone, I built a new PC at Christmas, and I've had temperature problems with my CPU since the start. So I am hoping people here may be able to help me. Quick summary of gear, its an E6600, an Akasa Eclipse 62 case, and two 120mm low speed quiet case fans called Sharkoon 1000 golf ball fans. Oh, and the thermal paste is Akasa Pro Grade+ 6022 (which is evidently rated as 1 degree better than arctic silver).

Everything is running at stock speed all the time. All temperatures are using CoreTemp and Intel TAT (which I also use to put the CPU under load to check load temps).

So I fitted the chip to begin with, using the stock intel heatsink and fan. Idle temp was about 48C and full load was about 61C. I eventually found out that was bad, so I tried fitting it again, and it didn't help. So I bought an "Arctic Cooling 7 Pro" heatsink and fan because I heard it was very good. The temperatures went UP by 1 degree... I asked what other people where getting with that HSF, and everyone seemed to get a lot better than mine. People suggested I either didn't fit it tight enough, or that I used too much or too little thermal paste. So I cleaned the paste off with Akasa TIM Remover, and fitted it again with a tiny amount of paste. The temps didn't really change. So I cleaned again, and fitted it with lots of paste, and the temps where pretty much the same. I was never convinced it was fitted as tight as possible because of the horrible plastic clips that heatsink uses, so I tried fitting it again (7 times in total). The temperature never really improved, so I gave up. So for the past 6 months or so, I've been running it at about 48C idle, and under full load in TAT, it reached about 64C or so. (This is stock speeds remember).

Now the summer is here, I decided I needed to fix it once and for all, and I would also like to be able to overclock the chip eventually. So I bit the bullet and bought a "Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120" which seems to be about the best heatsink you can get at the moment. I couldn't find the fan I wanted for sale anywhere, so I settled with a Yate Loon which runs at 1350RPM. Its a little bit low for a heatsink fan, but the Arctic Cooling 7 Pro used to run at 1350RPM anyway, so I figured it should be enough considering the heatsink is better.

Anyway, I fitted it all today. I love how it screws onto the motherboard instead of the crappy plastic clips. It all screwed in perfectly, and when the screws get to their tightest position, they stop you from screwing it in any further. (The screw just stops in place and wont turn any more). So all 4 corners are screwed in as far as they can go. Strangely, I can still twist the heatsink slightly if use a bit of force. Its not wobbly or anything, and it seems very secure and doesn't shake or vibrate and when I move the PC it doesn't rattle or anything. But its not super tight because I can twist the heatsink a bit if I use some force. Is that normal? Also, I tried using a tiny bit of paste at first (half a grain of rice) right in the centre. And I also tried it with twice that amount. The temperatures where the same either way. Heres the temps now:

Idle 40C. Full load 55C (after a few minutes at full load). Again, this is using Intel TAT (and CoreTemp shows the same temps).

So I know these temps aren't dangerously high or anything. But the chip is running at stock speed and stock voltage, and this one of the best heatsinks available, so I was expecting the temps to be much better than this Ideally, I was hoping for 30C idle, and about 45C load.

Lastly, I tried replacing the Sharkoon 1000 case fans, with a pair of faster Noctua fans. It only shaved 1 degree off and they where too noisy so I swapped back. I also tried taking the sides off the case, and pointing a huge room fan directly at the CPU. That knocked about 5 or 6 degrees off.

So what do you guys make of this? What could be going wrong? I am happy that my PC is no longer at risk during the summer, but with those temperatures at stock, I wouldn't really be able to overclock without easily breaking 60C under load. Could I have a screwed up C2D? Or perhaps its not flat? I really don't want to lap it and void my warrenty. I would rather try to return it. Also, I called Intel and told them my old temperatures and they said that was just within specification so I shouldn't worry. I didn't mention I wanted to overclock it.

Thanks in advance. I'm pretty much stumped here now I've already spent more than I wanted to spend on this PC.


P.S. I know my case cooling could be better, but being very quiet is very important to me. Also, although 5 degrees is quite a lot cooler with the sides off and the room fan pointed it the CPU, thats a huge room fan running at a million RPM... so it doesn't seem normal that it needs that amount of "wind" to keep it below 50C under load. If I was using the stock heatsink and fan, I would be happy with these temps, but again, this is a killed heatsink so it should really be much better than this. I could buy a faster Yate Loon or a Scythe fan for the heatsink too (1600rpm or more even), but I'm not even convinced that would make all that much difference. With the huge room fan pointing directly at the CPU, it only helped by about 5 degrees. And the noise from a faster fan would pretty much ofset that 5 degree benefit. So yeah, I'm stumped Perhaps I'm asking too much to have a quiet PC and yet a C2D which runs at 50C or less when under load?

 

[PurdueRy]

Temperature sensors are notoriously unreliable...take those readings worth a grain of salt.

Especially if you aren't overclocking, temps are nothing to worry about.

In fact, even if you went over temperature, your CPU would simply clock itself down. Chips are a lot more difficult to fry than they use to be. So OCing shouldn't even be a problem. I would say with all you have done, the temp sensors are simply fvcked.

On the computer I built for my brother with the E6600 he gets 40C or so in a semi hot room with the Artic Cooling 7 HS/F. However, you know the sensors on his mobo are all messed up when its reporting that his CPU fan is going 10,000 RPM and that his 12V rail is running at 2V...

So like I said, I would just ignore them if everything is working correctly even in stress testing.

 

[tank171]

If this cant cool it, I dont know what can.

 

[Genx87]

What is your cases ambient temp? If it is high, then you have a case cooling issue.

 

[jackrob]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Temperature sensors are notoriously unreliable...take those readings worth a grain of salt.

Strange as it is to say, it would make my day if it was just the sensor Although, I'd really like to be able to overclock and I wouldn't want the chip throttling every 5 minutes. Not sure how I could determine if the sensor is really screwed or not I really don't want to have to buy one of those electronic thermometres. I've already gone way over budget on this pc. Argh.

Originally posted by: tank171
If this cant cool it, I dont know what can.

Hehe. I actually really thought hard about buying a water cooling kit. But I really just can't justify that cost I live in the UK so prices here are more than the US, and I've already gone way over budget on this PC Infact, the PC alone was a bit over budget, then I bought the AC7 Pro which was further over budget, and when that didn't work, I spent quite a lot on this Thermalright Ultra Extreme and the Yate Loon, so I'm even higher over budget now I really thought this would solve everything but it didn't

Originally posted by: Genx87
What is your cases ambient temp? If it is high, then you have a case cooling issue.

I can't get a temperature of the ambient case temp, but I have temperatures of all the other components. Theres 3 hard drives in there, and they are 31C, 31C, and 32C. And then theres the motherboard/chipset which is 44C. (Its a gigabyte DS4 revision 2).

So I'm not sure what to make of all that. Those temps look pretty good to me (well the hard disks are good, the chipset is about average from what I've read). So I can't really tell if I have an airflow problem or not really. The only test I did, was to take the sides off, and that knocked off a few degrees (which I assumed was normal).

By the way, theres just two case fans in this case, and the one at the front (which is at the bottom) has all 3 hard drives directly infront of it in the hard drive cage. So the air has to go through the 3 disks before it reaches anywhere else in the case. It keeps the disks cool, but I wonder if that could harm the other temperatures? Unfortunately, there isn't really anywhere else to put the hard disks I can remove the hard drive cage, but there isn't any room in the case to put it anywhere else.

 

[AmberClad]

Try downloading and running ThrottleWatch and see if it's reporting any throttling. I'd have to check to be sure, but I think those temps you listed are far above the rated operating temps for a C2D (and they're nearly on par with my Prescott).

EDIT: According to these charts, the max temperature for a C2D is 60.1C. You were seeing temps of up to 64C from the sensors. Hmmm...

 

[jkresh]

temps are well within rating operating and intel has admitted that coretemp does not actualy measure the core temperature of the cpu. What coretemp and TAT do is measure a seonsor on the cpu which counts down to 0 (at 0 it starts throtling because its too warm), they then convert that to a temp but that doesn't mean its all that accurate or even anymore accurate then the temp your motherboard utitlity would give (which is also inaccurate). Basically if you can run dual prime 95's for 24hours without a problem then your system is ok, and if you overclock and can keep prime95 stable then your are still ok. Since the cpu will throttle down automatically if it gets to warm there is little danger in damaging your cpu from temperature (now if you up the voltages you can still fry a cpu, but at stock volts its highly unlikely).

 

[jackrob]

Originally posted by: AmberClad
Try downloading and running ThrottleWatch and see if it's reporting any throttling. I'd have to check to be sure, but I think those temps you listed are far above the rated operating temps for a C2D (and they're nearly on par with my Prescott).

Thank you, I just downloaded that and I've got it running now.

As for the temps, I have compared them to other people on the internet quite a lot. I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure the temps are kind of average. The original temps where above average, although still below throttle temperature. But the temps I have now, are about average compared to the stock intel cooler (which is pretty poor..). The cooler I have now is about the best after-market cooler you can get, so I think it is meant to be about 10 degrees cooler. Obviously it varies depending on people's PC's and their ambient room temperature etc, but still, I'm pretty sure I'm about 10 degrees up Thats quite a bit margin too. It might improve by a degree or two when the paste "settles" (which can take 100 hour evidently). And I'm probably a few degrees higher than most people due to my low speed quiet case fans. But I still think its running too high, and I just can't figure out why

 

[lxskllr]

TAT is pretty accurate with regards to the core temp of the cpu. I haven't heard of bad readings from anyone on the forums I frequent. Conroes had problems with concave heat spreaders when they were first released. I don't know if they ever got that worked out, but that could be your problem. Take the heatsink off and carefully examine the paste that's on top. If it looks a little thicker in the center, or doesn't look like it was solidly squashed, that could be it.

If that's the case what you'll need to do is lap the cpu to make it flat. Many people are hardcore about it and go for a mirror finish, but I don't think that's necessary. All you really need is a good flat surface that'll mate well with your heatsink. Although I've never done that myself, I always thought a good whetstone would work well. You'd want one that's brand new, or at least little used so it's still flat and rub the cpu back and forth on the stone rotating the cpu 90 degrees every 6 strokes or so. If you go this route, don't use a synthetic stone. The best to use would be an natural Arkansas hard stone. You could try starting with a medium, but you'll have to be careful not to take too much off with the courser stone. Once it's flat your temps should improve.

I'm running 53C at idle with my fans turned down, and 63C at full load with my fans turned up with the rig in my sig.

 

[jackrob]

Thanks for the reply I'm still not sure if its flat or not. I really don't want to have to lap it because I would invalidate my warrenty. Also, when I took the heatsink off, the paste was squashed nicely. And the heatsink felt kind of stuck when taking it off, because the paste was holding it onto the chip nicely - so there was no air in there. (Or it would have come off easy).

Also, I'm starting to wonder if these are bad temps or not? I did more researching on google, and on one forum, everybody is talking about their temps being "40C, 35C, and 42C etc...." but in PC Wizard!!! PC Wizard checks the surface temperature not the core temp. So when I use PC Wizard, my temperature is 27C so I am much cooler than all those people.

So now I'm starting to wonder if my temps are ok? What has me worried, is that I am sure I have read people listing their temperatures using "IntelTAT" and "CoreTemp", and its those which show my temps as 42C Idle and 55C Load. - Which I am pretty sure is a fair bit higher than other people.

-----------edit------------

Ok I am back to thinking my temperatures are bad I did some research again on google and this is what I found:

"I have a 6600 running at 3.6ghz 400 fsb. 1.425 Vcore. I get 43*C in coretemp - goes up to 48*C when it is hot out."

So basically, that person has about the same temperature as me, only he is overclocked to a huge 3.6Ghz compared to my stock 2.4Ghz. And heres someone else on a completely different forum:

"I am running an E6600 with a scythe ninja plus. I have it overclocked at 3.4 ghz right now (378 fsb) and it seems to be pretty stable. I'm using the 1.4125 vcore setting. My idle temps are 44c using core temp. With dual torture tests in prime 95 it gets up to about 56c."

So, his temps are almost identical to mine, but he is OC'd to 3.4. Im at stock.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Your temps are a little high but not bad, you IHS is probably not completely flat but lapping it would likely only help a few degrees.

As said by someone else TAT and coretemp use the countdown sensor which counts down to the throttle temp or Tjunction which is 85c for most C2D's. I also have the Ultra 120 extreme, and my load temps are in the mid 50's at 3.0ghz on an E6400. With my max overclock of 3.3ghz it hits mid to high 60's. I also overclocked it on the stock HSF before I upgraded, and at 3.3ghz my load temps would hit 80c:shocked:

 

[leekirlew]

Have you looked for a bios update? My old abit board had a problem like this which a bios update fixed

 

[jedisponge]

I was always under the impression that TAT and CoreTemp measured "core temperatures", which usually translates to being 3-5 degrees higher than "cpu temperatures." Meaning, 40 degrees on TAT means a CPU temp around 35 degrees.

If that's the case, your temperatures are better than average.

 

[jackrob]

Yeah got a bios update. I was hoping that was the problem too, but it seems not

As for the temps, they aren't terrible, but its just frustrating that I see people talking about their temps in CoreTemp and IntelTAT, and they are running cooler than me - even with an overclocked chip.

Its cold here this morning, and my hard disks are all running at 27C. But the CoreTemp is still 40C with the PC completely idle. People have a similar temperature to that, but overclocked to beyond 3Ghz. This is also a brand new heat sink + fan, and they are meant to be about the best you can get

I'm starting to think about maybe lapping the CPU, but I really didn't want to have to to do that.

 

[bfdd]

edit

 

[jackrob]

I decided I'm just going to buy a faster fan for the Thermalright.

I really need to find one that is as quiet as possible, but pushes a good amount of air.

I'm currently using a Yate Loon but its a low speed one which only runs at about 1360RPM. Its perfect for when my PC is idle, but it can't go any faster. My old fan would run at 1360RPM idle, but under load, the BIOS made the fan get faster, and it went up to a little over 2000RPM.

So I really need to find a fan that can reach that kind of speed, and yet when throttled back to 1360RPM, it is very quiet and still efficient. The only one I have had recommended is the Yate Loon - High Speed. People told me I won't find quieter than that (they said its even quieter than the Scythe fans), but I can't find it for sale anywhere here in the UK Thats the only reason why I bought this 1360RPM Yate Loon instead.

------edit------
I just called the place where I bought the CPU, and I can't really replace it They said they would test it and if it ran within a safe range, they would just return the chip to me and then I would be charged for the test So I am sure they would test it with a fast fan and it would probably hover about 59*C which is within safe limits

 

[Noubourne]

What is your room temperature?

Also, it's pretty clear that this guy:

"I have a 6600 running at 3.6ghz 400 fsb. 1.425 Vcore. I get 43*C in coretemp - goes up to 48*C when it is hot out."

is talking about IDLE temps only, so ignore it. Idle temps are meaningless. Only concern yourself with load.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: jackrob
Thanks for the reply I'm still not sure if its flat or not. I really don't want to have to lap it because I would invalidate my warrenty. Also, when I took the heatsink off, the paste was squashed nicely. And the heatsink felt kind of stuck when taking it off, because the paste was holding it onto the chip nicely - so there was no air in there. (Or it would have come off easy).

Also, I'm starting to wonder if these are bad temps or not? I did more researching on google, and on one forum, everybody is talking about their temps being "40C, 35C, and 42C etc...." but in PC Wizard!!! PC Wizard checks the surface temperature not the core temp. So when I use PC Wizard, my temperature is 27C so I am much cooler than all those people.

So now I'm starting to wonder if my temps are ok? What has me worried, is that I am sure I have read people listing their temperatures using "IntelTAT" and "CoreTemp", and its those which show my temps as 42C Idle and 55C Load. - Which I am pretty sure is a fair bit higher than other people.

-----------edit------------

Ok I am back to thinking my temperatures are bad I did some research again on google and this is what I found:

"I have a 6600 running at 3.6ghz 400 fsb. 1.425 Vcore. I get 43*C in coretemp - goes up to 48*C when it is hot out."

So basically, that person has about the same temperature as me, only he is overclocked to a huge 3.6Ghz compared to my stock 2.4Ghz. And heres someone else on a completely different forum:

"I am running an E6600 with a scythe ninja plus. I have it overclocked at 3.4 ghz right now (378 fsb) and it seems to be pretty stable. I'm using the 1.4125 vcore setting. My idle temps are 44c using core temp. With dual torture tests in prime 95 it gets up to about 56c."

So, his temps are almost identical to mine, but he is OC'd to 3.4. Im at stock.

THAT is your problem

When you go from stock voltage to 1.4V+ you have just effectively doubled your cpu's original heat output.

Without good cooling at those settings, your temps are bound to get hot.


HAve you tried a flat test to see if your ihs isnt warped? Put the sharp side of a razor perpedicular to your cpu ihs. If you see a lot of light shine though the bottom, it means its not flat.

Also op, when you see temps like these:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/ApogeeGTX.jpg

These are what i like to call e-penis screenies. These are uber low temps on watercooling. So no, i dont think you will ever get close to these temps on air, unless you lived in the south pole

 

[bfdd]

edit

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: jackrob
Ideally, I was hoping for 30C idle, and about 45C load.

???

You want it to idle colder than body temperature?

Originally posted by: bfdd
I'm at 3.3ghz atm barely cracking 22-23C core temps

Around 71º Farenheit? That's colder than it is in my room right now.

WTF people?

First thing is that most temp sensors are off by at least a bit.

Second thing is that the temperature inside your case is always hotter than the temperature in your room.

Third thing is that the temperature of your CPU is always hotter than the temperature in your case.

Fourth thing is that most modern CPUs are rated to extremely high temperatures and unless you are doing some crazy overclocking/overvolting, just stop worrying about it.

Fifth thing is... don't believe everything you read on the intarweb.

Let's say it is around 80º F in your room. That's around 27º C. So, the temperature inside your case will be a bit higher, let's say closer to 95º F (just below body temperature). That's 35º C. Your CPU should be a bit hotter than the air inside your case, so let's just say it is 110º F, which is a few degrees higher than someone who has a fever. That makes it 43º C. If you were to touch your 43º C processor, it would barely be warm to your finger since your body temperature is around 37º C.

TRANSLATION: If your CPU is barely warm to the touch, it is not running too hot.

 

[bfdd]

Zap, this is a NEW chip. My other one which something happened too(probably cause of the Zalman 9700 I had on it) started getting WAY to hot. Like 38C idle at 2.4ghz(stock) with the SAME HSF(Vigor Monsoon II) I'm using ont his new one. That one was getting to hot I was idling WAY hot at 3.3ghz. I want to push this one to 3.6ghz but I'm to happy with how stable it is right now

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: jackrob
Ideally, I was hoping for 30C idle, and about 45C load.

???

You want it to idle colder than body temperature?

Originally posted by: bfdd
I'm at 3.3ghz atm barely cracking 22-23C core temps

Around 71º Farenheit? That's colder than it is in my room right now.

WTF people?

First thing is that most temp sensors are off by at least a bit.

Second thing is that the temperature inside your case is always hotter than the temperature in your room.

Third thing is that the temperature of your CPU is always hotter than the temperature in your case.

Fourth thing is that most modern CPUs are rated to extremely high temperatures and unless you are doing some crazy overclocking/overvolting, just stop worrying about it.

Fifth thing is... don't believe everything you read on the intarweb.

Let's say it is around 80º F in your room. That's around 27º C. So, the temperature inside your case will be a bit higher, let's say closer to 95º F (just below body temperature). That's 35º C. Your CPU should be a bit hotter than the air inside your case, so let's just say it is 110º F, which is a few degrees higher than someone who has a fever. That makes it 43º C. If you were to touch your 43º C processor, it would barely be warm to your finger since your body temperature is around 37º C.

TRANSLATION: If your CPU is barely warm to the touch, it is not running too hot.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Zap just went BSOD!

But he's correct. Your looking at watercooling temps with a big radiator here. Screenies like mine with low Load temps, are e-penis screenies, which no one can possibly do with AIR.

 

[Comdrpopnfresh]

Originally posted by: jackrob
Thanks for the reply I'm still not sure if its flat or not. I really don't want to have to lap it because I would invalidate my warrenty. (

not sure- but if you've used something other than stock hsf or even swap out the TIM, then I think that voids the warranty. If the processor was OEM, it only had a 30 day warranty anyhow. At the very least, I'd lap one of the HSFs. If you don't want to possibly screw up the 120, just do it to the intel stock one. If you see an improvement, or your warranty runs up, try it on the IHS.

 

[Comdrpopnfresh]

If you have to buy a new chip- I'd be interested in buying your current one.

 

[heartsurgeon]

i just built a new e6600 system for use in a HD HTCP.
Gigabyte motherboard

i use the stock intel fan on the e6600.
it is very quiet (this is supported by testing reported here
Anandtech

and obviously, if it is the "stock" fan, it provides sufficient cooling per the manufacturer.

yes, other fans can cool better, and allow greater overclocking, but
none of the fans were quieter than the stock fan!!

I suppose if you want a passive CPU cooler, that would obviously be quieter