E8500 mild overclock question.

[Miganto]

Hi, i'm nearing buying a new pc, and had a ram question, but i might be able to get an answer by asking a cpu question

I am buying a zalman 9500a http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835118223 for my e8500. I was wanting to OC to 3.8GHz at first. Will this fan be sufficient for that?

If so, i was wondering if it might also allow for the cpu to be clocked at ~4.3GHz. I realise the 8500's are versatile, but am not sure if this cooler can take the heat output. If not, then i'll stick to (hopefully) 3.8GHz, and my ram question is answered too

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: Miganto
Hi, i'm nearing buying a new pc, and had a ram question, but i might be able to get an answer by asking a cpu question

I am buying a zalman 9500a http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835118223 for my e8500. I was wanting to OC to 3.8GHz at first. Will this fan be sufficient for that?

If so, i was wondering if it might also allow for the cpu to be clocked at ~4.3GHz. I realise the 8500's are versatile, but am not sure if this cooler can take the heat output. If not, then i'll stick to (hopefully) 3.8GHz, and my ram question is answered too

I think you could get a better cooler for the money, and certainly better for an inconsequentially greater price. But that cooler is [EDIT more than] adequate.

Going from 3.16 Ghz to 3.8 is a 20% over-clock; load voltage may not exceed even the retail-label maximum spec by any significant degree. You might easily get to 4.0 or above. But (cautious though I may be) -- if I start to wince a bit at the reported voltages for my E8600 @ 4.25 Ghz -- I'd say you WILL find your temperatures pushing as high as 80C under LinPack stress-testing. The Zalman cooler may still be fine.

Temperature increases with the square of the voltage, and is linear with the speed itself.

But -- like I said -- " . . . . better cooler for the money . . . . " Personally, I'm always willing to buy the aftermarket cooler that has THE lowest thermal resistance, or best performance in comparison reviews. You're going to find your most comfortable limit by trial and error, anyway.

If this is a newer model of the 9500, I'd only guess that you could gauge its relative performance by checking the cumulative Anandtech benchtest comparison reviews. It's likely to be listed there in comparison to ThermalRight, Noctua and other coolers.

 

[Miganto]

Do you have any suggestions on better coolers for the tiny addition in price? I don't have many options from where i am, but i can check against any that you suggest and see if they're available here =) It can reach 38-40 degrees here in the summer, so a slightly better cooler might be a good idea. I don't want to push the cpu hard, or OC too much, i was just wanting to boost it's output a bit, without too many side effects. I'll look into how much voltage (if any) increase i'd need to get to 3.8 elsewhere, i don't want to seem lazy!

/just seen your edit, will check it out =)

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: Miganto
Do you have any suggestions on better coolers for the tiny addition in price? I don't have many options from where i am, but i can check against any that you suggest and see if they're available here =) It can reach 38-40 degrees here in the summer, so a slightly better cooler might be a good idea. I don't want to push the cpu hard, or OC too much, i was just wanting to boost it's output a bit, without too many side effects. I'll look into how much voltage (if any) increase i'd need to get to 3.8 elsewhere, i don't want to seem lazy!

/just seen your edit, will check it out =)

There may be more info in the "Cases & Cooling" forum -- what had been a frequent haunt of mine. I went back to Anandtech's articles for "cases, cooling and PSU's" to see if they hadn't updated their heatpipe-cooler comparison, but all I find is the last I had seen earlier last year, when I was preparing to build my Wolfdale system:

Comparison review focusing on the Noctua NH-U12P

There have been sporadic comparison reviews since then -- some I've seen at the FrostyTech web-site. I don't like Frosty's way of (inadequate) controlling their testbed for the same CFM and other factors like noise.

The Anandtech review shows results for a Zalman CNPS-9700. I can't be sure how the 9500a compares to it. Did Zalman modify the cooler-base design to make it a "direct-touch" cooler? I don't know. By comparison (90mm vs 120mm fan accommodations), the TR-Ultima-90 falls short of the TR-Ultra-120-Extreme (called "TRUE" around these forums).

Top performer for thermal resistance and heat-dissipation is probably the ThermalRight or TR IFX-14. It takes up a lot of space in your computer case, and you need to consider the weight factor if you plan to mount fans on it directly. Otherwise, you could install it so that air is pulled through it by the exhaust fan, and a pusher fan might even be mounted to the case or the rear of a drive cage:

ThermalRight IFX-14

By all rights, given my earlier obsession with lo-tech cooling solutions and thermal-resistance measures, I should be using an IFX 14 myself. But the Wolfdales are only 65W TDP-rated CPUs, and probably just exceed 100W or so when over-clocked, so I'm using the Noctua NH-U12P.

Lissen. I haven't looked at any reviews for the CNPS-9500A, and you should do yourself a favor and search around for a benchtest review that compares it to something. I just did a search, and so far only found a review going back to 2005. It was compared to an Asetek (lackluster) heatpipe cooler and a Koolance water-cooling kit. I'd like to see it compared to the ThermalRights, the latest Xigmatek "direct-touch" and the Noctua. The only such comparison is that in the Anandtech link I've given for the CNPS-9700, and I can't see how the 9500 would be better than the 9700. It may be worth looking into, but I'd bet that many of our colleagues here would recommend a TRUE, Noctua, Xigmatek etc.

If you can accommodate the size -- do the research and plan the fan deployment for the IFX-14. You don't need the accessory "under-the-board" cooler that comes with it.

If you only want to do a "mild" over-clock as you say with the E8500, it should probably get you to 3.8 Ghz. As I may have said, the voltage is the biggest factor in thermal wattage. I had my E8600 set to 1.30V to achieve 4.1 Ghz using my Noctua cooler, and the CPU_Z measured voltage was only about 1.25V under LinPack or IntelBurnTest loads. So the peak load temperature was about 65 to 68C under 73F-plus room-ambient. A lot of people here would call that "sissy-cool."

 

[Miganto]

Thanks, a very helpful reply there I'll get this moved/make a new thread in the cooler section if people think it'd be a better idea. The post was initially about a cpu, but i have changed it to a cooler question i guess

I think the reviews i found were from at least 1 year ago, most were a bit more, but they were using the HSinks on c2d's, so i thought it best to get my info from there as it'd be the style of processor i'd use.

I also, as you said at the end, only want to do a very mild overclock, and don't want a huge over-the-top fan that can freeze the sun, which is why i worry about coming on to most games forums because people always so go higher, get better, do eeeeeet! etc.

The IFX-14 for instance is nearly 60% more expensive than the 9500, for me, and the TRUE is 100%+ more expensive. I realise that they are GREAT coolers, but i think they are overkill for a mildly overclocked e8500.

Basically i'd like something that'd do the job adequetely, that's not over the top, and doesn't cost a lot of money, because i don't need the best, i dont even need 2nd best, something mid range will do fine. I thought the 9500 would be about perfect for the job, but if there are any suggestions around that price, that'd be good.

(It's hard to give prices, but i can get the 9500a for ~£45, and the 9700 for ~£55, with the IFX-14 costing more like ~£78. The TRUE is nearly £92 )

I've not been able to find a Noctua here so far (Israel)

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: Miganto
Thanks, a very helpful reply there I'll get this moved/make a new thread in the cooler section if people think it'd be a better idea. The post was initially about a cpu, but i have changed it to a cooler question i guess

I think the reviews i found were from at least 1 year ago, most were a bit more, but they were using the HSinks on c2d's, so i thought it best to get my info from there as it'd be the style of processor i'd use.

I also, as you said at the end, only want to do a very mild overclock, and don't want a huge over-the-top fan that can freeze the sun, which is why i worry about coming on to most games forums because people always so go higher, get better, do eeeeeet! etc.

The IFX-14 for instance is nearly 60% more expensive than the 9500, for me, and the TRUE is 100%+ more expensive. I realise that they are GREAT coolers, but i think they are overkill for a mildly overclocked e8500.

Basically i'd like something that'd do the job adequetely, that's not over the top, and doesn't cost a lot of money, because i don't need the best, i dont even need 2nd best, something mid range will do fine. I thought the 9500 would be about perfect for the job, but if there are any suggestions around that price, that'd be good.

(It's hard to give prices, but i can get the 9500a for ~£45, and the 9700 for ~£55, with the IFX-14 costing more like ~£78. The TRUE is nearly £92 )

I've not been able to find a Noctua here so far (Israel)

That's interesting . . . . for this little specialty market for coolers. I checked again at the (US-California) Heatsinkfactory web-site. I hadn't seen this before, but they are now bundling the TRUE with its own fan. When I bought mine, it was about $50. HSF wants more like $70 for the bundle.

As I said, a lot of the heat problem is from voltage. With the E8500, I'm just guessing that you shouldn't need a voltage setting that yields an actual load voltage of 1.25 to 1.26V under stress-testing -- to get stability at a speed of 3.8 Ghz. For that, it may actually be the case that the stock cooler might just work, but I don't follow a marginalist approach with this. The Zalman should work fine, I'm sure.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Xigmatek HDT-S1283
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835233003

Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835207004

 

[Miganto]

Thanks, like you, i don't want to 'just about be ok' as the summers here can get hot, and i'd need to have a little extra 'oomph' to counter that. When i was first looking, i thought the zal was low end, but it seems to be mid-high end. I've heard nothing but good reviews about this cooler from the old reviews, and they were being tested on the same processor type that i'll be using, and the numbers looked good. I might even be able to get something a little cheaper that'll be good enough, as the reviews were mostly using extreme versions, and sometimes quads, and it was still cooling just fine.

I'll give it a couple more days to see if any other 'non extreme' people reply

Thanks for all your help BD!


(Reply to COBoy; I haven't been able to find any Xigmatek or Sunbeams either unfortunately It seems like there's only the major companys from a few years back around here, but i'll be off to Tel Aviv soon to check if the major stores there have any of these 'newer' brands. PS - isn't a 120mm huge block like that a bit....OTT for my needs?)

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: Miganto
Thanks, like you, i don't want to 'just about be ok' as the summers here can get hot, and i'd need to have a little extra 'oomph' to counter that. When i was first looking, i thought the zal was low end, but it seems to be mid-high end. I've heard nothing but good reviews about this cooler from the old reviews, and they were being tested on the same processor type that i'll be using, and the numbers looked good. I might even be able to get something a little cheaper that'll be good enough, as the reviews were mostly using extreme versions, and sometimes quads, and it was still cooling just fine.

I'll give it a couple more days to see if any other 'non extreme' people reply

Thanks for all your help BD!


(Reply to COBoy; I haven't been able to find any Xigmatek or Sunbeams either unfortunately It seems like there's only the major companys from a few years back around here, but i'll be off to Tel Aviv soon to check if the major stores there have any of these 'newer' brands. PS - isn't a 120mm huge block like that a bit....OTT for my needs?)

Before I had my Noctua, I installed a TR Ultima-90 on what was then an E8400 system, and it was perfectly fine. For the same reason, the Zal CNPS-9500 would also work. Part of the reason for coolers fitted for 120mm fans is noise-reduction. But the Zalman products are oriented toward noise-reduction, and there are a lot of good 92mm fans available for coolers like the Ultima 90. The latter is even bundled with spare parts for fitting a 120mm fan to what is otherwise a cooler designed for 92mm.

Hats off to COBoy; I forgot to mention the Sunbeam [which has good reviews -- enough to make it at least equal to the TRUE, even if they were posted at FrostyTech].

As for your country's prevailing climate: Probably not too different than here in So-Cal. We don't flip on the household AC until the thermometer is close to 80F (27C ?) indoors. There is an almost-1-to-1 linear correspondence between room-ambient differentials and increases in CPU/motherboard sensor readings -- Graysky (I think) explores that issue in a forum thread (maybe under "Cases and Cooling.) If I can't stress-test at 80F and room-ambient is more like 73, I usually extrapolate what IntelBurnTest would yield under warmer conditions.

 

[Miganto]

Aye, hot days in our summers can be up to 95-100F, and we don't have AC here at the moment....maybe i should be buying that instead of the PC, huh?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: Miganto
Aye, hot days in our summers can be up to 95-100F, and we don't have AC here at the moment....maybe i should be buying that instead of the PC, huh?

Depends on your indoor temperatures before it starts to cool down in the evening.

You always have the option of developing two over-clock settings: one for summer, and one for winter. Your "hot days" aren't much different than our hot days. Last year or the year before, we had outdoor temps to 110F. Without the interior AC, I can't be sure whether the indoor temps would've stayed below 80 or 85F.

Anyway, look at it from this perspective. If you stress-test the system with Linpack or IntelBurnTest at 75F, and your OC settings (including the VCORE voltage) don't push the peak temperature beyond 70 or 72C, you are likely NEVER to reach those temperatures during normal usage. PRIME95 multi-core version doesn't even push my E8600 past 51C for Blend-Test; it would stay below 60C for the Small-FFT [CPU-intensive] test.

So you could probably have some wiggle room for your maximum over-clock if you can keep interior temperatures below 85+F.

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Xigmatek HDT-S1283
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835233003

Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835207004

I also recommend these. also good are the zalman cpns 9700 & thermalright ultra 120

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: jaredpace

Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Xigmatek HDT-S1283
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835233003

Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835207004

I also recommend these. also good are the zalman cpns 9700 & thermalright ultra 120

You're not the first! You must be pressed for time, since CoinOperatedBoy threw those into the fire. :laugh:

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

For what it's worth, I have a TRUE w/ a single 120mm Scythe fan. It's a very, very good cooler, but I had issues with its backplate shorting out my mobo. I wrapped the backplate with electrical tape and haven't had any more problems. I paid $60 for it and I'd say it's been worth it. I think if I had to buy a cooler today, I'd go with one of the two I linked above.

Consider just going with the Zalman 9700, since it's available to you. It's not a bad cooler by any means. Also look for the Scythe Ninja / Scythe Infinity and Tuniq Tower.

 

[Tempered81]

Ive owned the true and CCF. the performed the same for me pretty much - mind you i did lap the true. i paid more for the true, and it didnt come with a fan or fan controller, yet felt much sturdier than the sunbeam ccf.