E8400 motherboard: non SLI/CF, 6SATA. what to choose?

[taltamir]

I am looking for a motherboard for an E8400 processor. I don't want either SLI or CF, but I am willing to buy a board that supports it (and just not use it) if needed.
But what should I choose?

I am keenly familiar with the AMD motherboard offerings but rather clueless about the intel ones.

It is my understanding that P35 motherboards are all around good, obsoleting older designs (especially with their 100$ price tag). But what about DDR2 capable X38 motherboards? how do they justify the extra 120$ or so over the P35?

I also currently have 5 hard drives. A SATA raptor (OS drive), and two SATA RAID1 storage arrays (500GB and 750GB).
I have created those arrays on an nforce4 motherboard, moved them to an nforce 2 motherboard, then to an nforce570ultra... every time I just had to plug both drives in and enable raid in the bios for it to auto detect the arrays (compared to raid5 arrays which were a huge pain, and had more risk of loosing my data then a lone drive).

So Basically I HAVE to have 6 SATA plugs on my motherboard (1 for the DVD burner as well). And I would really like for them all to be working off the chipset (not additional controllers, those are trouble) and support for RAID1. I know that intel supports it, but I wonder if transferring the array would be as painless as it was transferring it between nvidia motherboards.
If it allows you to take a single drive and convert it to a raid1 array by duplicating its data unto a second drive it will be sufficiently painless.

Even before I go into overclocking I noticed the following things:
1. The only nvidia intel offerings with 6SATA plugs are the 680i SLI and the 780i SLI... so thats 230$ minimum cost there. not pretty.
2. Intel has the ability to combine different south bridges with the same north bridge, this is confusing. What are the different ones? unlike the easy to read and understand chart put forth by nvidia, I cannot find any direct feature comparison between the intel southbridge chipsets.


Ok, I have found out what seems to be the answer to my problems. The ICH9R southbridge. That has 6 SATA2 off of the southbridge. combined with a P35 north bridge I get a very attractive overall package.
How would you rate this motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128050

 

[Doclife]

This P35 mobo has 6 native SATA plugs and 2 additional SATA plugs from additional on-board controller. It also support 45nm CPU off the bat too and cost around $127.

http://www.gigabyte.us/Product...oductName=GA-EP35-DS3R

 

[taltamir]

Thank you doclife. I just found the P35-DS3R as you were posting (I refreshed this page and then edited... so it must have been withing 30 seconds of each other)..
You found the EP35-DS3R... I am currently looking into what the difference is between the EP and P versions...

If I want to do some overclocking with the E8400, would this be sufficient? Or should I go for the higher end X38 boards? (I am wondering in a bang for buck comparison... how much more OC room would I Get from that extra 100$ towards a mobo)

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: Doclife
This P35 mobo has 6 native SATA plugs and 2 additional SATA plugs from additional on-board controller. It also support 45nm CPU off the bat too and cost around $127.

http://www.gigabyte.us/Product...oductName=GA-EP35-DS3R

Yeah, I've got the non raid version of that board, and it's quite nice. The board is good for around 500FSB with a fan on the northbridge. Seems like it would fit the bill for you. You may also want to check out the Abit IP-35 non pro.

 

[Tempered81]

abits ip35 is nice, gigabytes p35 ds3r is nice, this bloodiron by DFI is great too:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...36038&Tpk=blood%2biron

and theres always asus

5th brand choice would be MSI

 

[taltamir]

Asus opts to only use 4 out of the 6 SATA ports provided by their ICH9R chipsets, and then adds 2 SATA + 1 ATA port using their own controller. for a total of 6/2.
Gigabyte uses all 6SATA ports provided by the ICH9R and then adds unto that 2 SATA + 1 ATA using their own controller. for a total of 8/2.

Asus has always been my first choice but since they refuse to use 6SATA from the built in chipset I must pass them over for this specific upgrade, a shame.

Thank you guys so much for the assistance. I am now comparing all the boards you have suggested. The gigabyte EP35 blah blah is not available ANYWHERE (I checked 8 major etailers). Only the P35 version. The P35 revision 2 adds the energy efficient features that the EP35 claims... So I am wondering if there is any difference between revision 2 P and the EP.

Doclife, you mentioned it cost 129$, do you have a link? I would gladly take it if I could find somewhere to buy it from.
Frys.com lists the GA-P35-DS3R for 129$, if they have it in stores it will be the best. Since I prefer to get the motherboard from frys (so I can quickly exchange it if something is wrong, which is quite often the case with motherboards). I will check with frys tommorow morning.

 

[Doclife]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Thank you doclife. I just found the P35-DS3R as you were posting (I refreshed this page and then edited... so it must have been withing 30 seconds of each other)..
You found the EP35-DS3R... I am currently looking into what the difference is between the EP and P versions...

If I want to do some overclocking with the E8400, would this be sufficient? Or should I go for the higher end X38 boards? (I am wondering in a bang for buck comparison... how much more OC room would I Get from that extra 100$ towards a mobo)

The EP35-DS3R is basically a newer revision (rev 2.1) of the P35-DS3R motherboard. The EP35-DS3R has a new energy savings feature called DES (Dynamic Energy Saving) which will turn on only the necessary power phase to the CPU as load demanded. The EP35 also have other minor improvements. Other than that both boards are the same. Don't waste money on the X38 board, P35 board can overclock like crazy. In addition, X38 boards are new and will probably have bugs. My rule is to never buy revision 1.0 of anything.


http://www.tweaktown.com/artic...er_detailed/index.html


Note: Only Rev 2.1 (EP35-DS3R) have the necessary hardware built-in to utilize the DES function. If you buy rev 2.0 (P35-DS3R), you will NOT have the DES function.

If you buy from Fry's , make sure that you buy at least Rev 2.0. Fry's B&M still have Rev 1.0 on their shelves last time I visited there.

 

[Doclife]

You can buy the Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R from ncixus.com for $129.22. They have it in stock.

http://www.ncixus.com/products...Motherboards/#Gigabyte

 

[taltamir]

jaredpace, that DFI board you found looks very attractive, it offers SATA ports but it seems like all six are using the ICH9R chipset, with the additonal chipset only being used for the ATA.

It is also 110$, cheaper then the gigabyte...

From what I read the P revision 2.1 and EP are completely identical. The EP merely gaurentees that you are getting a revision 2.1 board that supports the energy savings. (lower hardware revisions do not).
So far I have only found two websites selling the EP... and they are both selling them in canada. So while very attractive, I simply cannot find anyone selling it.

EDIT: thank you doclife, NCIX is one of the two sites selling them in canada. But I couldn't check if they are available in NCIXUS because it kept on giving me an error when searching (only for the past hour or so, it normally works fine). I figured since the other 8 websites didn't find anything it probably didn't as well but apparently it DOES. Thank you for the direct link.

 

[Tempered81]

personally i was going to go with the ga-p35-ds4 or ds3p. I didnt need all the raid you need, but i liked gigabyte for the bios and overclocking. i read how well the abit ip35-e overclocks, and saw that 60000 people have that board, so when i saw it for 60 bucks, i nabbed it.

 

[taltamir]

Yea, that is a very good choice. I just have so much data to store. So the RAID requirements are limiting my choices.
Right now my options are the gigabyte or that DFI blood iron. The blood iron is 20$ cheaper. But the gigabyte is now available with that nifty Energy efficient ability and I am told it is an excellent OCer by avalon. (500fsb... would mean oc from 3ghz to 4ghz... which is very nice).
I am also a bit weary that the blood iron is actually using 4 SATA of the 6 on the chipset, and the other 2 coming from the 3rd party IDE controller providing ATA. (like asus is doing) and is simply describing it incorrectly in the specs. With the gigabyte I am certain there are 6 from the ICH9R and 2 from the controller for a total of 8.

Even the direct link doesn't seem to work with NCIXUS right now, no matter what I try doing in the website I am getting errors... I will try again tommorow morning. I am sure it will be resolved by then.

Thank you everyone for your wonderful suggestions and guidance. It really helped narrow down my research, and cross referencing with what you have been posting helped a lot.
Right now the plan is to get the gigabyte EP35-DS3R, combine with a e8400, keep everything else I currently have, and probably try to OC it... (I am normally not one to OC but the OC levels people are getting with those chipsets and way too tempting)

 

[Tempered81]

ds3r for $122 + ship
http://www.clubit.com/product_...830711&cmp=OTC-fr00g13

 

[taltamir]

I ordered the EP from NCIXUS... it had a hefty 20$ shipping and handling, making it a total of 150$.
I ordered the e8400 from mwave with fedex express saver (3 days) for 209+ shipping for total of $217.93
I would have added another 2 dollars for 2nd day shipping but since the NCIX order is shipping ground I didn't wanna unnecessarily rush it.

I am bothered that most places I look at say there are no refunds for CPUs, and all of them either say 15% restocking fee for DOA, or "at their discretion" 15% restocking fee...
Not what I was used to from when newegg was good, but with newegg pulling that stuff now too, and charging ridiculous prices...

Total upgrade cost 370$. Not bad. Compared to my X2 3800 (2ghz) I expect 3x the performance in most cases, and close to 6x in things like divx encoding (thanks to SSE4).
And this one should actually OC, while my current rig cannot.

EDIT: Thanks for the link jared, it comes out to 20$ less with shipping.
I already ordered though, also this is the revision 2 P35. only revision 2.1 is the same as the EP35. But I doubt that the power savings feature will really save 20$ worth of electricity...

 

[Dadofamunky]

Dude. Check the mobo in my sig. the new one. It's the best I've ever used, and I would recommend it to any one. I guess I'm too late, though.

 

[taltamir]

I have looked at that board myself early on, and discarded it with all the others who did not do a complete implementation of the ICH9R SATA capability.

The Asus P5E-VM HDMI board only has 4SATA plugs on the built in controller. and 2 on a seperate controller. That does not fit my needs, so unfortunately I was unable to buy asus this time.

However gigabyte is my second favorite supplier (with MSI coming third, DFI however is unknown to me... so I cannot judge it as good or bad)

 

[Avalon]

DFI would have been a good choice also. I used to use DFI boards back in the Nforce 3 and 4 days, they were the best. The BloodIron wasn't out when I got my Gigabyte DS3L though. No matter, I'm still very happy with my current board.

 

[aussiestilgar]

Originally posted by: jaredpace
ds3r for $122 + ship
http://www.clubit.com/product_...830711&cmp=OTC-fr00g13

I bought this board about a week ago and to my delight I received the rev 2.1. Another difference between 2.1 and 2.0 is support for DDR2-1200 (OC).

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: taltamir
I have looked at that board myself early on, and discarded it with all the others who did not do a complete implementation of the ICH9R SATA capability.

The Asus P5E-VM HDMI board only has 4SATA plugs on the built in controller. and 2 on a seperate controller. <snip>

Oh, that's interesting. Why would that be an issue? Just curious.

 

[lopri]

Taltamir: Where did you read that only 4 out of 6 SATA ports are via ICH9R? (P5E-VM) I'm about to order that board and while I don't need 6 disk array for an HTPC, I can't think of a good reason why ASUS would use something else when ICH9R supports 6 SATA drives natively.

 

[DerComissar]

Originally posted by: taltamir
I ordered the EP from NCIXUS... it had a hefty 20$ shipping and handling, making it a total of 150$.
I ordered the e8400 from mwave with fedex express saver (3 days) for 209+ shipping for total of $217.93
I would have added another 2 dollars for 2nd day shipping but since the NCIX order is shipping ground I didn't wanna unnecessarily rush it.

I am bothered that most places I look at say there are no refunds for CPUs, and all of them either say 15% restocking fee for DOA, or "at their discretion" 15% restocking fee...
Not what I was used to from when newegg was good, but with newegg pulling that stuff now too, and charging ridiculous prices...

Total upgrade cost 370$. Not bad. Compared to my X2 3800 (2ghz) I expect 3x the performance in most cases, and close to 6x in things like divx encoding (thanks to SSE4).
And this one should actually OC, while my current rig cannot.

EDIT: Thanks for the link jared, it comes out to 20$ less with shipping.
I already ordered though, also this is the revision 2 P35. only revision 2.1 is the same as the EP35. But I doubt that the power savings feature will really save 20$ worth of electricity...

Glad to hear you ordered the Gigabyte mobo. I had a Gigabyte P965-DS3 and it ran my E6400@3600 daily. I sold it to a friend and it's still going strong. I follow your post with interest as I have now upgraded to a Gigabyte P35-DS3R. That EP version is news to me, but strangely enough, my board is also a revision 2.1, but not the EP version. And I also bought it from NCIX. I am currently running an E6850 but couldn't resist ordering an E8400 which just arrived today.
Keep us posted on your new setup, we may be able to share some bios settings for the Wolfdale

 

[taltamir]

EP version is the same as the revision 2.1
They figured they could sell it for more and add a letter to the name

Originally posted by: lopri
Taltamir: Where did you read that only 4 out of 6 SATA ports are via ICH9R? (P5E-VM) I'm about to order that board and while I don't need 6 disk array for an HTPC, I can't think of a good reason why ASUS would use something else when ICH9R supports 6 SATA drives natively.

The ICH9R is the raid version of the ICH9 south bridge. It provides up to 6SATA ports with their advanced raid functions (such as different raids on the same drives) and ZERO ATA ports and ZERO floppy ports.
Every single ICH9R based motherboard has a third party floppy controller, and a third party ATA controller... however almost all the third party ATA controllers are actually double controllers, providing 2SATA ports and 1 IDE port (for two devices).

The specifications for that motherboard are VERY clear that they are only using 4 of the 6 SATA ports available from the southbridge, with the other two being provided by the same controller that provides the IDE port.
If the third party controller asus chose to use does NOT have an option to not use ports, it might have been simpler to include them and disable 2 of the ports on the southbridge. That or they thought you would get better preformance by having two seperate chips performing the raid calculations (but with their raid supporting only 0 and 1 that shouldnt be an issue)

The gigabyte board I got uses ICH9R as well, but it implements all 6 SATA ports from the south bridge, AND adds 2 SATA ports & 1 IDE port from the third party controller (and it also has a floppy controller).

The reason I wanted them all off of the south bridge is because I have a lot of experience with such configurations and using a third party controller consistently causes problems. Also the raid functions of the intel chipset are much superior, being the best available right now.

 

[Doclife]

I too, would be interested to know how your OC go with the EP35-DS3R/E8400 combo. My parents is in need of a computer and I'm thinking about giving my system to them and build a new system with the EP35-DS3R/E8400 combo myself. Please keep us update. Thanks in advance.

 

[taltamir]

sure thing. I will make sure to post it as soon as I get it...
That being said, the mobo is gonna be shipped ground. I say gonna because it hasn't been shipped yet.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: taltamir
The specifications for that motherboard are VERY clear that they are only using 4 of the 6 SATA ports available from the southbridge, with the other two being provided by the same controller that provides the IDE port.

Well, the reason I asked was because the specification from ASUS was NOT clear. Only thing that tells me they're using only 4 out of 6 available SATA ports from ICH9R is the different color. I looked at the specification as well as manual, and I couldn't get a clear answer on it - which is why I ask where you've read/heard of it.

Either way, I am probably looking into this board for a very different reason than yours, so it's no biggie. I was just curious about it.

 

[taltamir]

oh, oops I was looking at a different motherboard. That one actually indicates that all 6 are on the south bridge, but with the color coding indicating otherwise. I looked at ALL the P35 motherboards from asus and none of them had 6 SATA ports on the southbridge. (although many could). That motherboard that was suggested here was a G33 motherboard, so it had built in video... thats why I overlooked it.